3+ 4+ 5+ 7+ support thread 2016

[mumteacher]

In previous years I have started these threads to help and support all those parents involved in the independent school admissions process.

I wasn't going to start one this year as I know I would not be able to check back on it as regularly as I would like, which then defeats the purpose of the thread.

However, after numerous positive PM's about the threads I think it would be a shame not to start one where at least the hand holding can continue.

There are many many people who have been through the process and 'live to tell the tale' . There are also other tutors I know who read this thread and it would be great if you all could help and support and share your ideas.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2244787-3-4-5-7-support-thread-2015

Good luck - it's a great position to be holding multiple offers but can be a tough decision to make.

Meonlyme, during our second round with Habs, the head confirmed that they will advise girls to consider other schools at year 5 if they can't thrive; and in most cases it's due to the academic side. Also in Habs all girls will take the 11+ exams but Amish all of them will continue to the senior school.

'Almost all of them will continue to the senior school'. Sorry for the typo in my previous post.

Frogusha - I share your concerns about Channing. Lots of siblings from DD's school already there and they don't in any way prepare for 7+ or 11+ and are very explicit about this in the talks during selection. So if you accept a place, it will be on the basis that you will need to tutor to move your DD in which case, she could go state with the same result!

i guess the other problem is i have an august born and while she is outgoing and enthusiastic about trying stuff i'm not sure about if this will likely be too much and what it may do to her if she isn't able to cope....

Thanks for your response dollyphillips. We're in a lovely non-selective indie prep currently in Hampstead, which is nurturing and fantastic in every way although it doesn't seem to be overly academic. So I think if we were to stay there till 11 we would need to tutor but still, they will also do some preparing - they seem to have good exit result (and a lot to Channing). I would like to explore Grammar options at 11 as well as all best indie schools so Channing seems like a bad option for this scenario. Can anybody say anything to the contrary at all? And yes, I agree Lastmindotcom - 7+ seems like it'd be very tough but I heard it can be done (and how horrible on little girls told to leave at 7!!)

Meonlyme, for what it is worth, one of my colleague has his daughter as Habs and is absolutely found of it. His daughter really enjoys herself there.

trust your gut feeling

I agree - always trust your gut instinct. You will need to tutor at Channing so if you are thinking of the grammars (there are quite a few if you are prepared to move) staying in the nuturing environment and tutoring would seem the way to go? Always hard and impossible to know. The way we are looking at it, if only offered schools which are not our first choice (still waiting on two and on wait list for two) we have to seriously consider whether right to move her from where she is / consider our outstanding state option and tutor. I totally underestimated the amount the tutoring that goes on, even for 4+ so a school that helps prepare with this, in any form, is a big plus!

Also consider if you send your child to a school where the vast majority progress through to the senior school - your child may be very resistant to the thought of going elsewhere at 11. Whereas a school where everyone scatters at 11 makes it all much easier.

For anyone on the wait list at SHHS I know of two girls who are going to turn down places and one on the wait list who almost certainly won't take a place if offered.

It is a little off topic but dd2 is just 4 months and thinking ahead to registering for good indie preps/ preschools in the area particularly after going through this process with dd1. I can see now that a 'normal' nursery setting just doesn't cut it when it comes to the 4+ process. The thought of doing it all again fills me with dread... Any suggestions? Does anyone feel that their dds were prepared in any way by their school/ nursery setting?

Dip123 - I totally agree. We were very underprepared and I am sure that Mumsteacher will agree that mentoring gives candidates a real advantage. Not that untutored girls are any less bright or capable, but if familiar with the format / what is expected, it removes some of the unknown and therefore enables those girls to excel. Unfair - yes, and there is an argument that schools are more apt at working out whether a child has been tutored or not and take that into account. I don't think they are - as the results in this 4+ are showing.

I would very much be interested in any views on good feeder nurseries / schools too as I understand there are a few for NLCS for example.

I used to be of the opinion that a bright girl ready to learn that has met and surpassed most development milestones would stand a good chance as the schools are assessing how ready girls are to learn / whether the environment is right. Which of course they are, what is missing is the glaringly obvious fact that too many of such girls apply in which case you have to whittle them down somehow and it is easy to see how familiarity with the process in a school gives a comparable girl an advantage.

Hi all I don t think tutoring is mandatory for 4+. I didn't put my daughter through it and she was accepted in Ken prep glendower prep etc. We are talking about 3/4 years old! People were telling me she is not an English native speaker, she is borned in July you did not put her in a pre pre prep nursery etc. She went to a day care in the area and had 0 prep except me spending time with her reading tones and tones of stories (she has never enough) I had to register at the public library as I couldn't fit any more books in her room. I had to go there each week and pick 24 books! I show her how to draw as she is not doing nap anymore I just wanted her to have a quiet time after lunch as my baby boy was sleeping. She did a bit of phonics at the day care and numbers. I think they are more interested in children than looks curious asking questions etc than kids that knows how to read etc. I would say if a child needs tutoring at 3 I am a bit worried he would not follow after

writingonthewall - thanks for the update re SHHS we are waitlisted :(. BTW what are they taking instead? i think some may think we are crazy for our preference of SHHS over HABS. Congrats to all who have places, but i know it may not be a happy day for everyone. We have offers from HABS and Putney. We are waitlisted for SHHS :( which is probably our slightly favoured option due to proximity and some concerns over HABS. Are there any mums on here that I could PM re HABS?.

Tiredoffourplusfour - it might be worth letting South Hampstead know that you are holding an offer from Habs - but that your heart lies with them. It might affect your place on the waiting list.

Hello mumteacher

My 3 year old gave the assessment for ST helens northwood last month for 3+, we received the letter yesterday, they said she performed well at the assessment but wasn't offered a place due to high level of competition, they have suggested we place her name on the reserve list. I feel totally distraught , my girl can do all the things like recognising her name, counting, alphabets and is doing very well in her nursery (she goes to St Hildas nursery) thats why I am really shocked at the result, I know i shouldn't be given the competition. Next year I am hoping to try for NLCS and Habs but am feeling really discouraged right now. Sorry for going on but wanted to ask you if you knew how the reserve lists work, if you know if being on the reserve list helps. Also can you recommend any other private school we could consider, I was thinking of Northwood College for girls...Any ideas or suggestions would help raise my morale at the moment....:(

tiredoffour4+ probably better not say where they are going as may out me/them but it is schools within the main 4 that we have all been discussing. Habs is a fantastic school by the way and has much better facilities than SHHS - if you can manage the journey you'd be mad to turn it down, but if you live very near SHHS then I agree that is a long way.

shopgal9, I understand what you must be feeling, but don't feel discouraged from trying again at 4+. Your DD will change a great deal in the year between 3+ and 4+ entry.

We tried for the 4+ this year. DD received offers from NLCS and Habs, but was put on reserve at St Helen's. The fact that your DD was not made an offer at St Helen's at 3+ should not discourage you from trying again, at St Helen's and at other schools, at 4+.

In any event I understand there is a fair amount of movement on the St Helen's 4+ reserve list and there may well be on the 3+ list too.

Thanks a ton for your encouragement ResIpsaLoquiter really appreciate it, and congratulations to your DD for her offers from NLCS and Habs, can you please share any tips as to what was included in the assessment and the kind of questions asked during the interview.

Yes will definitely try again in 4+, as you said by then she will be a bit more grown up :)....

All the best to you and your DD with which ever school she chooses to go with, they both are great schools...

shopgal9 -- thank you. DD has a clear favourite, which makes the decision much easier!

The previous years' versions of this thread contain some useful insights into the assessment process which will help give you an idea of what to expect.

It will change slightly from year to year, and in any case the children seem to enter into a pact of secrecy with the schools. When we asked DD what she did in assessment at one of the schools (so as to attempt to gauge how she might have done), she qualified every answer she gave us with a cheeky 'I tricked you!'

But, making an educated guess based in the EYFS criteria, MumsNet posts and the little details we did glean from DD, I would look at the following (not an exhaustive list):

• gross motor skills exercises (hopping, jumping, kicking a ball in a straight line)
• fine motor skills (cutting, colouring in between the lines, ability to hold a pencil)
• a genuine interest in learning and willingness to learn (does she engage with a story, does she ask follow up questions? Can she guess what might happen next?)
• concentration, ability to follow instructions (Simon Says is a good game for this!)
• confidence
• independence
• sequencing (probably coloured and shaped beads)
• number recognition and a basic understanding of addition and subtraction as concepts
• ability to recognise her own name (and possibly write it)

Reading and writing do not form part of the assessment at 4+, but I believe they will probe children who show signs of being able to read or write. DD did say she was asked to write a three letter word (presumably after she wrote her name on a picture she drew in assessment) but she refused.

I should qualify all of the above by saying that having been through the process I agree with the proposition that you cannot (and should not) prep children for these assessments. The assessment is one of suitability at a particular point in time. If DD is the right fit the school will see that at assessment. If she is not then she would not be happy there and I would not want it for her. Schools are 'better' or 'worse' than each other only in their suitability for the child in question.

Having said that, if all the signs of suitability are there, it is common sense and good practice to expose your DD to the types of activities she might do in assessment, if she isn't doing them already at home with you and/or at pre-school.

ResIpsaLoquiter - thanks a ton for your pointers, will definitely follow them, at the moment she definitely ticks most of the boxes, although need to work on her concentration and sequencing. Luckily she goes to a good nursery/pre prep so she should be able to pick a few of the above in the next year to come....but fingers crossed we can only hope for the best to happen when the time comes :) but again thanks for your insight definitely makes me feel a lot more positive .....take care

Our little one in on the waiting list of one of the North London preps and the deadline for the confirmation of the first round of offers is Wednesday, as it seems to be for the other schools in the area. I am wondering about how the clearing process really works...are schools already calling people on their lists as they receive declines? I assume that is the only way that people on the WL of their first choices can send declines to their second choices. Or is there some sort of big clearing on Wednesday?

I know of a few friends who have moved from reserve list to an actual place over the last few days at three different NW schools so definitely worth calling them to let you know you are very keen. I don't think they wait until Wednesday if they already have slots to fill although I expect more may become available on Wednesday as well if people have been holding off accepting due to being on a wait list for their preferred choice.
good luck, I hope it comes through

We are 7+. Reserve list for Highgate. Call came on Friday afternoon, despite acceptance deadline being this Wednesday. Picture should become clearer for schools every day this week. We did all the paperwork yesterday; including declining our 2nd choice to free that place up as quickly as possible. Fingers crossed that there will be new options open up this week