Organising a gifted and talented group

[diazeki17]

Hello everyone,
I am interested in starting a gifted and talented group for children aged 5-7 in central London. I have two children who are in Mensa but unfortunately, mensa events and communities are for their adult members. Obviously, I do not mind if your kids are in Mensa or not, but if you feel that your kids are working above their age group and are gifted, please drop me a message. The hope is that it would be a relaxed group where we could organise trips and fun enriching activities that will continue to nurture their love of learning.

I am fascinated what is the point of Mensa etc? I have had a similar v.strong academic background, but have simply never seen the point other than a bit of self-congratulation? Thankfully my own two are in amazing schools; can't imagine anything worse than home schooling for social skills and "meeting up with other intelligent children", ugh.

I'm not sure @bathildab on the point of Mensa nowadays. I didn't do anything with them when I was little, but my DH did. This was obviously way (way, way) before online tests. He did a written iq test and they sent him to a University to test again as he'd scored off the scale. He ended up taking a few different kinds of tests and met some people in Mensa. I think his score was 178 or something like that.

He said he felt stupid once he got to Cambridge and University though (as did I!) I think Mensa are less into research now than they used to be then, but it didn't benefit him in any way. Also iq only measures what it measures.

@2Tails I have really appreciated your responses and it has led to me really thinking about the whole SEN/Autism angle which I hadn't much before (as no experience of that in my immediate family). Thank you for your thoughtful posts.

Another one who has never understood the point of MENSA. I can't think of anything worse than a club for clever people!

@GinAndToast @bathildab as @Ceara stated gifted does not equal academic achievement. Being part of Mensa is not a magic wand that solves all of life's problems. Mensa is a society where you have the opportunity to meet with others like you. We must remember that everything is multifactorial. Hence, some people have extremely positive feedback regarding their Mensa membership, while others felt they gained little or nothing from it. @GinAndToast you even mentioned that your DH met a few people and I think that is one of the key benefits of being in Mensa, you can not take that for granted. In regards to feeling 'dumb' in Cambridge, remember that a majority of individuals from all walks of life suffer from imposter syndrome, you will find musicians who are successful and still feel as though they are struggling to keep up. As my DD's are part of Mensa they get invited to events, but these are for older people, unfortunately, but I have no doubt that when their old enough they too can benefit from meeting a few people as your DH did or not if they decide not to. As part of Mensa, they get the junior magazine and can take part in reading challenges and access various resources such as puzzles and many more. From our experience, they enjoy it a lot.

Mensa Objectives:

The society's official objectives are:

1. to provide a stimulating intellectual and social environment for its members
2. to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity
3. to encourage research into nature, characteristics, and uses of intelligence

It is ironic that there are a lot of negative attitudes to a society that hopes to make change for all humanity.

When you think nothing can be worse than problem solvers coming together, I implore you to consider what 'clever' people have ever done to you.

Clever people haven't ever "done" anything to me! Quite the contrary, many of my friends and family are highly intelligent, and I enjoy their company. However, I would not personally choose the company of those who decide to join a club where IQ is the defining factor. It seems so narrow-minded, and perhaps a little smug, and I'm afraid I have little faith in the abilities of such people to solve real problems on behalf of humanity. It seems to me that they're too busy trying to set themselves apart from everyone else.

There are many places in our society where highly intelligent and knowledgeable people come together to identify solutions to the various problems that we face - universities are the obvious example, but there are others. Real change emerges from these collaborations.

However, I am not aware of any contributions that MENSA has made with regard to solving the problems facing humanity. What problems have they solved? It seems to me that all those clever people spend most of their time thinking about...being clever.

I believe that highly intelligent people do have a great deal to contribute to society. There is real potential. However, we need to look outwards and remember that we are just ordinary human beings rather than all this navel-gazing about how gifted we are. I agree with the previous poster who said it's mostly about self-congratulation.

I don't see the point.

Thank you for explaining imposter syndrome @diazeki17 I was actually being ironic though! And pointing out a "high IQ" doesn't mean a thing when you get to university and beyond.

The people DH met at Mensa were researchers as clearly he scored a complete outlier with a score like that. Even at the time though (70s/80s) the concept of IQ was losing credibility so Mensa didn't do anything further in terms of data, tracking or research with him. I can actually see a benefit of them as a society if they did that, but I am not sure such a high score would even warrant a meeting nowadays.

Certainly, he didn't get to meet any other similar children, but as I said before his parents (and mine were) deliberately didn't encourage that. And we are thankful looking back about that.

I don't know what my IQ is. Or any of my children. It doesn't affect anything or mean anything. I am utterly with @Brokenbiscuit on this. I want them to be useful members of society. They are not "special". They just find academic work much, much easier than others. As I did and my DH did.

What is age 11 reading level? Google is failing me here.

OP, I get what you're trying to do but as someone who is fairly bright (and I've never been IQ tested but have a first from oome of the universities mentioned above), I do think common interest levels is the main thing. Kids need to learn to socialise, it's important in the long term and it's probably the most important thing you can give them in life.

Why on earth have they joined Mensa though?

I know what my IQ score is, though I don't know what test was used. It isn't the slightest bit of use to me, other than I used to use it to reassure myself that I do have some good qualities. Which just shows I've had issues

We decided to wait until dd was in her mid teens before we offered her the option of taking a test. I didn't want her to grow up with a defined number hanging around her neck, defining her. She has declined. Her reason being that it would either be a label that she would then need to live up to, or a disappointment. She too sees it as pointless, that it really isn't a measure of a persons intelligence, just of a very narrow band of what some people classify as intelligent.

As a parent, I am curious about what it is, but I would not push her to take tests to satisfy my curiousity.

I know mine - was tested years ago when participating in a research project. It told me nothing that I didn't already know.

I don't know dd's IQ and would resist any attempt to test her. I'd say that she's a lot more intelligent than I am by a country mile. My DM thinks so too!

It might help to foster the dc's genius if the OP learned to use semicolons and apostrophes correctly. And it's impostOr syndrome.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

And as someone who was labelled as a genius by a well-meaning pushy parent, and was home schooled and sent off to uni at 14, I can say it caused me a lot of insecurity and heartache. Just let your kids be kids. Yes, read to them and give them piles of books from your local library and feed their intellectual curiosity, but don't make a fuss of how gifted and special and different they are. Down that road misery lies.

@Karakandchipattis it is what their school told me as my DD has finished the extended Oxford reading tree.

Suitable for: Pupils at Oxford Levels 18, 19 and 20 (Book Band 15 Red and Dark Red+) 10-11 year olds Y6 / P7 Key Stage 2 teachers

They have also read all the Roald Dahl books and many others. Thats has contributed to my DD’s complex vocabulary.

marfisa, while impostor might be more correct, both forms are considered acceptable. And please let's not nitpick about people's punctuation - it doesn't make for good debate!

Going to university at 14 must have been incredibly difficult. It sounds like you really missed out on an ordinary childhood. I can't understand why any parent would want that for their child, but I assume that they believed they were doing the right thing. I'm sorry that your experiences caused you so much heartache, and hope that you have managed to find your way through it. Out of interest, do your parents now regret how they approached things?

It's difficult being a parent. We try to do what's best, but it isn't always easy to see the unintended consequences of our choices. Ultimately, it will be for our children to judge whether or not we have done a good job.

@marfisa I am sorry about your childhood. Being homeschooled myself, I can relate. My DH and I have no intention of homeschooling our DD's. We are currently focused on making sure we give them a well-rounded childhood.

Just forget they are GnT and let them be kids. Helicoptering isn't good. Our intellectual ability is only one facet of mind body spirit. Give them practical problems to solve like the shopping budget or fixing the car. Let them get their hands dirty. Give them craft materials

They have reading ages of 10 and 11 respectively. They work at a mathematical level 3-4 years above their age.

i hadn't realised those were their levels.

Honestly that's not exactly stunning sorry. A hot-housey type prep/pre-prep might well suit them well - they'll be plenty of kids that level.

The lack of ability to interact with same age peers is a real worry though, especially given their academic levels aren't exactly stratospheric, and your solution is one that will alienate them more, not integrate them better at all.

Titchy,

That depends, really, because if the OP is relying in information from their current school, schools don't tend to explore 'the absolute limit' of what a child's performance could be - because, in general, they teach a curriculum and differentiate from that basis, rather than saying 'I know we're in KS1, but I wonder if child A could understand differentiation / set theory if I taught it'.

So a child who routinely works 3-4 years ahead in 'school maths' may be capable of much, much more, but isn't exposed to it, if that makes sense? So a ceiling is put on the assessment of what they demonstrate they can do.

I have always admired the SENCo working with an outlier child I know of, who armed themselves with mathematical tests from every year group up to end of secondary (child was, IIRC 6), and just kept going, applying common sense to determine where the child 'hadn't been taught the concept but was entirely capable of the reasoning'.

It gave them a good maths teaching programme (from the later secondary curriculum, plus a lot of 'breadth' extension) for the next few years - though of course that was only possible in a school with good links to the secondary, and then the local university.

I would say as a teacher that I can identify the 'mathematically able' within the classes i teach. However, i would NOT be able to - or prepared to - put a number - in age, or years ahead - that represents 'where they are capable of working across the mathematical spectrum'.

I can, and do, give them mathematical problems and puzzles that extend and broaden their mathematical thinking, but I have no assessment of 'exactly where they are working', if that makes sense?

That is a good level for a five year old. DS was there at 7 and he's a good reader but by no means profoundly gifted. He's a bright kid but nothing the teachers don't see every year. I'd be really worried if he said he couldn't interact with his peers.

I don't think he'd read RD by five though.

I've always encountered reverse snobbery about mensa when you get to groups of very (academically) bright people though so I would be a little careful about who you tell your kids are members as some people will laugh. Special interest groups rather than clubs for 'gifted children' really are the way to go as others have said. I know you want to nurture your kids but looking back at his childhood, DH said the best lesson he ever got was his DM sitting him down and explaining how to 'fake it to make it' with social interaction. DH also seriously bright but again not Trinity Maths at 14 level (thank god).

A relative's dog was a member but that's from before you needed to show ID to take the test 😀

applying common sense to determine where the child 'hadn't been taught the concept but was entirely capable of the reasoning'.

I fear of going down a psychological rabbit hole, but surely the only limits on ability to understand any of the current curriculum for an above average child (since the curriculum is what an average child should know). Would be developmental in nature, so e.g. most maths on the curriculum only requires the Conservation so if that has been reached, anything would be capable of being understood.

In terms of 5 and 6 year olds though, the KS1 curriculum particularly is not about understanding alone, it's about skills practice and making calculation automatic. Quite unrelated to maths concepts they could understand.

Of course, anything based on age for learning is crazy to me, particularly if it's just linked to a curriculum that happens to have been organised that way, or some guesswork based on vocabulary acquisation.

clarifying anything would be capable of being understood

If you had been taught any pre-requisites.

For the score of 178 or sth, the highest score in the UK is an 11 yo boy, now studying in reading grammar school. there isn't such thing as 178.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boy-iq-test-score-albert-einstein-stephen-hawking-11-year-old-arnav-sharma-a7814946.html

I can't believe you pay money just so you can say your kids are in mensa 😂 some people, honestly

@hhks there are different IQ tests with different higher limits 🙄 A quick google has confirmed that for me, although I knew it already.

DH's parents wouldn't allow it in the papers, thank goodness.

As I said, it excited Mensa, but they did not further research or even track DH to see what he did with it.