Teacher grabbed my DDs arm and pulled her over

[craftyoldhen]

My DD was queuing up for lunch today, she was upset and crying because her friend was being unkind. There has been a few friendship issues recently

The teacher asked DD what was wrong, and asked her to go to the quiet room with her to talk about it. DD said she didn't want to talk about it - this is because she doesn't trust the teachers any more, she says if she goes to them for help she just ends up in trouble. She tried to walk away, so the teacher said "don't walk away from me young lady", grabbed her arm and pulled her, accidentally knocking her to the floor.

Is this acceptable, especially given she wasn't been naughty, she was just upset? For background she is 7 and has suspected ASD.

But walking away from a teacher whilst they are talking to you is being naughty.

With respect this is not what happened. The teacher asked a question and the child responded. Conversation over.

I'm sure the teacher feels very bad about what happened. I know I've said and done things I have massively regretted at work (just this week I said 'why are you being a bully?' rather than 'why are you bullying?' to a student who had a particular trigger around being called a bully. D'oh. I was shocked at seeing him punch a much younger student in the face. But it set him off on a rampage.) I wouldn't necessarily go in all guns blazing at the individual teacher but I would make it very clear that you are aware that procedure wasn't followed and then the school lied about it and what are they going to do that ensures policy is followed in future. Your daughter made need an individual behaviour/crisis plan.

You must make a formal complaint to the governors about your DD's handling and quote their policy to them.

You must also complain to the governors about being lied to.

If they are messing up with this sort of thing, what else is happening? Why is your DD unhappy at school?what are they doing to support her?

A child with ASD or suspected ASD would probably not like being cornered by staff, might struggle with having attention/eye contact off a lesser known person, wouldn't like being touched, would most likely struggle to lie and would be very factual about any incidents. Staff should be aware of the best way to deal with any issues that come up and it does sound like it was handled badly.

The only time restraint should be used is when the child is in real danger.

Physical intervention can be used to prevent the child being harmed, causing harm to others, damaging property, committing a criminal act or to maintain good order.

Clearly none of the above were the case in this scenario, Keturah.

Maintain good order? If you need to use physical force to maintain good order within a group of children, you are in the wrong job. Anybody grabbed your arm in the street or at work, it would be assault

I think the good order thing is more if a disruptive child refuses to leave the classroom or go to the head's office or whatever, teachers are able to physically move them.

She acted against the school's own care and control procedure, so no she shouldn't have grabbed my DD's arm in this situation. I'm still trying to decide what, if anything, to do about it. I don't want to go to governers or make a massive fuss, so I'm just wondering if it's worth going to talk to them about it again or just forget about it but seethe inwardly and add to my mental list of grievances with the school

Talk to the actual teacher maybe?

Why don't you want to raise it with the governors? I knows you don't want to make a fuss but if I was a governor I'd want to know so I could help sort things out

You have to see the potential risk, yes she may have only grabbed the child's arm to prevent her from walking away but what if she has seriously injured herself from the fall?! Not on

Had*

If your dd is unsteady on her feet and touch-sensitive, do you think she yanked her arm away and that made her lose her balance?

I probably would go and talk to the teacher about it - perhaps the school need to talk to the lunchtime supervisors about your dd's needs.

Out of interest, how do you think the teacher should have handled your dd walking away?

I can totally imagine how the teacher manage to knock her to the floor, because I know what DD is like. She's very floppy (hard to explain, imagine Mr Soft from the old softmint advert) so if somone grabbed her when she wasn't expecting it she will have been knocked off balance.

She could have handled it any number of ways:

• accepted DD didn't want to talk about it and let her go
• asked her to stop walking away and to come to her (DD is generally obedient when she understands what's required of her)
• physically blocked her way by standing in front of her
• spoke to her in a nice calm manner instead of angrily
• got down to her level to talk to her
• used gentle guiding hands instead of grabby ones

All things you would do with a younger child I guess. Although she's in year 3 she operates at a much younger level socially and emotionally.

I've decided not to complain about this further, but i now have a meeting booked with her class teacher and the SENCO next week to discuss how the school can better support DD. I will raise general concerns with how DD is being handled then, as there are a number of other things that have happened that I'm not happy with either.

Good luck with the meeting. I hope you get the answers you need.

I think its a shame you aren't making a formal complaint. You should really be setting an example to your DD and teaching her to make a stand when things are clearly wrong.

Well you sound completely reasonable to me, and it may well be more useful to raise this at a meeting about your dd's needs and when you are not in the first stages of reaction. If you don't want a particular outcome (such as an apology) there's no rush.

Wish you the best of luck

Crafty:

I hope this doesn't result in further furore - but just wanted to add my best wishes to your daughter & you and profusely apologize once again regarding the offence my earlier posts & terminology has caused.

I'm going to try this again - what I was trying to convey was:

As a society we need to have a discussion about resourcing, time demand, support for the full and varied range of ALL pupil's needs - whatever they might be. There has been enough discussions here on MN primary to know that many parents worry or definitely feel their children aren't being fully supported by their teacher/ school (ability issues or not). Rightly or wrongly, it has been my experience (within state sector schools) that schools are left to handle all sorts of issues (often in splendid isolation with limited support or training) and can seriously struggle to meet all pupils' needs.

I choose not to see it as 'failing to meet children's needs' but as struggling to do so. I also don't necessarily feel more money (taxes) is the answer - I think isolation is part of the issue - and improved networks (support/ training/ services) can be a solution.

I deeply regret that my old fashioned use of language has detracted from this point or led some to believe that I do not support your desire to have your DD in a mainstream school, Crafty. That was definitely never my intention.

PSBD

Past what you don't seem to understand is that this has nothing to do with 'desire to have my DD in mainstream'.

My DD has no choice but to go to mainstream school, she certainly wouldn't qualify for a specialist school, she doesn't even qualify for any extra support within mainstream.

She is a good pupil, and certainly no different from her peers in most respects. Her teachers tell me she is very well behaved, has a particular talent for literacy, writes brilliant stories and they love her enthusiasm for topic work. She is the quiet geeky child that works hard and keeps out of trouble.

IF she does end up with an ASD diagnosis she will be considered high functioning.

She belongs in the school as much as any of the other pupils, there is simply no specialist provision for children like my DD, and I don't think there should be either.

I fully expect her to go to mainstream secondary, university if she wants, and eventually get a job in a mainstream workplace.

The biggest threat to her wellbeing is to her mental health because people like you make her feel like she doesn't belong, and resent her for being a bit different.

Well said crafty your dd sounds a lot like my ds2 who has high functioning aspergers. I agree with everything you just said.

Ignores tomandizzy