Organising a gifted and talented group

[diazeki17]

Hello everyone,
I am interested in starting a gifted and talented group for children aged 5-7 in central London. I have two children who are in Mensa but unfortunately, mensa events and communities are for their adult members. Obviously, I do not mind if your kids are in Mensa or not, but if you feel that your kids are working above their age group and are gifted, please drop me a message. The hope is that it would be a relaxed group where we could organise trips and fun enriching activities that will continue to nurture their love of learning.

As the parent of a G&T child I would encourage you to place less focus on their intelligence and more of them doing activities which spark the child in them.

My child ate a worm the other day. She went through the thought process as to why this was a good idea. Great protein source. She hadn’t had any that day. This is a child who tests off the scale for her age group. Plus she’s five. I guess it goes with the territory.

@Zodlebud I have made this group for kids age 5-7 in the IQ range of my children firstly because my children already show a preference for older children and hold discussions with adults. I wanted to have people their own age as I did not want them growing up too fast. Secondly, I researched why their preference exists, and the Hollingworth Communication Range offered an excellent reason hence my current predicament. You have assumed that I am centred on solely their intelligence, but I am trying my best to provide them with a balanced childhood.

I also believe that you did not read my post, I stated that I was interested in organising trips and fun activities.

Furthermore, even if I were to nurture my children's intelligence, this would still be in their best interest. You can read the research to demonstrate this my.vanderbilt.edu/smpy/files/2013/01/DoingPsychScience2006.pdf.

If you are not interested in having a community for gifted learners, then please don't comment. In America, Canada, New Zealand and various countries such groups and communities are organised for younger children.

@Zodlebud I have made this group for kids age 5-7 in the IQ range of my children firstly because my children already show a preference for older children and hold discussions with adults. I wanted to have people their own age as I did not want them growing up too fast. Secondly, I researched why their preference exists, and the Hollingworth Communication Range offered an excellent reason hence my current predicament. You have assumed that I am centred on solely their intelligence, but I am trying my best to provide them with a balanced childhood.

I also believe that you did not read my post, I stated that I was interested in organising trips and fun activities.

Furthermore, even if I were to nurture my children's intelligence, this would still be in their best interest. You can read the research to demonstrate this my.vanderbilt.edu/smpy/files/2013/01/DoingPsychScience2006.pdf.

If you are not interested in having a community for gifted learners, then please don't comment. In America, Canada, New Zealand and various countries such groups and communities are organised for younger children

My child has struggled socially because of her intelligence and maturity - you can search for my post on the matter. In setting up a group that purely addresses the G&T aspect for joining in the first place is what would make me avoid it like the plague.

You can address their learning needs without having them tested for MENSA or creating special groups for them. I wasn’t saying it in a negative way and apologise if you have taken it as such.

If you want your child not to grow up too fast, best thing you can do is to encourage friendship with their peers, regardless of their IQ, imo.

@Zodlebud
'The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius.' Oscar Wilde

I understand where you're coming from and I hope your little one is ok. My children are acutely aware of their abilities, and I encourage them to be confident in their abilities. The fact remains that they are profoundly gifted and according to the research I mentioned earlier, being surrounded by like-minded individuals is the best way to establish and maintain relationships. For now, I am on the search to provide them with a safe environment where they have individuals that understand the struggle of being G&T.

@irvineoneohone- I understand what you mean, and I do encourage that by organising play dates with classmates and family. You also have to take into consideration that my children love to discuss why they prefer cubism as an art form which a majority of 5-year-olds would not understand. They often feel out of place, and as I already stated, when they make friends in school and are invited to birthday parties they prefer children 2 to 3 years older, and they organise those themselves.

Your quote is the exact problem we face.

There are also numerous studies based on the US system where children skip grades to meet their academic needs but then suffer significantly in terms of social aspects.

My main focus for my DD is helping her understand why people her age are still interested in “baby games” (her words) and not the stuff she is interested in. At the end of the day she needs to be able to relate to and interact with her peers. She may well prefer the company of adults or other like minded children but it really doesn’t do her any favours.

She hasn’t been OK. There have been a lot of tears (both her and mine). Her needs are fitting in with the general population but in her own way. It doesn’t prevent us from addressing her intellectual needs. I just want for you to be mindful of potentially isolating your children.

If they are Home educated and you mix in like minded circles then it’s not an issue. If you are in the normal U.K. education system like we are then it’s been painful and emotional. The school meets her needs. We meet her extra curricular needs. Socially there has been a void and I guess this is what you are trying to address.

The worm eating was a huge turning point. She got massive respect from her classmates. Probably for all the wrong reasons, but it has resulted in a real change in the way her peers perceived her.

Don’t underestimate the power of fitting in, even if you do it in your own quirky little way.

@ Zodlebud Again you are missing the point, my children's needs come first they are not to force themselves to 'fit in', your comment is quite contradicting because you seek uniqueness yet you give weight to the whole notion of 'fitting in'. Your tone indicates that you have not read any of the research I mentioned above as they have stated no such damage to social aspects when it comes to accelerating gifted children. Furthermore, do remember that once our kids turn 16, they will be a lot more mixed as the real world is not based on age. I have created this group as I have reviewed extensive research on this subject matter. You mention research from the US, you have not provided it, and I hope you're not generalising and can it be compared to the longitudinal studies I have provided that has concrete evidence on the issue?
You have adopted the attitudes and beliefs commonly held in the UK towards G&T kids to the point that the UK is behind in researching G&T kids, countless of research carried out in other western countries side with the Hollingworth Communication Range. G&T children are alienated continuously, love them for who they are, they should not be forced to fit in and made to understand others when no one understands them, they need a team too, this is potentially what I am trying to organise. I am sure your friends today are based on your preference and interests, I am trying to do this for my children.
You claim Oscar Wilde's quote is part of the problem we face. However, it is individuals like you that would disregard 35 years of sound data on this matter. You have nothing to say; I bid you farewell, you parent your way, I parent my way. This group is not for everyone, and that's the point. I do suggest you research further, and I recommend the following starting points.

www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/ND_v1.pdf

A Nation Empowered: A Ten-Year Follow-up to the important Nation Deceived Report.
Edited by Susan G. Assouline, Nicholas Colangelo, Joyce VanTassel-Baska, and Ann Lupkowski Shoplik.

Likewise I do not need to validate my approach to parenting by backing it up with research papers, quotes from others or getting a score from MENSA. I follow my gut reaction and after an initial blip she is doing great. We both want the best for our children and are just going about it from opposite ends of the spectrum.

We shall agree to disagree on this one and I wish you and your family much happiness.

I think the kind of group you are looking for already exist within MN. When I started posting, I was invited to one of them through PM. I didn't join, since I don't live in London, and don't do FB.

Thank heavens my kids are both thick as mince!

(The majority of 5yos probably don't like Cubism because they have enough native sense to see that it's crap.)

OK--being serious, but restricting a group to "Gifted and talented" will probably just bring out the crazies, like irritatingly pushy parents with hot-housed but not especially interesting children. Why not just start up a group for "Families taking education outside the classroom" or something, and use that as a springboard for field trips, museum visits and the like?

@KoKeshi123 Firstly, there is no such thing as a 'pushy parent', that is the phrase coined to shame parents fully involved in their children's lives, and they hope to avert future struggles for their children. I suggest you read the research in this area. www.repository.cam.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1810/248712/Beauvais%202015%20Discourse.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
You also have generalised that gifted children are uninteresting, let me correct your notion by indicating you research past talented individuals as many musicians are gifted. To use my kids as an example, they are creative, funny, written short stories, comics, written jokes and their teachers have informed me that they are hilarious, opinionated young ladies. I am currently holding them back from making a youtube channel because they felt they have a lot to share (I believe they're too young for social media). There are also various traits in children, and all children are interesting in their own way.

Furthermore, I did not intend to defend my choice, a majority of these comments are removing from the aim of this group, I have the best interest of my children at heart, wanting kids their age with their abilities to reduce the time they already spend with older kids. I do not see why this is an issue.

P.S. both my kids taught themselves to read, I constantly feel exhausted trying to keep up with their learning demands as they request information both at home and at school. Their class teachers told me they have never seen anything like it, their ability to crave information and fact check the adults around them is dumbfounding.

“Parents of profoundly gifted children often feel isolated in seeking solutions to these and other life dilemmas. Even parents of moderately gifted children may not be able to give much advice, as the problems they face or the situations they are encountering bear little resemblance to the enormity of the issues as perceived by parents of the profoundly gifted.” from Profoundly gifted guilt (2001) by Jim Delisle

Please do not post unless you understand what I have to deal with as a parent of 2 profoundly gifted children.

Please do not post unless you understand what I have to deal with as a parent of 2 profoundly gifted children.

Actually, you'll find Mumsnet is a public forum where anyone is permitted to post on any thread as long as they are not deliberately trolling.

I don't think that genuinely gifted children are uninteresting at all, by the way--that's not what I said in my post. I said that a group which is ostensibly "for gifted children" will attract a lot of parents of children who don't have any talents that stick out a mile but whose parents have merely pushed them very hard. I know from my own experience that when you start a "group" for a certain type of people you have in mind, very often it attracts people who may not take the purpose of the group seriously or are just not right for it.

I don't run a G&T group. I do run a couple of English-oriented groups for parents (I live overseas and support English as my child's minority language at home, so we do an English literacy Saturday school, and also a "getting together" group where we do things like museum visits and craft sessions in English).

The focus of such groups is of course very different from a G&T group, but my own experience is that the best way to start is to start off with a couple of friends, and then gradually expand by word of mouth. You are better off starting with a small, tight group and then gradually getting bigger, rather than putting the word out far and wide and ending up with a whole bunch of "latchers-on" who don't share the vision of the group but want to come and hang out anyway, or are very low-commital and disturb the harmony of the group by only turning up occasionally (which will also make it harder to establish a settled rota for taking care of organizational tasks). It is a good idea to have some kind of rota (formal or inform) for organizing events and meetings once you get beyond a certain size, otherwise all the burden will fall on one person and exhaustion will cause the group to fold.

Even if you find a group of like-minded people, it is extremely important with these kinds of groups to be respectful of people's different parenting styles, and have enough flexibility to ensure that everyone feels comfortable taking part. Please don't take this the wrong way, but your posting style does come across as pretty dogmatic and "my way or the high way." If you want a group to survive and thrive, respect and good listening skills are key, as is a sense of humor and humility.

Please do not post unless you understand what I have to deal with as a parent of 2 profoundly gifted children.

Yes, a free space that anyone can post, but I would hope it would be useful. Your present response is more constructive than your first, which I appreciate; you took your time to share your experience in setting up mini groups. Had your first post been this way, my response would have matched. Also, I do not joke with the well being of my children, there is a time and place for that. Majority of posts are pointing out why this group doesn't work without offering any solutions.
Moreover, I have been relying on research already out there regarding G&T children and not solely on my gut feeling. I am aware of and respect all positive parenting styles.

It might be worth looking at what organisations like NAGC / Potential Plus are already doing (and have been doing for generations, as my brothers and I hugely benefited from one of their groups when we were young children)

I remember it with joy as being full of 'people like me' BUT doing all kinds of fun stuff (cookery, visits, games, talks) that wasn't necessarily 'intellectual / academic' .

I don't know if they still run groups, but I think it is companionship and ability to 'do pretty much age-appropriate but childish things, with like-minded peers' that will be important, not 'intellectual stretching' necessarily.

My brother has a mensa standard iq and was a startlingly intelligent child. My dd1 was selected as gifted and talented early in primary school. (Don't know what happened to me!) Both me and my mum never felt that there was any great hooha or drama in having kids like this and it didn't make them more special or exclusive than anyone else. Meh.

Your children might be considered as "profoundly gifted" in the state sector, but I can assure you that they're ten a penny in private schools.

I'm finding this whole thread vaguely farcical. Of course there are "pushy parents" - I spend a lot of my time around them!

Stop getting hung up on this G&T nonsense and just do what is best for your children.

Calling it a G&T group will put people right off. I automatically smirked when you mentioned mensa. Just start an 'art' group or 'scirnce' group or some such other. I wouldn't take my children to a G&T group outside if school where parents would self refer because I would assume the parents would be a bit stupid.

I reckon that this group will be a barrel of laughs. Will there be a number of research papers on how we should all be laughing?

Will there be a test to get in?

I reckon the Zod’s worm eating daughter sounds great!

@cantkeepawayforever, It because of individuals like you that I put this post up. I am very grateful for your kind help, I shall look into what you have mentioned, the activities you stated sound great and exactly what I am looking for.
Many Thanks.

OP. If you want to improve your children's relationships with their peers then concentrate on activities where everyone is coming to it as a new thing: Scouting and Girlguides for example are very inclusive, offer a mix of activities including new experiences, and are very much aimed at everyone working together. Was this the kind of endpoint you were thinking of?

I do not have 2 profoundly gifted children. I had one profoundly gifted child whose ASD traits became obvious only during the preteen years engendering significant social problems. As parents we need to try and help in all areas.

If you want to set up a group where there are more people like yourself as a support/social group then that is a different issue. Can your children's school recommend a starting point?

@ILookedintheWater Thank you very much for your help, I have asked the school, but there is not much that they offer, the school has accelerated them in most areas, and they are friends with kids in older age groups, which I am not much in favour of. I shall look into Scouting and Girlguide as you have so kindly mentioned. I want them to have fun with their peer group and have friendships they value and wouldn't have to change who they are or fit in for.

I would also investigate whether there are specific activities which your children would like and which would enable them to mix with others who are dedicated / interested in that particular area on the basis of their mutual interest rather than purely by age.

Music, classical dance, gymnastics, Lego [and similar] modelling, the slightly 'quirkier' end of sport like fencing or even odd things like bellringing or orienteering can be really good as many require concentration / focus / dedication and have a strong element of progression, which often appeals to the very able.