Organising a gifted and talented group

[diazeki17]

Hello everyone,
I am interested in starting a gifted and talented group for children aged 5-7 in central London. I have two children who are in Mensa but unfortunately, mensa events and communities are for their adult members. Obviously, I do not mind if your kids are in Mensa or not, but if you feel that your kids are working above their age group and are gifted, please drop me a message. The hope is that it would be a relaxed group where we could organise trips and fun enriching activities that will continue to nurture their love of learning.

The thing about 'they much prefer to converse with adults' is that many of those adults find those children incredibly boring.

@2Tails I agree with you; the thread is insensitive. I am sorry you have had to witness people so insensitively put down DC with ASD and downplay their achievements as being just ASD. I too am disheartened at their attitudes. ASD is not the problem, these kind of people are. Sending lots of love to you and your DC .

I think it's really obvious there's a subsection of Gifted children who have ASD , recognised by their families or otherwise and actually all the opportunities to socialise are just bloody stressful and the opposite of fun.

Id have loved to find my tribe at 5 - no idea why a pp would insist on me waiting til the teenage years. Instead I sat alone in libraries, no one knowing what to do with me, aced everything I tried academically but had no direction at all. Because no one would recognise it.

Plus if I'd read correctly a pp is also suggesting talented children don't get any input until the teenage years? Surely not? If you wait til them for something like dance or music you are significantly disadvantaged. I think I've read that wrong. My 12 year old now has an agent having developed his theatre skills from three, progressing through various groups and tuition. If we'd made him wait how would that work?

@thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts do you have any tips for setting up this type of group since NAGC don't run them anymore? Thanks

@Brokenbiscuit that is an excellent point you make about participating in something where a child is average at best in. Brilliant tip there!

OP, you are ignoring everyone who doesn't agree with you, which is a shame.

And YYY to the reply just now about adults finding kids like this boring. They often do 😂 I've come across such know it all little shits who try and be clever about my specialist subjects. There's a line between being a curious intellectually advanced child for their age who asks questions... and being just annoying. It's not their fault when it's encouraged and fawned over by their parents 😔

There is something quite disconcerting in the op's disinclination to engage.

@diazeki17 the current educational term is 'more able' or 'most able' not gifted and talented which is a very outdated term.

Having a child who was 'more able' all the way through her school career, the out of school activity she enjoyed the most was one at which she did not excel, but was at the same level as her peers (ballet in her case).

It helped her understand how others might feel about academic work and helped her relate with other children.
She also did extra-curricular activities she did excel in, but ballet taught her a lot of vital social skills.

@GinAndToast I made the thread for the sole purpose of getting the group started, I am not obligated to respond to all comments. You glance over some severe experiences that individuals who can relate to my DD's and had the opportunity thanks to NAGC to have such a group. I am looking for those who can relate. Most negative comments are base on personal beliefs which can be damning and fail to consider the wealth of research in this area.

Furthermore, all those that make unhelpful comments can't be so certain unless they know my DD's and our situation as Cantkeepawayforever had stated. I do not put my DD's up to anything yet they do ask me why people suffer, how can we help poor people and keen on environmental issues. People do often forget their age, in fact, parents in their school assume they are older as they are very tall to go with all of this (thanks to DH being 6ft 3inch). Young children are having much of political debate in America so let's not try to knock down inquisitive children.

Moreover, I do not take kindly to insulting kids of any kind, inquisitive ones included. My DD's teachers are undoubtedly happy to provide the information in a positive nurturing environment. Attitudes like your would have never cultivated brilliant, inquisitive minds.

I've come across such know it all little shits who try and be clever about my specialist subjects. They are kids. You are the grown up. Fair enough that you get bored by smart kids talking about your (?) specialist subject but it is you who has being intolerant, which is fine but not something I'd be bragging about, personally. It sounds unkind.

Brokenbiscuit thank you for clarifying. I just get incredibly frustrated by some people's attitudes to children with diagnosed or suspected ASD. It is the most awful experience to 'not belong' and involuntarily alienate other people by coming across in the 'wrong' way and not having the ability to easily change these behaviours. We try, and fail, try and fail and I hope that in the process of trying to teach my dc social skills so they don'tt annoy people they don't end up feeling their inner being is just plain wrong because they have already started noticing that there is something different about them that doesn't come across well. And these are children who are the most lovely people when you take the time to look past their slightly irritating habits, which come out especially when they feel stressed or anxious. I suppose all I am saying is that it would mean so much if other grown ups were a little more generous in trying to see past some of the quirks and give my dc a chance. They are truly lovely people. But I'll stop derailing now.

OP I don't know why NAGC stopped doing the clubs and it might be worth talking to them as it might be an insurance issue or the need to be a charity and all the governance and safeguarding requirements that entails. If you are going to be more than a few friends taking your children out together you will have to think this through.

In practical terms found it hard to get people to commit to doing stuff so I'd put a lot of effort into something like a backstage theatre visit/day at the local sea life centre with added experts/meet a mathematician and 2 families would turn up on the day. This was before social media and email so getting the word out and reminding people was different then. You need a critical mass of people to make it work and that might get you into charity governance issues.

Not much help I'm afraid.

OP, if you think it may suit, I would get them both on a waiting list for Cubs ASAP. If your 7 year old is 7 1/2 she could start this term if there was a place available.

cantkeepaway that's so funny. Yes, the newsletters were squirrelled away where I wouldn't see them, and the group was only ever referred to as "Saturday club" - nobody ever mentioned the words gifted, IQ, NAGC etc in my hearing in case I got ideas :-).

Back to the thread.... It's a shame that the NAGC/Potential Plus groups are no more but I suppose they were of their time. Potential Plus might offer you a route to finding like-minded parents in the same boat, though, OP, and you could then progress to meet-ups - on a scale, at least initially, that didn't trigger administrative and insurance issues, to test the water?

More general observation but I detect in many of the comments upthread a tendency to conflate "gifted" with "academic achievement". They really don't always go together. Some high-achieving children will be bright and diligent and highly-motivated, but not gifted. Others will be like me, outliers but almost accidentally high-achieving (straight A's, Oxbridge starred First etc) having coasted and daydreamed in class and tried to blend into the background as much as possible. Then there's people like my DH, who left school at 16 with few qualifications and what was later assessed as a reading age of 12, because nobody had noticed either his dyslexia or his giftedness. Thankfully he had a full ed psych assessment a couple of years later, in time for him to return to education and turn his life around, but was he still a "gifted child" through his school years, given that he was bottom of the class? To misquote Stephanie Tolan, hell yes he was still a cheetah. "Giftedness" isn't academic performance and achievement (as we all too often define it), it's an unusual mind.

Meeting the needs of gifted children shouldn't be a zero sum game of prioritising their emotional/social development OR their intellectual curiosity. Both need feeding. Good luck, OP.

Oh and I had positive experiences of Guiding as a child too, OP, so would second all the recommendations to try Guiding/Scouting. Worth remembering that units are all run by volunteers and culture and focus of activities varies according to available resources and the interests of the children and adult leaders, so it's worth visiting a couple to find the best fit for your children and then get them on the relevant waiting lists.

@2Tails not intolerant or unkind, just very very very sorry for them and the way they have been encouraged to act. I probably go out of my way to be kind in fact (even though I am quietly bored 😏) as they have their parents to deal with. As I explained way back, it's not something I did when parenting young children as I don't think it's cute or clever. Answering interesting questions from naturally bright un hothoused children who aren't trying to make out they know more than they do is always much less boring!

@diazeki17 it's a shame you don't want to debate. Coming to a subject with an open mind is really important I think. Even though I feel happy about the way I parented my own very advanced five to seven year olds at the time, I have been really keen to talk and interact with people who have done differently, and who felt differently about it all. That sort of flexibility and understanding is really important I think. I am really interested in talking to people like @cantkeepawayforever etc, as their experiences have been different to mine and I am keen to understand them. That's the way everybody grows in knowledge.

I am still very much erring towards just supplying a well rounded curriculum though, and just encouraging reading. Learning to be bored is great. Learning you are not good at everything is brilliant. Working on social skills and normal childhood games is fantastic. Not being encouraged to think you are an outlier (at five) is I think the best way.

When your dc exceed the age range for the group you are setting up, does that mean that they will no longer be able to attend your group, or is the age range of the group fluid? ie always the same age as your dc.

If the latter, is it just that you are looking friends for your dc?

@OhYouBadBadKitten Yes looking for friends for my DC's in their age group but ones with their interests I guess. I haven't worked out the nitty gritty of it all.

What about exploring the idea of a young art appreciation club, or something similar then? If you had a broader age range then you might be able to link up with one of the art galleries. From there you might find your girls make friends with those with similar interests.

If you kept it as a g&t club then you would end up possibly with members who don't share your girls interests. My dd had no interest in art and little in the eco/social affairs at that age. She had other intense interests. Like all children interests vary hugely according to personality.

If you are looking for friends who have similar interest to your dcs interests, the group don't need to be closed only for gifted or high IQ children, aren't they? Especially, the children of such a advanced knowledge, it must be quite difficult to find match for their exact level and interest. Isn't it a lot better to start a group for children who are really intersted in art/history/ science, etc?

Oops, cross posted with OhYou, totally agree with her.

GinAndToast I see where you are coming from. I am focusing v much on my personal experience here (sorry) and I do find it so painful for my dc and our family to be judged by people who don't know that we have ASD traits. I just stings time and time again when you know your dc are doing their best and are left puzzled by the general rules of engagement but we have a lot to be grateful for too.

Actually the current term is HLP (higher learning potential).
My son has SN as well as HLP and it is a constant juggling act. We are bouncing between doctors and the senco and then to his teacher and it is tiring for all involved. Over time it is becoming more and more obvious that he is different from his peers in both his Sen and his HLP.
An ASD diagnosis can be a PITA to get and we are two years on in our search for answers for ds as he has no real behavioural issues other than the non stop talking and sensory issues and that is partly down to another issue he has a diagnosis for.
Tbh for lots of these kids school is a minefield for both parent and child. I am trying to sort out harder work for him so he doesn’t switch off and also trying to get the adjustments he needs at the other end so he can access the curriculum and so he is getting punished for behaviour that is part of his SEN by teachers who are too busy to look at his official doctors reports.

At our school the g and t groups only start in yr3 and he is in yr1 atm and looking at the curriculum for next year and the sats he can already do all of it now for two areas (maths and reading) but will struggle with the writing part.

@Tomorrowillbeachicken Thank you for sharing your intimate experience on this thread. I admire your strength. Do you have any support groups in your local area?
Unfortunately, the NC can be quite restrictive but it sounds as though you are doing your best. Feel free to pm me if you feel like there you ever want to chat.

P.s. I don't know if you saw my post about Kids hour in Apple (completely free), my DD's love that.

@Ceara

Meeting the needs of gifted children shouldn't be a zero-sum game of prioritising their emotional/social development OR their intellectual curiosity. Both need feeding.

I agree with you. Many assume once you are gifted, then it's all about 30 years down the line and being the next big thing. That is too much pressure for any child, not to talk about adults. My DD's are people first. I shall be signing them up for Scouts. Many thanks.