Organising a gifted and talented group

[diazeki17]

Hello everyone,
I am interested in starting a gifted and talented group for children aged 5-7 in central London. I have two children who are in Mensa but unfortunately, mensa events and communities are for their adult members. Obviously, I do not mind if your kids are in Mensa or not, but if you feel that your kids are working above their age group and are gifted, please drop me a message. The hope is that it would be a relaxed group where we could organise trips and fun enriching activities that will continue to nurture their love of learning.

Little big planet?

@Tomorrowillbeachicken Its a creative PlayStation 4 game that gets them to problem solve.

Hmm. I went to a meet-up for parents and gifted children when dd was little, organised through NAGC. It was actually suggested by dd's nursery - they had been researching options as they had never come across a child quite like her. The group met regularly. I hated it the first time but thought I should persevere, so I went a couple more times. Then decided that it was not for me.

I found the group to be full of pushy parents (believe me, they do exist!) and children with rather poorly developed social skills. When talking to the parents, it was clear that they put their children's poor social skills down to their "giftedness". In some cases, I suspect that ASD was also part of the mix, although this wasn't explicitly stated in my hearing. In other cases, I think the parents were just so focused on their child's academic brilliance that they had forgotten to invest in helping their child to develop good social skills. In a few very sad cases, it actually seemed that the parents were perversely proud of their kids' inability to relate effectively to other children - almost as if that was a badge that proved their inherent superiority. These were the parents who liked to make out that giftedness was a terrible burden.

I don't see it like that. I get that some gifted children may be socially awkward (like some non-gifted children) and I suppose that having a group of socially awkward kids who are all in the same boat does provide a ready-made group of friends who are likely to share some similar interests. So maybe there are some benefits, but these are only really relevant for those children who are both gifted and lacking in social skills. Personally, I feel that it would be far more beneficial to those children if the parents were to invest in building their social skills with ordinary kids in their peer group.

It is worth pointing out that some profoundly gifted children don't have any social difficulties at all - on the contrary, some are lucky enough to be gifted socially as well as academically, with the ability to relate to just about anyone. A more valuable gift than academic intelligence, in my view. These children are likely to have little to gain from a "gifted" group.

The parents at that kind of group are probably best avoided in my view, but again, it depends what you're looking for. If you like to swap notes on how to hothouse your child without appearing to do so how difficult it is to parent a gifted child, then it might be your scene.

@Brokenbiscuit Thank you for sharing your experience; it sounds like a nightmare. It sounds like my DD's music school where the kids are rude. As I had mentioned previously, I am lost in the best approach, but the thread has been helpful in suggesting alternative clubs for my DD's to attend. My DD's are kind and don't like rude people, so if that is all we have to look forward to, I would rather leave them to their older friends until I can get them into these extracurricular clubs.
Thanks.

Tbh in our case we are much better suited sending him to computer programming club than one for gifted kids.

@TheSistineMadeMeScream There seems to be a misunderstanding; my DD's are now aged 5 and 6. They have been assessed as profoundly gifted, each with an IQ in the 0.1%. They have reading ages of 10 and 11 respectively. They work at a mathematical level 3-4 years above their age. They are aware of their feelings, and these are extremely important for them. They currently establish friendships with brighter older kids, and I am worried about this.

@Tomorrowillbechicken - Scratch is free, also if you want more hands-on coding, then you should use Osmo coding, but you need an iPad for it. If you also have an Apple store near you, they do kids hour for coding and video making, however in my local one very few people attend.

@Brokenbiscuit you have hit the nail on the head. My comments about fitting in are not to change my daughter to be something she is not, but to help her find her place within her existing peer group.

This is something we all do throughout our lives - think about when you start a new job. You know the job is right for you but you do not get to chose who you work with. You are presented with a whole raft of different personalities, intellects and social circumstances.

In years to come I hope the worm eater has the job bit nailed. I would be doing her a disservice to not prepare her for the diversity of the real world.

The suggestions regarding the Guiding and Scouting movement are brilliant. My daughter goes to a drama group and gets a similar vibe. It has done her so much good.

@Zodlebud You gravitate towards the negative experiences after disregarding research because of anecdotal gut feeling as you stated. If you read correctly through the thread, @Cantkeepawayforever spoke extensively about the advantage of having a hang out with like-minded individuals once in a while. Moreover, what works for your DD is entirely different to my DD's. I am pleased that this thread gets the conversation started and like I said these groups exist in other parts of the world. While a lot of the groups may not be perfect, I am sure not all of them are bad.

I am reading from what you have put that you think he has been mentally disadvantaged.

interesting. He was very significantly affected by being an outlier in his specific environment - our local village school, which turned out to be going through something of a bad patch. The effect was not so much 'academic disadvantage' as symptoms that would, in an adult, be seen as mental illness - extreme anxiety, many of the tics and traits normally associated with ASD (he was not diagnosed, and now presents as neurotypical - these seem to have been symptoms of anxiety), selective mutism.

As a result of this - the acute phase lasted for months, the ongoing effects for years - we sought something rather different for him than we would have done had he never been through that experience. We have sought 'near peers' for him in a nurturing environment, and perhaps pushed extracurricular activities with strong supportive peer groups (first sport, now music) rather than focusing on the development of his academic attainment.

What do I wish we had done differently? Provided him with peers, and near peers, from the start - either in school or through a group of children he could have taken his guard down with as being 'like him'. It would simply have taken living in the community that we live in now, but some years earlier, as he is not an outlier 'in a highly able population', just an extreme outlier 'in the specific population he found himself in'.

I do think what is damaging is not so much 'absolute level of ability' but 'the gap between you and the local norm', especially in the type of relatively isolated community I grew up in and DS first went to school in.

I am reasonably able by any 'absolute' standard - top Oxbridge first & PhD; DS less so, but DS was probably more affected by his ability, because at a particular stage when he was least able to handle it he was more clearly different from his relatively small age group in a particular type of community.

What negative experiences am I gravitating towards as I am really not sure what you mean? I also never said that any of these groups were bad, just that they aren’t right for my daughter and explained why.

I have also done my own research over the years. I have found very persuasive arguments both for and against your mindset. It is very easy to find one that supports your thinking and approach and use it to validate your actions. Which is exactly why I do not use them.

I am feeling your posts are, however, rather insensitive to those who do not agree with everything you say. At the end of the day there are several people on here with similar children. Their posts are intended to be helpful and to say what has worked for them. You can take it or leave it, but perhaps it’s best not to post on a public forum if you struggle with anything other than your way of thinking.

@CrumbleBrag Are you supported by research? And are you clairvoyant seeing 15 years in the future when I do not even know where and what my DD's will be doing next year? For now, I have identified a need and I am trying to cater to this. Hurling hateful unconstructive insults is unnecessary. Comments like yours will deter those in real need who understand what I am dealing with, I am sure many reception students write thought-provoking essays today.

Poor kids.

Crumblebrag, you cannot know that the OP's children will be normal at 15.

The very extreme outliers I know (outside my own family; as I say, DS was a local outlier but not an extreme statistical one in the general population) were very, very clearly able at the age of 3 or 4 and anything but normal at 15. Some have managed to stay within the 'external appearance of normality' - as in, remained in approximately mainstream education in approximately the right year group, while being educated in their 'subject of strength' at a wholly different level. Others have not. Some are socially personable, some are not. All those I know have the good fortune to be born within 'outlier families' and thus have good family support who tend to 'know the system' and have been through it to a great extent themselves.

My kids are in their 30s now. All the "profoundly gifted" children they grew up with are profoundly normal now.

I'm sure the school system did a fantastic job of getting them back down to normal.

I suppose it is very difficult from behind a keyboard - I picture OP as one of the parents of the extreme outliers I know, and thus i react in a particular way to her predicament. You may picture her as like a very pushy mother you know, and thus you react uin a different way. We can't know who is right.

Certainly none of the parents of extreme outliers I know are 'twats about supposed intelligence' (they are simply parents of highly unusual children, doing their best) though I do know some pushy parents to whom that description might be applied!

Well cantkeepaway has said pretty much everything I was going to (but you can't be me under a pseudonym, because I didn't have siblings!).

I was accelerated 2-3 years from age 6 onwards, with a full fees scholarship to a selective independent. With hindsight, in many ways it was the worst of all worlds. The social gap was enormous, but the academic work was still too easy. Having said that, I'm not sure that remaining with age peers (as I was at 5) would have been much easier. Perhaps there simply isn't a right answer for children who are outliers. (I blend in pretty well now.)

I do recall the NAGC Saturday group I went to for a couple of years with great fondness, though. I never chose to do anything remotely academic there. I'd mess around ineffectually in the craft room, because it was glorious to be surrounded by adults and children who "got" asynchronicity, and understood the frustrations of fingers that couldn't yet produce what your brain could see. I hated art at school... So OP, I'd say there is a place for meeting up with other high learning potential children, but more for mutual support from others who know what it's like to be developing out of sync, and for the joy of people you click with because they're wired the same way as you are, than for specifically academic activities. Though there's a place for that too, depending how much stimulation school is (or isn't) providing. We'd all understand an athletic child's need to run, and think it natural to let them stretch their legs regularly... so we shouldn't find it odd that high learning potential children want and need to stretch their brains, or explore topics beyond the school curriculum in their own time and call that "fun".

@chrys2017 You are so right, a majority of the research shows that children who are outliers are successfully normalised by the education system and lack of support in their communities.

Ceara, was your NAGC group called 'Explorers' too? And did your parents hide the NAGC newsletter because they were worried that we wouldn't enjoy the group so much if we knew what it was 'for'???

[Sorry to derail]

Tbh at ds’ school there is no real differentiation if a child already knows the material in ks1. If you can get any i5 is because you’ve pushed hard to get it. Book bands are limited by year and they refuse to do anything outside the years curriculum in maths and science, leaving able children bored and often disruptive or else withdrawing. Gotta love the NC.

Surely this is neglect on the part of the school? The first law of teaching is to engage a learner at the level they are at and advance them in their growth.

@Ceara @cantkeepawayforever I have looked into the NAGC group (now known as the potential plus), they no longer over such groups , I think they lost their funding ( I may be wrong). My DD's would have loved it, and that is all I was looking for.