Teacher grabbed my DDs arm and pulled her over

[craftyoldhen]

My DD was queuing up for lunch today, she was upset and crying because her friend was being unkind. There has been a few friendship issues recently

The teacher asked DD what was wrong, and asked her to go to the quiet room with her to talk about it. DD said she didn't want to talk about it - this is because she doesn't trust the teachers any more, she says if she goes to them for help she just ends up in trouble. She tried to walk away, so the teacher said "don't walk away from me young lady", grabbed her arm and pulled her, accidentally knocking her to the floor.

Is this acceptable, especially given she wasn't been naughty, she was just upset? For background she is 7 and has suspected ASD.

Have you read the thread tomanddizzy or just the OP?

tom have my first .

Regardless of whether she walked away (she didn't, the queue moved forward), the original question was to whether the teacher was appropriate in their action. The teacher grabbed her DD's arm. That is inappropriate unless the behaviour is likely to cause harm or injury either to the child or those around her. Many of us who actually have experience of physical restraint of children have said this. She wasn't any harm not was she harming others. Being disruptive (if she was, none of us know because we weren't there). The teacher should not have grabbed her.

Going to the quiet room doesn't automatically suggest she is being very disruptive. I may ask a child to have a chat somewhere more quiet because they may want to talk in a calm place or in a one to one situation.

You have no idea why her DD feels like she gets in trouble when she talks to teachers. Her interpretation of 'trouble' could be completely different from yours. It could be that it lands her in trouble with her friends. Stop making assumptions based on zero knowledge.

I don't even know where to start on the rest of your post. I find your attitude very unpleasant.

I also don't think you know very much about autism and how it can manifest itself in a huge variety of ways in each individual.

You know what, have another .

tomandizzymum, crafty has said that the problem was that in her DD's mind the conversation was at an end and that was why she walked away (as in, moved off with the rest of the queue that she was in, which was now walking away as a group). Also that her DD is generally obedient when she understands what's required of her and if the teacher had asked her to leave the line and to come back (rather than grabbing her out of the line) she would probably have done so.

Hypothetically, you have a child with ASD who needs more reinforcement and teaching of some social norms because they don't automatically "get it". And they don't have an actual ASD diagnosis yet (this doesn't affect whether they actually have ASD or not), so no statement, no extra funding, no extra support, no actual extra lessons on appropriate behaviour or one-to-one modelling. Why would you be "furious" with them for misreading a social cue? It's like being furious with a deaf child who can't hear the difference between "cut" and "cup".

crafty and spring Well said!

Yet again past you demonstrate your ignorance.

The OP has a little girl who was treated inappropriately. That's it really. You seem intent on grinding your particular axe on inclusion when it is neither relevant here nor accurate.

Her daughter was not treated in the way that she should have been. She wasn't treated in the way that a caring, professional adult would deal with an upset 7 year old; her needs were not met because the teacher chose to disregard the child's calmly stated right not to speak. Her daughter did not disobey a teacher's directive - she answered the question "do you want to talk", with "no". An entirely reasonable response.

past Your views are archaic, insulting and offensive to many. I note that your full username is PastSellByDate. Never has a username been more fitting. You are a dinosaur!

(No doubt that will be edited out by MN as a personal attack!)

tomanddizzy

You must be reading a whole other post. Either that or the idiocy is catching!

I would be furious if my children behaved like this at school and caused such disruption that required an adult to manhandle them.

She was asked "if" she wanted to talk about it. She said no. She was in a moving lunch queue. Where is the disruption?

Beam me up!

She thinks talking to the teachers when she's upset gets her into trouble because she says they always tell her she's crying for a silly reason, and blame her for getting upset so easily. So she feels like she's somehow 'in trouble'.

No I didn't read the whole post. I'm answering the question.

Was the teacher right to grab? No of course not.

But under normal circumstances as those described a teacher would not grab a child. Also this event would have been witnessed by other adults (given it's a lunchroom) so if said teacher was in the wrong, the school would have informed the parent, andshe wouldn't even need to be asking here.

Does a teacher grabbing a child that was doing nothing wrong make psychological sense? No it doesn't, so I concluded that the child was not being ok and this is not the whole story.

Logic.

Tomanddizzymum are you under the impression that no teacher ever does something inappropriate? and that if, by some miracle, a teacher makes a mistake, all schools are meticulous in reporting such incidents?

Very faulty logic tomanddizzy! Puzzled face right back at ya!

Read what the OP has said subsequently. Filling in the blanks yourself is not proving too reliable.

Goodness me tomandizzy what on earth gives you the impression that children with ASC are disruptive and naughty. What is being disruptive about saying no, quietly and refusing to go to the quiet room. Teachers can infact be difficult and children (particularly children with additional needs) often end up in trouble when they express their concerns. Children with ASC ( I did explain that it isn't a disorder) do not need lessons on appropriate behaviour, they may sometimes need some extra help interpreting behaviours and how to react to said behaviours. Teachers need far more training in how to make life easier for pupils with ASCs and obviously so do some parents. Now, do tell me your area of expertise with regard to education, it obviously is not in the area of additional needs.

Oh, and with regard to this remark: It should certianly NOT be reinforced that they are being normal and other people's reactions are the unreasonable ones. Are you not embarrassed showing such abominable and appalling ignorance on a public website, I know I would be.

But under normal circumstances as those described a teacher would not grab a child.
Bloody nonsense.

"...so if said teacher was in the wrong, the school would have informed the parent, and she wouldn't even need to be asking here."

Oh, please!

I have the deepest respect for our schools and teachers but just like you tom they sometimes get things wrong.

"When they are not being appropriate they need to know it, they need to be told and be taught what the correct ways are."

tom You're being inappropriate!

tomanddizzy it took place in the yard as they were lining up to go into lunch. You really need to read the whole thread or you just sound like a bit of a div.

'Children with ASD need more lessons on appropraite behaviour. It often takes longer for them to learn and their behaviour needs more reinforcement and teaching. When they are not being appropriate they need to know it, they need to be told and be taught what the correct ways are. It should certianly NOT be reinforced that they are being normal and other people's reactions are the unreasonable ones. '

Do you actually believe that this is an appropriate suggestion to post Tomanddizzymum? Where on Earth does your understanding of ASD come from?

OK I'm a div then.

If this happened to my child who IS diagnosed then I wouldn't brush it off and be convinced that the teacher was in the wrong and my child was innocent.

It doesn't work that way. It is a long hard road. Every day you have to teach teach teach and it is nothing like raising a normal child.

Take the bull by the horns and use the experience to help your child or leave it. Your call

Calling me a div is low and uncalled for.

tomandizzy if your child has a diagnosis and you aren't listening to him/her, I am concerned. I work in the field, and I have three children with a diagnosis. I am concerned that you use normal child rather than neurotypical. It's not the best way to define a child with ASC.
As for taking the bull by the horns, that's what everyone here is doing, we are using our experience with our own children, because we are aware that when you've met one child with an ASC, you've met one child with an ASC. Our children are as diverse as neurotypical children and our experiences with them let us know when they are in trouble and having difficulty and when they're not. It's so very important to them that home is safe and that they will get a fair hearing.

The OP has spoken to the school and they agreed with her dd's statement of what happened. So that's not really the dispute. The problem here is that the teacher did not follow their own policy and procedure (which the school then lied about - because they said she did, and the OP has already noted this is incorrect). So... in essence, the school has agreed that the teacher did what dd said, but they are quite wrongly stating that the teacher's actions are okay, which they are not.

Children with ASD need more lessons on appropraite behaviour...It should certianly NOT be reinforced that they are being normal and other people's reactions are the unreasonable ones

So much wrong with this, especially the whole "it should certainly not be reinforced that they are being normal"

God, it just defies belief on MN some days.

guys:

still just using the one username and ? some others sticking to just the one.

I don't think the name calling (to me/ to tom/ to others is helpful in the slightest).

MN I really think you need to take stock - especially in light of tonights special WEBchat.

Being quite ancient - perhaps it's time to retire.

PSBD

"still just using the one username and ? some others sticking to just the one."

Yawn!!!

And can't for the life of me see why you are referencing Jon Ronson's book, 'So you've been publicly shamed'.

You shamed yourself past with your bigoted, offensive and archaic views that are here for all to see.

Take some responsibility and get over yourself!

Dawndonnaagain where on earth do you get that I don't listen to my child? My son is thriving, he's not just living under a blanket label that isn't even fully understood, he's slowly and lovingly being raised to function at his best in a society that will not really care that he's different. I will do anything to help with this and teaching him social cues and behaviour patterns is having a positive affect. He may not truly understand why something is the way it is, at least he's learning that he sees it differently and that or the thing itself doesn't have to upset or frighten him. I use all opportunities, good or bad for this. I believe his meltdowns are far far far easier to deal with now because of this approach.