Organising a gifted and talented group

[diazeki17]

Hello everyone,
I am interested in starting a gifted and talented group for children aged 5-7 in central London. I have two children who are in Mensa but unfortunately, mensa events and communities are for their adult members. Obviously, I do not mind if your kids are in Mensa or not, but if you feel that your kids are working above their age group and are gifted, please drop me a message. The hope is that it would be a relaxed group where we could organise trips and fun enriching activities that will continue to nurture their love of learning.

I should add that i would see a 'portfolio' of such 'particular interest' clubs being better for your children - and other similar children - than a single 'G&T' one which is designed to isolate your children further on the basis of their ability.

As I say, we went to monthly NAGC children's club meetings when i was a child - but that was on top of activities pretty much every night of the week - St John's Ambulance, choir, music lessons, bellringing, Brownies / Cubs . Although the NAGC meetings were good for the 'children like us' aspect, it is the other clubs that enabled us to make friends through common interests right through university and into adult life.

My DCs are able, and they have found 'specific interest' clubs / activities a great source of like-minded, somewhat quirky, driven individuals.

I have a concern about the elitism inherent in a gifted and talented group of children, if the purpose is to go on museum trips etc. Outside of school hours, then the trips will be difficult to manage with a group as you will be visiting at the busiest times. If the purpose is socialisation with peers, then drama groups, guides etc. are surely more appropriate. But you want your bright children to mix with other bright children because currently they prefer the company of older children and adults, they may get on with the children you find they may not. Seems to be a bit like online dating, but compatibility is not simply based on IQ

I have a son who is v bright, he also is autistic and highly anxious. He enjoys chatting to his teachers about history and politics, he finds most of his peer group dull and noisy and unpredictable. He will find his tribe when he gets older and goes to university, most likely studying physics. I take him to museums and encourage him to put less pressure on himself. Finding a bunch of clever children to further ignite his desire to compete and stress about being "the best" is the very last thing I would do. But I suppose the so-called twice exceptional which is how ds is categorised, would not be what you were imagining for your group anyway op. That sounds bitter but I am not - ds gets all the down time he needs at home and more social interaction than he wants at school

I think fun activities and learning opportunities, are essential for all children. A specific group for bright children, may sound great, there may be tonnes of research to support it. But I feel that there will be a massive reality gap between what you imagine and what you get. Mind the gap.

I would also say 'who is going to identify these children as G&T'?

Will it be selected by parents (in which case, will you be selecting for parents who WANT their children to be G&T, rather than children who are genuinely gifted)? Or by schools? Or by e.g. Ed Psych / IQ tests /specialist assessment?

@cantkeepawayforever The special interest groups sound like a great place to start, my DD's are interested in Lego, Art and writing and already go to a music school, I will try and search for groups in this area. I have been looking at NAGC and potential plus and can see some monthly events.

Regarding assessing the G&T children, I would assume an Ed Psych or someone professionally trained to carry out the assessments would be the appropriate person to administer such assessments as everything else would fall into a grey area.

Thank you, you are a star!

How do you know they are gifted? They might just be fast developers.

have you heard of Tomorrow's Achievers? They run masterclasses in North London, aimed at "gifted" children although open to all (self-declared gifted, so to speak). I would also ditto looking for specific activities instead that tend to attract precocious or geeky children - science and programming courses etc.. Have a look at the London School of Maths and Programming as well.

My son has a "genius" score in fluid reasoning and other types of non-verbal reasoning as part of an Ed Psych report. However, he struggles socially and for this reason I have encouraged him to join scouts and do lots of ordinary social activities

Primary Maths Masterclasses

My kids are in their 30s now. All the "profoundly gifted" children they grew up with are profoundly normal now. Plenty went off to Oxbridge, plenty withered along the way but at primary age they need to socialise with all sorts more than they need more maths for the super-clever.

@sanam2010 thank you so much, and I have not heard of these programmes. There is a wealth of information out there that I know nothing about clearly.

@PiDeltaEpsilon someone on the thread suggested the scouts and Girls guide which is on my to-do list. Would you say that your DS is enjoying the scouts? Because I would please like to know how he is enjoying it. Thank you.

Moomin, in general, I agree with you.

However, i do think that there is space in a young child's 'portfolio iof activities' for one of them to be academic-based IF that is their 'thing'. So a fortnightly Maths session of a couple of hours, on top of a normal child's round of Brownies / swimming lesson / children's music class / playing in the park can be just the right balance, whereas if that same Maths event is only offset by daily formal instrumental practice to a strict timetable, that can be different. Does that make sense?

At your children's age, by the way, Guiding / Scouting would be Rainbows, possibly Brownies, for girls only and Beavers for boys or girls. Most groups have very long waiting lists, and once 'in' then there is priority for existing members to move up to the next stage (Brownies / Cubs then Guides / Scouts).

Tbh assuming that a group of PG children will get on well just because they are PG may be misguided. There may well be as much of a mix of interests as there will be in the general population and even more if you end up with 2e children.
Also lots of these kids are likely to be high energy so taking them to museums may be very interesting to say the least.

@Moominmammacat I hate to quote this study again my.vanderbilt.edu/smpy/files/2013/01/DoingPsychScience2006.pdf, but it offers evidence as to why children assessed as gifted wither away. However, life does happen and people are different and Oxbridge is not necessary a mark of success. Hence, the people you felt withered away might be successful in themselves because success is subjective. I am not planning my kids future 30 years down the line.

Also gifted children and talented children are usually two different groups and although there may be some overlap most children will either fit into one or the other.

I do also think that, while socialising widely with 'all sorts' is hugely valuable for outlier children, the importance of 'being normal' - as in 'being with a bunch of people like you' for such children can be overlooked.

In my family, I was normal, but we knew we were, as a family, not normal in the communities we lived in, particularly where we lived from mid-primary years. I was not normal - age accelerated, 100% academic scholarship, very poor, still very noticeably 'able' - in the all girls private boarding school I attended for secondary. I was normal in my Oxbridge college. That was bliss, of a type I had only had previously in our monthly NAGC group.

I can 'pass as normal' now, and that is partly due to all the 'socialisation with all sorts' we did as children / young people. However the strain to 'fit in all the time' is a very strong memory for me, and it is good for everyone to have a safe place to 'take off that armour' occasionally.

No matter how gifted or talented a person is, good interpersonal skills will be vital in their success later in life. Surely mixing with a range of people is essential for all children? The gifted and talented stuff only really matters for learning surely, not play?

Sounds elitist and a bit isolating for the child.

@cantkeepawayforever. I am so glad that you are here to explain how it can feel to always have to hide your true self.

I agree with vampirina
Particularly at such a young age surely the most important thing is to learn to make friends of all abilities, which will be useful for life? Also as the years go by when pressure increases then feeling that their ability isn't the only thing that defines them and their friendships may be a great stress buster ( they are likely to be highly driven etc anyway) so all the work needs to be in reducing that stress.
I am still best friends with my less academic friends, where the basis of our friendship was nothing to do with our grades or university choice.

OP - he loves cubs (which is the part of scouts he is in). I also agree with others about learning to get on with lots of different types of people.

Surely mixing with a range of people is essential for all children? The gifted and talented stuff only really matters for learning surely, not play?

It depends. The preferred play of very able young children can be different from that of the preferred play of their age peers. So while it is essential to seek out opportunities where children of all abilities can mix doing something they all enjoy and where they can meet as 'equals' (Guiding / Scouting / Woodcraft Folk outdoor activities are one example, as can some sports be), free play is not always that opportunity.

to learn to make friends of all abilities, which will be useful for life

Of course. But can they not also learn - or not have to learn, just be able - to make friends with those who are similar to themselves, or who have a similar specific great interest, whether that be music or coding or animation or Lego? That's a pleasure that almost all 'non outlier' children have, after all - can't outlier children have it too?

Yes, of course, able children should be able to modify themselves to 'pass as normal', to 'fit in' - but should be not also enable them to find some environments in which they do not have to do this?

OP, chess clubs are another widely available haunt of the outlier!

@cantkeepawayforever my son does both - one club which I would regard as more "niche" and cubs. In my view he needs to both enjoy his "niche" activities, but also be able to interact with a wide variety of people.

In the sector I am in, I work with some individuals who are highly intelligent, but struggle socially to interact with people who are not on their level. I would love my son not be like this

@cantkeepawayforever Exactly what I have been trying to voice on this thread. My DD's can get on with children of all abilities, but when I organise playdates with kids their age, they tell me it was a painful experience and express their boredom (this happened last week after paying for an indoor playground). People do not understand that when my DD's where 18 months they read so much and I used to hide books, I am ashamed to say that, but it was exhausting for me to keep up as I had work. Currently at school when offered free play time they prefer puzzles. What type of parent would I be if I do not cater to their need?