Head told me to go make complaint at Ofsted it wont help me

[RP1979]

I just need to vent to into the black hole that is the internet...
Short story, my YR1 daughter came home this week touching her vaginal area, and when I asked why she keeps touching there, she said it hurts from where a boy in her class touched her there!! My stomach dropped and I tried to get as much detail as possible.
This boy is known by other mothers as he has been caught laying on other boys and trying to kiss them or stick his tongue in their mouth. He is also incidentally a really big boy and others can't fight him off.

So off to the Head we went the following morning. All sounded promising, action plan was drawn up etc. Then it fell flat when her class teacher told me after school she spoke to him and he denies it and the poor boy was very upset. The whole conversation left me feeling she didn't believe my daughter even though my daughter told her too in a conversation that he touched her.
All this btw while my daughter is standing next to me. So on the way home she asked me if her teacher didn't believe her and why wouldn't she believe her? What do you say to that??

I held it all in as we had a follow up meeting with the Head the following day. Unfortunately hubby had to go into work but thought as it was an update meeting I could handle it. How wrong was he. The head started by telling me had a word with the teacher and it seems very difficult to say if it did happen or not. I was speechless! Then furious! Told him I believe my daughter and why would a 5yr old girl make this up!? I was livid and then (probably wrongly) said I would go to Ofsted to complain- (ha what a mistake) he looked me in the eye and said, "don't threaten me, you can go to Ofsted, (then gave a laugh!) and added "I will even give you the number and the name you can talk to" ?!!?! Do we really have no power or control as parents. Is governing bodies just a box ticking exercise to give us a false sense of empowerment?? Unfortunately I was so surprised by his comment that I didn't think on my feet and said "well yes give it to me then"

I do wish my husband was present, would he have said that to me with him present in that tone?
This a supposedly 'good' school in an affluent borough... Or is that the exact reason why he can be so cocky?

Is there anything we can do or is it just a bitter pill that I will have to swallow and carry on.

On the upsetting event he said he spoke to the parent and the incident will be recorded. The teachers will talk to the children in the year group.
That is that.

If we had money I would have loved to put her in a private school.
What is the process of trying to move your child to a different school? Although around here they all seem to have long waiting lists.
Im just feeling let down by how they deal with parents...

Please read my post up thread.

The LADO is not the correct person to deal with this matter. Their job is to investigate when a member of staff has been accused of behaving inappropriately towards a child or has caused them harm.

I think people are confusing the LADO with the DCPO - the Designated Child Protection Officer for the school. In most schools this is the HT, but there is normally more than one - often the Deputy Head and Senco, or other person with safeguarding responsibilities in the school.

I would personally take my child out, ringing social services on the way about the little boys sexualised behaviour.

It's interesting that you mention the affluent borough, successful school thing. I work in a lot of schools for my job and I find the ones which fit this category, being in a high ranking LEA in very wealthy areas for example, often have this 'cockiness' about their leadership, with it filtering down to class teachers who either share the same attitude or sort of resent it and look a bit bitter. One school where the head floated past a child being sick and said 'oh I'll go get a lunchtime assistant' pulling a 'yikes' face at me. Not very caring.

Thank you all again. From completely not knowing what to do this thread has at least given me points to contact that may help.

The outcome: I kept my daughter from school, emailing in safeguarding concerns (as helfully suggested on here).
We went back to see the head and listed everything that has happened. He still maintained his position on 'he said, she said' and kept hammering on the fact that there is no evidence.
This frustrated me as what evidence are there ever really in situations such as these?
I then moved on and asked him if he reported it to the central point at the LA (again as so helfully suggested here). He said no, as that is not something he would normally do at these stages. He also said that LADO wont do antything as he knows from past experience they will first ask him if there is any evidence and as there is none they wont bother with any further action.

I then said that its my understanding that he need to report it if we formally request it. He then half laughed again and said we can report it, we can report it to anyone we want. He can give me the numbers (yes he went there again!!) but this time I interrupted him and said no I have it (took notebook in with me and made notes, had the numbers already written down).
Meeting ended with him refusing to give me any reassurance that he will up supervision etc. He just said there is adequate supervision. I mean did I want too much?? To simply ask all sraff to keep extra eye on the boy and my daughter in the playground? And what about the toilet routines? I asked him to go think what he can do to make me feel better about sending my daughter back to school. He said he will phone me sometime this week (I doubt he will) as he also eagerly said he himself will inform the Governors and make this an official complaint - I can go look up the procedure online, as we are 'clearly' not happy with what he is telling us. But he has followed all his 'procedures and policies'.
The end

I went home and reported it to the LA children safeguarding board. I first spoke to them (very helpful and sympathetic!) then logged it online. They also confirmed that he should have reported to them/LADO.
By the afternoon I had a call to go see school liason officer. I had a re-assuring meeting with her today and she also talked to my daughter in a re-assuring manner. So also confirmed to my daughter that the teachers will believe her if she go tell them if someone do that to her. Apparantly the council contacted the school yesterday and by the sound of it wheels started turning. They are also looking at the toilet procedure to avoid any further situations. Like she said they would be really on the look out now for a while to ensure nothing else happens.

Regarding the boy- who knows. They wont tell me anyway if something was done.

So we will have to see how it is going to go. Probably didnt make any friends this process by involving the council into his school- but then again my daughter is more important.
I can only hope that everything will be ok. We are teaching our daughter basic self defense techniques (I dont condone violance, but it does look like it is dog it dog out there on the playground and without any evidence you will never truly win). We also practise role play where she practise to say 'no stop!' and run away to go tell an adult. As he is a really big boy and wraps his arms around her from behind she may have to stomp on his foot or bite his arm for him to let her go. If she get in trouble I will go deal with them.

I am still apalled at the HT attirude to the end (I dont think I will hear from him again now). But I am not wasting my time to complain to the Governors who are mostly in his pockets anyway. I will save my complaint to them if anything else happens.

Thank you again. I felt really helpless and scared last week. At least now I know it has been logged and they should take it all more seriously.

well done OP, good work

Then I hope they follow up the fact that HT did not follow procedure. Well done for doing this, OP.

Well done you OP. So wheels only started turning when outside authorities supported you. I think the head's attitude is appalling. Evidence? The evidence is your daughter's physical discomfort and her testimony.

I would put this in writing to the governors. You cannot rely on the head to do so. Just in case this goes further it is really important to have a paper trail and an "official complaint". Keep notes of all your meetings and contacts with the various authorities. It might sound over the top, but worth it if it protects your daughter and perhaps other children who come into contact with this disturbed little boy.

All hail the power of MNet

Well done, OP. That can't have been easy in the face of the HT's unbelievably dismissive, unprofessional and frankly disgraceful attitude. By pursuing this you aren't just making school safe for your own DD, but for any future children this man seems only to happy to let down.

Well done at times like this it is hard protecting your child and not making friends but completely worth it. Sounds like you did the right thing, I would also follow up with an official complaint to the governors, even if they are in his pocket they will not want this blowing up with an audit trail they knew something about it.
Hope your DD is OK and the little boy but well done. If you have serious concerns you can apply to the lea to move schools and I would think sexual assault and the bad attitude would certainly be a good reason. If they cannot reassure you she will be kept safe get her out and the LEA should support that x x

Mummyfit - thank you I did know that you can apply to move school (they should put all this in the notes when you leave the hospital with your baby!) its a real shock for first time parents when they encounter the school force in action. Once again very helpful information to have should this continue! I have kept extensive notes on every conversation.
Maybe I will re consider complaining to the Governors too.

OP - a letter to the Governers outlining what has happened and what you've done, who you've contacted and what you expect to happen next should do it. It doesn't have to be a complaint, more of a passing on of information.

Absolutely, totally get this in writing to the Governors. I hope your DD is OK. And that help/safety is achieved for the little boy. Well done.

Go girl! Sorry, lol. You did well! Bless your little dd. Hope nothing else happens. And make sure you get it all written down, and keep following stuff up in necessary.

No Evidence? That's all right then. Lets just wait until we catch the boy doing X and there's a camera filming it.

I'm so sorry for you, OP, and your lovely girl. Being believed is massive. She knows you believe her. If the staff won't then I'm afraid how you can trust them.

By no evidence, he said she said, does the head mean that she has made it up? Really? At her age? What bollocks.

I've had to speak to our head this week about a staff member saying something that was a red flag for me regarding safe guarding of children. She said she didn't think the staff member had meant it as it sounded but agreed it sounded bad and it would be dealt with. She also accepted what I said my chick had said about an incident with no . Has been handled as if it is true as no harm done if not true but huge harm if ignored.

I really hope your daughter can feel happy and safe at school again.

"I then said that its my understanding that he need to report it if we formally request it. He then half laughed again and said we can report it, we can report it to anyone we want. He can give me the numbers (yes he went there again!!) but this time I interrupted him and said no I have it (took notebook in with me and made notes, had the numbers already written down)."

I punched the air when I read that! Well done.

Well done OP - a bully of a HT by the sounds of things. I just popped in to highlight that when you "write to the Governors" please do so following the school procedures for escalating complaints.

If you, for instance, send a copy of your letter to all the governors rather than via the clerk or Chair (depending on what the school policy says) , then the Governors will be unable to address your complaint. I know it's tempting to want them all to see it and expose the HT behaviour to them all - but from experience, I know that if a letter is circulated to all Governors, it creates a situation that is impossible to satisfactorily resolve.

The fact that you've had LA involvement will assist the Complaints Panel immensely when it comes to hearing the complaint - but you'll only get that far if you continue to follow procedure.

Please do not send the letter to all governors as you will completely c**k up the complaints system. The formal complaints system will firstly entail the chair of governors or a nominated governor considering your complaint and what the head teacher did to resolve the problem. That should not be a difficult exercise as he did sweet FA.

However if the nominated governor still comes up with whitewash then the next step is for a panel of independent governors to consider the appeal. They cannot do that easily if they have all been told of the problem by you.

I will be honest and say that this sounds like a school governing body that will create whitewash and just do as told by the arrogant person who is the head teacher. However they are going to find that not as easy to do if as seems likely the LA have gone in there and told somebody what they should and should not be doing.

It's worrying that a head teacher has to look for evidence. My understanding was that if a child makes any allegation you write notes as soon as possible after the event and do not ask any questions as this could jeopardise any future prosecution.

I know a 5 year old boy is not going to be prosecuted however surely the procedure is the same regardless ( just in case it subsequently transpires an adult or older child is also involved). Surely a small child making an accusation about sexual assault is a potential flag that she has been abused, be it by the boy or someone else. Also if he has previously kissed etc other children surely the school should be keeping a close eye on him.

When did head teachers start investigating sexual abuse? Is this standard practice now?

Just an update should anyone in future have a similar situation and come accross this thread...
Bottomline; there is no hope or help if the school does not want to do anything.
We got happy too quickly. One week on and the boy is still 'capturing' my girl by coming from behind and gripping her trying to touch her boobies. They still go to toilets together in groups (they are in the same one). She still doesnt tell the plaground helpers (1 per class). I dont know what else to do to help her to tell them. The school not interested in helping.
Im starting to think I should get a group of mothers together to go talk about this boy as more has come forward stating things like they caught him trying to look up their daughter's dresses and encourage other boys to go pull pants down.
There is no help for the victims, they just looking for excuses to ridicule what my daughter is saying. Now she is looking for attention. May have been true if I was all nice to her, but I get angry when she tell me, as Im beyond frustrated! Yet she still tell me even if she is worried Im going to get cross.

I have contacted other schools - she will be around 5th on the waitinglist. Council have informed me we need to work toghether with the school. Which we have been trying to do but if they refuse to take any action what is left to do?

Leave my daughter and let it all continue until one day something serious happens and we hopefully have proof? I have lost faith in UK school systems. No wonder that mother in the article had to move her daughter to a different school. If there were spaces in the ones around here I would have moved her in heartbeat.

Thats all. Good luck to anyone whoever encounter these sorts of problems. Your human rights as a victim only start age 10.

Did you report to the governors? There should be one named governor responsible for safeguarding.

My DDs school has just had the NSPCC in talking to all the children about appropriate behaviour and when to talk to an adult. Maybe you could call them and ask for advice on how to progress when the school and council seem incapable of protecting your DD.

Could you home educate until a place comes up in a different school?

This is a horrible situation. I just wouldn't send my dd into school if this was happening.

oh RP, that is so shit.

OP so sorry to hear this. Don't let it drop. Go back to the council people who originally got the school to take notice, go to social services again, contact the governors, put it all in writing. your daughter is in a vulnerable position and this is not acceptable. MAKE A FUSS!!

Ask the head and the school liason officer to say what specific action has been taken to safeguard your daughter. If there are other mums with similar issues it would help if they contacted the school.

OP, that's awful - I am so sorry to hear that your daughter is still having to suffer this. The school is behaving very badly.

Don't let it drop. I spent ages trying to be nice and co-operative with my DS's school, and in the end realised only when I invoked the law did they sit up and take action.

Appeal for other schools with evidence that this school is failing to safeguard your daughter.

Encourage other mothers to apply for other schools and appeal on safeguarding grounds.

Complain to the governors and encourage other mothers to do so.

Report your concerns about the school's approach to safeguarding to Ofsted and encourage other mothers to do so.

Don't give up. Most schools are better than this and take safeguarding issues seriously.

We had a bullying problem which involved the whole class. It went on for a long time, and I was always in dread of finding out what had happened. The school were doing something but very very slowly. The HT had a file and the main bullies were on threat of lunchtime exclusion. I have no doubt that if they were ever excluded, they would not have had a leg to stand on at appeal, but it never got there. None of the TAs could see what the problem was, even though it was under their nose, until the son of one of them was threatened out of school and she realised. Most of what went on was covert, so they were rarely in a position to see.

People took their children out. Seven left. Mainly, it was because of the disruptive atmosphere. The children who were the focus of the bullying left and suddenly, there were all these activities for small groups to do, and a better teacher. Things never really recovered, but were passable. HT retired a year later.

The only help the LA could offer was to go through the proper procedures with the governors (which they admitted would achieve nothing as it was already known) or send DC to another school. I am afraid that if the head is ineffective this is probably the only route. I was told when I visited one school that the LA were well aware of the situation and would probably make a place available if their last place was taken.