Teacher grabbed my DDs arm and pulled her over

[craftyoldhen]

My DD was queuing up for lunch today, she was upset and crying because her friend was being unkind. There has been a few friendship issues recently

The teacher asked DD what was wrong, and asked her to go to the quiet room with her to talk about it. DD said she didn't want to talk about it - this is because she doesn't trust the teachers any more, she says if she goes to them for help she just ends up in trouble. She tried to walk away, so the teacher said "don't walk away from me young lady", grabbed her arm and pulled her, accidentally knocking her to the floor.

Is this acceptable, especially given she wasn't been naughty, she was just upset? For background she is 7 and has suspected ASD.

If this happened to my child who IS diagnosed then I wouldn't brush it off and be convinced that the teacher was in the wrong and my child was innocent. This, Tom rather gave that impression, the seemingly immediate assumption that your child was in the wrong. No investigation, nothing, just an assumption that he has wrongly interpreted.
I am glad that he is doing well though, and that what you have in place seems to work for him. That unfortunately isn't the same for everyone. As I said, I'm in and out of schools and the bullying, misunderstanding and lack of training surrounding ASCs is really quite scary. I had rather hoped the OP would have had more support from those with experience, not condemnation based on one persons experience. Perhaps an acceptance that it is hard for all of us and that we don't all have good experiences with the education system would further your discussions with others.

agreed but IF the OPs child has an ASD they will be extremely high functioning. She has a friend for example, I know my son really struggles in this area but is also capable of this. It's a good sign so we're not talking about a 5 year old on nappies are we? And yes I do have experience of ASD, I'm just not mainstream in my thinking. A bit of a rebel actually.

a 5 year old in nappies doesn't mean that 5 year old has ASD, could have a bowel of bladder issue. Wow

Yes the five year old in nappies was silly. Just thinking of a specific child that's on the AS but that wouldn't cope with complex things I teach my son. Just an example. A very silly one I admit.

Actually there is a lot of overlap between the high functioning skills they are not just academic and basic life skills.

Difference at the neurological level occurs in every human being. Not every person with autism displays biological (fixed) neurological differences and even when they do there are massive variations and many in common with other disorders. It's not as simple as that.

It's not a disorder. How many times.

UK uses ASC, other countries don't. Not my problem or even concern.

crafty
Your opening post took me back 15 years to when my DD was in a similar situation.
'Friendship issues' meant two really nasty bullies lying about her. There was quite a lot of physical stuff too which was shoved under the carpet.
She lost trust in teachers completely which probably made her appear surly and so compounded the problem because she was always put in the wrong and made to apologise for things she hadn't done.
To cut a very long story short, we moved her to another school where she was blissfully happy from the day she walked in.

She had developed a finely tuned radar for dodgy teachers though. These are ones who allow the class to be dominated by the personalities who are disruptive if they are not kept placated. A weak teacher will avoid a confrontation with one of those more powerful pupils but tries to exert authority too heavily over less assertive pupils.

In your DD's case the school will be closing ranks over this incident like a knee-jerk but they know the member of staff involved is utterly in the wrong and probably a liabilty. It is some thing tangible which you could make a legitimate complaint about.

But the real issue is why a seven year old is unhappy and distrustful. Don't be distracted from focussing on that. It's less tangible but far more important.

I've been dwelling on something and as I'm up so I thought I'd just put it out there:

Crafty has said she has to weight 18 months for her DD to see a specialist.

I'm not sure where Crafty is based - but first off that seems a really long time - so is that normal?

Crafty is this referral through the school - I'm presuming it is - but if it isn't would that mean that some of the staff aren't aware of your suspicion that your DD may be mildly on the autistic spectrum?

If there are teachers out there - how do you handle this not yet diagnosed stage with children?

Crafty I have repeatedly apologised and have tried to explain that I have no issues with inclusion of children with disabilities in mainstream schools and my children happily go to schools where its quite normal practice and no big deal. I realise that my initial post was not well worded, that I formulated a conclusion on your post based on my experiences and have projected it onto your child. I have accepted why Not could see it in the very negative light and have repeatedly apologised.

Not has chosen to post views s/he's interpreted I might hold from my post and reprimand me repeatedly here, refusing to accept my age and nationality may be a factor in my choice of wording and that my reply was written in haste, and probably should have been thought through more carefully.

I made a suggestion about what could have transpired - I accept it is not based on any direct knowledge - only that my own children have had days when teachers have said/ done things that I can only chalk up to mistakes/ stress/ having a bad day. I do accept the point that as professionals they should keep their cool always work to best practice - but I can only speak as I have found. I am pleased that in some places (I guess Not-land) teachers are at all times professional and always do/ say the right thing. It hasn't always been the case here.

I have been told by IONA at MNHQ that it's 'not sporting' to out someone on MN - but I would just suggest that Not does not limit themself to one username (as I do) and that many posting here are definitely not regulars to primary talk.

I find what has transpired very odd. I'm also not clear why a separate post on secondary asking for ideas on maths support for DD1 (which I've personally found very useful and has resulted in a solution we are really happy with) should be brought up here Not nor how on earth you can suggest that anywhere in that discussion I suggested what you have espoused I believe here. (for those curious the feed is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2329423-state-comprehensive-secondary-schools-stretching-able-pupils-opinions?pg=1)

For the record - Not is entitled to his/ her interpretations of my views but they very definitely are not accurate.

I would ask those reading Not's replies to accept that this is not the first time Not has reacted strongly to my posts nor resorted to personal insult.

It's a little hard to take on board some of the righteous indignation when simultaneous to this discussion and my use of 'disabled child' & 'ASD' (which by the way the OP used first) - the same terms have been used repeatedly on another discussion about autism on primary talk and none of these fine folk seem to be appearing there to express their outrage? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2333591-Disabled-son-not-being-offered-a-school-place

Curious and curiouser. I watch with interest - are you really that upset about my use of language? I do so hope to see you on the other feed

In the meantime my only comment is this kind of behavior is going to make people who wish to offer help or opinion think twice - and that goes totally counter to what MN should stand for.

I believe it is possible to agree/ disagree with someone's views respectfully. I understand that in certain situations emotions can run high - parents can be angry/ teachers can be dismissive/ people can put their ideas out there badly worded.....but I would put it to all of us participating in this discussion that some of the behaviour in this discussion certainly is not doing MN any favours.

I have been told by IONA at MNHQ that it's 'not sporting' to out someone on MN - but I would just suggest that Not does not limit themself to one username (as I do) and that many posting here are definitely not regulars to primary talk.

past Are you unwell? What has this got to do with the point of the thread?

You have mentioned me 8 times in your last post when many others have also disagreed with your poisonous views. Now I like a bit of attention but this looks like the work of the unhinged.

You do not have the monopoly on posting; Some of us have lives and therefore do not monitor threads in the forensic way that seems to be your want. Where does it say that one has to be a "regular" anyway to post? YOU DO REALISE THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM RIGHT?

You have made a fool of yourself and are looking for someone to deflect attention to.

I have said many times that I previously posted as RasinBoys. I have also said that I am no longer raising just boys hence the name change. SO OUT AWAY!

If you want to make weird middle of the night ramblings LEAVE ME OUT OF IT! You have already been warned by MN headquarters about the content of your posts.

MN headquarters - reign her in!

If you have been told by MN that you shouldn't "out" people then why the comment about somebody using different names? And I might point out that everyone is allowed to post not just "chat regulars". If you feel the need to accuse someone of breaking chat guidelines then report it. Don't drag it onto the thread.

Not, if you want MNHQ to take a look, report your post.

Mine are way past primary school, but I am very experienced with regard to ASCs which is why I came on here. However, whilst we're on the subject of age and language. I'm 56.

Yes we were first referred when ds2 was in year 5 now in yr 8 and getting diagnosis. He is high functioning, gifted and talented intact which has made it harder to get help as he does well academically but that is in spite of his difficulties. It's a long slow process.

Yes I believe 18 months wait for initial assessment is not unusual.

She was referred for assessment by the school via GP.

It's the school who suspect she has ASD, I was blissfully unaware, although I agree with their concerns.

So they should be aware of it. I believe teachers are supposed to take into account the child's presenting difficulties regardless of diagnosis. So DD should be treated as having social communication difficulties despite having no official diagnosis.

DS has been on list since June 2013. They reakon his assessment will be June this year!

As for school, they treat DS as autistic. His IEP, his behaviour stategies, social srories etc are all based on working through and trying things recommended for children with asd. It's just a case of finding what works for him. They also have him registered on Sen register as asd and spld under the new sendcop IEP regulations.

For the posters who have children with ASD in mainstream, what support has been put in place for your child?

I'm wondering what I can reasonably ask for in the meeting next week....

I don't think she needs much, but I'd like the following:

• teachers that do playground duty made are aware of her difficulties, and know to use clear language and to check she understands
• teachers are aware that if she's crying she's probably quite stressed and doensn't know how to deal with the situation, and may need help. They don't minimise her feelings and or blame her for crying
• help with her social communication skills
• give her strategies to help her control her emotions, or know what to do when she's feeling stressed
• give her a place she can go to where she feels save when she's getting upset or stressed at playtime/lunchtime. This is one of her main problems, she keeps hiding in the toilets or by the lockers, and then gets told off for being inside when she shouldn't be.

Do these sound ok/reasonable?

All staff (not just teaching staff) to be made aware of difficulties and the impact it has on her daily life eg. struggling with friendship groups, unclear instructions etc.
Discuss feelings if she wants to, but not to dismiss any reactions no matter how the member of staff perceives them.
Help with social communication skills via the medium she chooses.
Red card system, provide with a red and yellow card that she can use. Yellow card goes on desk if she is distressed and able to tell staff she is distressed, red card if she can't talk, followed by exit to safe space. Staff to give her five minutes and then try to discuss problems.
A quiet area that she can eat lunch in with two friends of her choosing. Again, safe space available at play/lunchtimes.
A nominated member of staff (one with whom she feels safe, so she chooses) to whom she can go when distressed.

Ensure all instructions are explicit. Ensure she has fully understood, using her name when calling her attention to something to ensure she has engaged. eg: "Crafty's dd, which page are we on next" Ensuring she hasn't been to literal in interpreting instructions. Explaining idioms clearly. (I will never forget the day I offered ds chocolate and when he declined I said: 'You're not your father's son, then" Oh dear, that took a while to sort! No more than three instructions in at once.
Allow time for her to process requests, and extra time for writing tasks.

Ds gets:

Nurture group 2 afternoons a week where they do small group and individual work on socials skills and emotions.
ELSA support when needed.
Lunchtime club daily.
Small group literacy support.
Individual literacy support and scribe.
Toilet token if he needs to go he just goes.
Card to put on wall if he needs to leave classroom.

All staff are aware of his difficulties. This has been an issue and I've had to flag up their failures of giving supply etc his IEP which says asd, spld and his targets as well as a box entitled what I need to help me and how you can help me.

Once she has a diagnosis, she should be able to get 25% extra time in exams, including key stage if she is doing them.

My niece gets:

• Nurture Group once a week for social skills development. NT children also attend.
• Card system similar to that described above. This has been really helpful as she hates drawing attention to herself by putting her hand up. She just places it on the table to get her teacher's attention.
• One of the Learning Mentors is designated as the person she can go to if she needs to.
• Playground supervisors initiate group games at lunchtime.
• There is a quiet lunch area outside and a '3rd space' inside that she can retreat to at playtime if she needs to. Her school has a (tiny) sensory room in it - just a few light tubes and floor cushions in. She hasn't needed it thus far.

DN is doing very well. These simple mechanisms have ensured that she enjoys school and is making excellent progress.

She doesnt need a diagnosis to get extra time in primary school.