Organising a gifted and talented group

[diazeki17]

Hello everyone,
I am interested in starting a gifted and talented group for children aged 5-7 in central London. I have two children who are in Mensa but unfortunately, mensa events and communities are for their adult members. Obviously, I do not mind if your kids are in Mensa or not, but if you feel that your kids are working above their age group and are gifted, please drop me a message. The hope is that it would be a relaxed group where we could organise trips and fun enriching activities that will continue to nurture their love of learning.

I am heartily thankful neither mine or my DH's
parents did these groups with us when we were little. They actively discouraged niche activities for the sake of it which was a jolly good thing, looking back.

Both of us have very high IQs, my DH's significantly higher than mine (think an absolute outlier). But thankfully neither of us were allowed to express any sort of precocious nonsense when we were little.

Since we have grown up, we have through our work come across a variety of children, teenagers and adults who are also either gifted or talented. We also have very intelligent children of our own. We talk to them about their interests, although I am now sadly disappointed neither of them ate a worm when they were little 😂 and will support them going on to Oxford or Cambridge if that is what is the right course for them. They are much older than your children.

But the key skills I have always taught them is flexibility of mind, hard consistent work, an attitude welcoming of change and development, absolute ability to find a way to get along with ANY child or adult and most importantly not acting like an utter prick and embarrassing someone else when they know the right answer and the other person doesn't. Most of the last bit is probably learning from example, and watching me/DH be patient when a waiter mucks up the bill or a friend can't grasp something we got instantly. I don't mean condescending and obvious patience either, but never ever ever ever ever showing anyone else up. I remember once being astounded at an acquaintance who got her son to show off at a pizza express and recite the bill to the waiter. It's not cute, it's not charming, it's just vulgar and unnecessary.

Seriously OP, the best thing you can do is can this nonsense and treat your children like children. Like all children they have different strengths and weaknesses, and will
grow and develop in new and interesting ways you simply can't imagine now at age 5 to 7. Have you seen the opening of the stage show Matilda? While I wouldn't advocate to be like Matilda's parents 😆, being left alone to read and think is much better than being treated as "special" by parents.

Currently at school when offered free play time they prefer puzzles. What type of parent would I be if I do not cater to their need?

A good parent! That's what you'd be.

I'd have told my children off at that age if they'd complained that a indoor playground was "painful" or they found their friends, and their choice of games unpalatable.

What becomes of all these highly gifted and talented children? I mean in latter life. What sort of careers do they pursue?

*later life

You can tell that I clearly wasn't gifted or talented

@GinAndToast Unfortunately, that is not my parenting style; I do not tell my DD's how to think and feel and they are very well behaved, and they get compliments on how polite they are. We tend to go over their emotions and explore reasons why they feel a certain way. They do not show up learners even though they get to teach some older children as they are accelerated, they are kind and considerate people as I and my DH have always modelled for them. They lead their learning and can grasp complex ideas; I am sure they know their interests.

I have never met a child so gifted they need special groups. I have met parents who think they do, but it usually subsides by pre-teenage when the influence of extreme pushing is lower.

For what it is worth OP - I would probably have been regarded as "gifted" when I was a child - although this terminology I don't like at all (late summer birthday, , but was accelerated at 7 up a year.) My general activities included playing with my friends (very unstructured) /swimming/brownies & guides. It didn't stop me achieving what I have today.

“but when I organise playdates with kids their age, they tell me it was a painful experience and express their boredom“

Maybe some work on social skills?

My DC is not profoundly gifted but is above the 99th%. Scouts was difficult until my DC was old enough for Cubs, as the age group and the activities were too young. DC has loved Cubs and Scouts though (is now almost 12). I wish I'd just waited and put them into Cubs once they were old enough, but I understand with waiting lists that might not be an option.

I agree that @paxillin is correct and nobody needs special groups. Not even Cambridge maths wizzes. Especially not them actually. It would be terribly bad for them!

Ironically, the children who would benefit most from specific little groups pushing academic achievement is never going to be the ones who are naturally more advanced for their age.

What children do need however is parenting. No five to seven year old knows what their interests really are, they only know what they have so far been exposed to by you and school. That's it. They have years of maturity to come.

I'd also have a firm word with school and stop them being encouraged to teach older children.

This is a mad idea. Singling out children at such a young age as special and then in a few years they might be little better than average. It'll be full of dreadful people who think their child is gifted. And they're probably not.

Never have I been so grateful that my children were academically 'average' at school as I am reading this post. Both grew up to have great careers and more importantly have a healthy social life and circle of friends. It's difficult to see who is truly gifted and talented at such a young age.

This is a good podcast on PG the1a.org/shows/2018-01-02/rated-pg-profoundly-gifted

Gifted is such a misnomer, it ain’t no gift.

I am amazed at how brilliant Tim Minchin's lyrics are. Now he really is gifted/talented 😆

I was a Mensa member as a child with a very high IQ. I’m a pretty average but happy adult. I decided myself as a teen to not push myself which I know may sound lazy but I realised I was happiest not at academic full pelt. I actually found it stressful among other children and teens classed as ‘intelligent’ because I felt as though I needed to be more competitive than I was. I could tell I was becoming someone known for intellect rather than for anything else that made me me. I didn’t want to always talk about politics or literature but it started to be that that’s what people thought I’d want to talk about. I didn’t. I wanted to talk about Take That mostly.

I’m not sure what my point is...maybe that whilst some may find comfort in being anongst those of similar academic ability, others may find it restrictive.

I was thinking, while away from this thread, how differently we treat children who are gifted academically, and those who are talented in other fields.

(I will refer here to academics, music, dance and football, as those are things I have personal knowledge of)

If the OP had come and said ' I have two children who are showing great musical talent and play their instruments to a surprisingly high level for their ages - I'm looking for some groups and opportunities for them to be with other musicians of their age / ability' - the thread would have been as overflowing with support and ideas as the music thread on Extracurricular Activities always is. Nobody's first response would have been 'No, don't let them do any more music - it must all be about making friends with normal children.' There would have been an acceptance that children who do music well spend a lot of time doing it, and naturally make friends with the children they meet who have the same interest.

Similarly, if OP had said 'My DCs are showing great aptitude at ballet', she would have received advice about good local dance schools, junior associates etc - and again, there would have been an acceptance that a child who loves and is great at dance will spend many hours dancing, and socialising, with their dancing friends.

Same with football. IME when DS was part of a professional club's Academy, nobody said 'Don't play any extra football; spend that time making friends with non-footballing children'. It was all about what great friends he made within his various teams.

However, when it comes to academic ability, and children with interests that fall under the 'academic' banner - Maths, Science, Coding etc - somehow it is seen as 'wrong' for a child to spend any more time on it than they have to at school, and they mustn't join any clubs of that type, and they musn't seek to find others with the same interest because it is more valuable to 'meet a wide variety of people'.

Why it is different if a child's 'thing' is Maths or writing stories from if it is Music or Dance or Football?

I have never met a child so gifted they need special groups

I have met many musicians, dancers and footballers so gifted that they needed special groups.

I have met some extremely isolated academic outliers, who work very hard to keep up their 'I am normal really' armour, and have loved opportunities to take it off - while the dancers,. footballers and musicians get to take off their 'I am normal' armour every night in groups designed just for them.

I would also say it depends on the academic provision for outliers in their schooling.

It has always seemed to me to be a parent's job to try to match 'their child's needs' to their experience across all parts of their day - school, home, extracurricular activities. This can be by seeking out complementary extracurricular activities separate from school, as well as by the obvious food / sleep / relaxation / socialisation.

If school provision for outliers is good, then extra-curricular time is much more sensibly spent on non-academic (or non core academic - music, PE etc) activities for socialisation and breadth. However, if school is providing well for socialisation and breadth but less well for academic needs, then it seems entirely reasonable that a parent might seek academically stimulating extracurricular activities.

Poor social skills and difficulties in relating to and forming positive relationships with peers are valid concerns, op, so I see why you need to take some action to help your children here- however, I don't think your 'gifted and talented children only' group idea is a good one. If anything, it will make the problems your children have worse.

I have met many musicians, dancers and footballers so gifted that they needed special groups.
Special groups in which to socialise? Really? Who is so gifted a musician, dancer or footballer that it prevents them from socialising with people who are not similarly gifted?

Mostdays, well, the groups aren't PRIMARILY to socialise, but they are where musicians, dancers and footballers meet their peers, and IME have their strongest social relationships.

@cantkeepawayforever I have in my own family dancers and musicians of elite quality, as well as a fair few that went to Oxford and Cambridge, etc.

My advice for ANY parent of a child aged five to seven with any special talent and ability remains exactly the same whether it is academic or artistic. Aged five to seven is a bonkers time to treat anybody as particularly special or to encourage them to think that will remain for the rest of their lives, or in fact be something they even want to do later.

Fwiw, my friends who are professional sportsmen, my friend who is an opera singer, my friend who got the top scholarship to the RCM at 18, my friend who is in a ballet company all were consciously kept normal by their parents.

They are where those gifted children are 'normal', and meet children 'like them'. Is it any wonder that they are also where they form many of their strongest friendships? That's all the OP wants for her children. She has expressed it clumsily, and in fact there are already groups that might meet her children's needs, but her desire for her children to have like minded friends is not of itself extreme or unusual.

We are all talking about 5-7 year olds here, right? Infant school aged children do not need to wear any 'I am normal really' armour.

Very few who walk aged 10 months, do sums aged 2 or are free readers aged 5 end up doing any of those any better than their peers once older. They just hit a milestone a bit earlier, that's all. This is like starting a G&T group for early crawlers so they get to feel normal.

Ah, my similar friends and relatives are as 'not normal' as I am 'not normal', but we are very, very good at putting on our 'normal armour'.