Teacher grabbed my DDs arm and pulled her over

[craftyoldhen]

My DD was queuing up for lunch today, she was upset and crying because her friend was being unkind. There has been a few friendship issues recently

The teacher asked DD what was wrong, and asked her to go to the quiet room with her to talk about it. DD said she didn't want to talk about it - this is because she doesn't trust the teachers any more, she says if she goes to them for help she just ends up in trouble. She tried to walk away, so the teacher said "don't walk away from me young lady", grabbed her arm and pulled her, accidentally knocking her to the floor.

Is this acceptable, especially given she wasn't been naughty, she was just upset? For background she is 7 and has suspected ASD.

That's all really helpful, thanks :)

We use the Incredible 5 point scale system so children can identify how they are feeling visually ... Things like traffic light pencil cases - green showing means I'm fine, yellow I'm feeling anxious/ upset, red I'm very anxious/angry and need quiet time.
Visual prompts - feelings key rings can show an adult what they need without need to explain.
Social stories to explain why people behave in a certain way and how society expects us to behave to fit in.

I would expect all staff to be informed about the type of difficulties individual children experience.

I've just ordered the carol Gray "the new social story book" for DS. It's for children who are high functioning and have reasonable understanding. It comes with a cd with the stories on that can adapted to child. Senco, ELSA and I are meeting next week to chose some for DS (we already use social stories).

Also school use the anxiety gremlin with DS.

He has a 5 point scale, I've made a minecraft one for him as he can relate to 3 rd person better. Then he has each of the 5 scales on a key ring he can use to identify his feelings. (Altho atm he still just runs off).

Most of our stuff/ resources is stuff we've made and he uses same stuff for school and home. It's really easy when the school are on board and the communication lines are open.

I'd say tell the school you want to be transparent. I send copies of every appointment letter and consultation write up to senco so she knows everything. Even if it's just his bowel medication has been adjusted or he's had new inserts for his schools!

Inserts for shoes!

past the thing which is annoying here is that the OP's DD has been misinterpreted and the teacher has actually exacerbated a situation needlessly. Probably with the best of intentions, but she needs to personalise what she does for each child.

Situation - child in line crying.
Typical response - let's talk about this, child goes off, it's sorted.

BUT OP's child DIDN"T WANT to talk about it. This is common in children with social anxiety who aren't crying for attention or for interaction. It is not heinously rude to not want to discuss why you are upset. I am the same. On the rare occasions I have been upset at work I have hidden in the loo for a cry. I would hate it if my boss came in and asked me to 'talk about it'. I would be mortified. We are all different. So, let's replat the scenario:

Scenario - OP's child, well known by her teacher, in line crying.
Teacher checks with her, 'Would you like to talk about it?'
Child - 'No', turns away
Teacher - - realising that this is THIS child who doesn't like much attention - OK, well I am here if you would like a word later.

See, no escalation, no assumption of rudeness.

Where it went wrong was in teacher's switch from 'concerned teacher' to 'affronted teacher' in assuming that this child had to speak to her and had no right to say no and turn away. This was interpreted as rude and OP's DD was then 'in trouble'. It was a non-situation escalated by misinterpretation:

scenario - child in line crying
Teacher - let's talk about this
Child - I don't want to, turns away
Teacher, affronted - Don't you walk away from me young lady, grabs arm to prevent this
Child stumbles.

Result - baffled child unsure why teacher is cross. Needlessly cross teacher. All because no-one asked the child IF she wanted a chance to talk about something, but assumed she SHOULD talk about something.

Unfortunately this is not a rare scenario. Some (NOT all) teachers would benefit from learning to personalise their responses and understand that they too have a responsibility to avoid escalating a situation.

I'm sorry I thought the responses stopped on page 2! My response may be a bit out of kilter.

i dont know if you've had your meeting yet, but.

My ds is 8, he has diagnosed Dyspraxia and Sensory Processing Disorder, he is suspected of having ASD/ADHD and we're waiting to see the Paed after being seen by CAMHS.

He presents very typically as HFA, emotional instability, communication problems, little or no impulse control, no volume control...etc

He currently has a School Action Plus IEP. This is something your DD's school should be doing with her, it allows you and the teacher and SENCO to put together and individual education plan tailored to her and her needs.

DS is allowed access to the schools sensory/chill out room if he becomes distressed.
He does some 1 to 1 with social stories, interventions with his ability to empathise and communicate with the class..etc
the rest pertains to his physical disabilities.

I would say though, what you've said with her being 'floppy' it sounds like she has something called 'low tone' to me, and that needs referring to an Occupational Therapist to get it looked into incase she needs some therapy to help her strengthen her core!

School Action Plus no longer exists under the new SEND code of practice I'm afraid

well its what my kids school is still using!

Op, Sorry this happened. Can you go privately for an assessment?

Sorry if that has been suggested already but I cant get past pasts post.

The worst bit was that you thought that having an asd child in your child's class benefitted your child. It's not your school, it's as much the child with asds school as your child's school. That's all I wanted to say.

I read your apologies and am glad to see them but I found your initial post so hurtful that I had to post that.

She has seen an OT who says she has sensory problems, particularly with propreoception (?spelling).

Anyway I had the meeting at school today and I'm so annoyed. Firstly her class teacher left half way through to run a personal errand, which I thought was massively rude.

Secondly they ignored pretty much all the requests I had.

They're going to do a passport for her so other teachers are aware of her difficulties, only I was already told they were going to do this LAST year when they initially raised concerns re: ASD. Still they're finally getting around to it which is good.

And they're going to observe her at play time to see what the problems are. Even though I told them what the problems are).

They said NO to a safe place for her to go at play time when she's feeling stressed. They said she won't learn social skills if she keeps hiding away. I told them she in not the right frame of mind to learn social skills when she's overwhelmed and stressed and she needs space to calm down when upset. And she's already hiding in the loos to escape anyway - and she won't learn anything there either.

They'll be no specific social skills groups, or anything they can implement at the moment to help her learn to manage her emotions more appropriately.

The whole thing felt like a bit of a waste of time to be honest.

However we have another meeting booked in for 2 months time. I wonder if her teacher will manage to stay for more than 15 minutes next time

do you mind me asking who the meeting was with? Was the SENCO there?

They're talking bullshit. DS is never forced out onto the playground, he has a special pass to allow him into the Learning Mentors room at break times (and lunch times to eat his lunch in the quiet because of sensory issues around the noisy dinner hall) if he's feeling stressed or overwhelmed, or even if he just cant tolerate the wind or bright sunshine!

TBH, my ds's school only got one thing wrong, dealing with a meltdown, so i actually bought a copy of this book www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1507814860?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00

and took it in, the SENCO copied the info she thought might be useful and gave it to all his teachers, and next time he was getting to that point, implemented all the advice, and managed to stop a meltdown happening!

The SENCO was there and the class teacher who was there for the first half.

The school has a dedicated ASD base, and lots of children with ASD attend. They said the school is well resourced and experienced at dealing with children with these difficulties. And they identified DD's problems last year and asked me to get her assessed.

And yet they're reluctant to put anything in place for her.

I just don't get it.

And they said themselves in the meeting that DD's difficulties mainly manifest themselves in the playground.

But because she's generally well behaved - and she only cries and hides when overwhelmed, stressed and upset- they think they don't need to do anything.

I tried to explain how distressed she often is after school, and how every morning she tells me she can't go to school, that she hates school and she feels sick. She complains of stomach ache constantly, she often can't sleep or eat.

I have been telling them this since reception when she didn't settle in, and I felt like her whole personality changed within a couple of months :(

Ask them to provide you with a copy of the "passport" and if you feel there is anything missing ask for it to be revised.

Yeah that's a good idea mrz I'll do that.

Sorry to hear meeting didn't go well.

My advice would be to read SEND COP. Read page 91 onwards for mainstream schools. Some interesting points in there - especially about what schools school provide and about outcomes for children.

My DS triggers are also playtime. He's had 2 years of lunch club, ELSA supoort and social skills supoort and finally at the age of 10, and in year 6, he's started to socialise with his peers. So guess what? They've adapted the support to help him with this - imagine a young 3/4 when they start doing this and DS is the 10yo version! He also goes and hides, runs off etc. Rather than force it theyve spent along time and a lot of effort helping DS get to the point he's ready to learn to socialise.

I'd email school with a follow up of that meeting, highlighting that you were disappointed class teacher didn't attend full session. Thank them for completeing the passport and ask for a date they aim to complete this by because it was going to be done 2 months ago.

Also ask about SEn register. Children are 'classified' dependent on need. Social, emotional, behavioural, spld, MLD, physical, hearing, visual or asd.
Then smart targets should be set, target, who will deliver intervention, when it will be delivered and how they will measure success. Also a date for when they hope for her to complete this learning by.

The new categories are social, emotional and mental health and sensory and/or physical

Oh yeah forgot about mental health!

The school doesn't do email I'd have to either go and speak to them in person or ring them, but they break up for easter tomorrow so I'm going to leave it for now.

The passport should have been done a year ago, it was around easter time last year that her Y2 teacher mentioned it. So that's a whole year that teachers looking after DD have been unaware of her difficulties. I'm pretty cross about that.

Should DD be on the SEN register? If she is I haven't been told.

As you can see communication isn't the schools strong point.

I feel pretty clueless about what I can ask for TBH. I thought my requests were reasonable but obviously not. Not sure where to go from here except to wait for the next meeting....

It looks like the school is not supporting her very well; I will start looking at other schools

Google the school - it should have an admin/ office email contact. Use that and put senco name and re crafty dd in subject area. Most schools will give you a direct contact address after this so all and sundry don't read email on its way through - especially negative ones!

Welcome to the world of SN parenting - it's a bloody fight we shouldn't have to have - but you have to find some courage and do things you may not feel 'right' doing - for example first thing is NEVER be afraid to rock the boat with an email and a paper trail.

Everytime you feel like you may be about to step on someones toes remind yourself it's for your DD.

I'm just popping on before I go to work in 20 minutes but I'll come back later. I'm happy to give an example email. You dnot have to be rude - that's not what I mean by fight - just send things that are more professional than mummy iyswim?

If, like us, your still at school this week - I hope your dd enjoys her last day.

No I've asked re: email before but I was specifically told the headteacher doesn't 'do' email. I could put it in writing but it would have to be a handwritten letter.

And given they actually admitted in the meeting that they hadn't seen/read the letter from the comm paed from last Nov, I guess they could not read this also.

I've just spoken to the school, they only have one generic email address which isn't really suitable for stuff like this because it can be seen by everyone. So I need to put it in a letter. However they're going to send me a copy of the minutes from the meeting :)

I know this is easier said than done and that change is very difficult but the school sounds so unsupportive and so reluctant to put in place (very) reasonable and (very) simple measures to make your DD's school life better.

Is it time to consider another school?

Tell me to bog off if this is not possible but I am so cross on your behalf, and sad for your little girl, at how badly this school is responding.

It really doesn't have to be like this.