Is it normal for 'challenging' children to receive rewards when they are just doing what is normal and expected behaviour of the rest of the class?

[SafeAsHouses]

Hope my question doesnt offend anyone....but it just seems to be happening alot recently in my sons class, and its tricky trying to explain to him why the kids that are disruptive and muck around in class (as per my DS, I know not everything kids say is strictly true!), seem to run out of school each week with stickers / rewards / child of the day etc, because they managed to do something that is expected of the rest of the class 100% of the time.

Surely there is a better, more fairer way to reward?

Read the parable of the 'Prodigal Son' perhaps. I'm not a Christian but one of the messages I take from it is that kindness - with the result that an individual can be re-integrated into the community sometimes outweighs justice.

Classrooms are little communities - and being part of a community is sometimes hard - for everyone in it.

Don't criticise the teacher or the system in front of your DS - but reassure him that you know he does his best and if he knows he does his best that's all that really matters.

Perhaps you could try to encourage him to feel that he is the lucky one - he knows how to behave well - whereas the others don't and only
manage to get stickers for things that your DS doesn't have to try at.

It's a tricky one isn't it? I sympathise.

It's not missing the point at all. ASD is a disability. Even more so when the child is supported as badly as the one you are talking about appears to be.

I don't even think it necessarily has to do with "being naughty"

Reception especially, there will be kids who literally turned 4 the day/week before cut off. The gap between 4 and 5 is HUGE! Age is not an excuse for bad behaviour but it explains why some struggle. Because they were probably still napping just a few weeks before. Because some are probably barely out of nappies and have just come from pre school/nursery where set up is totally different.

Some kids adapt better than others. It's a huge deal to be at big school and they don't always had the maturity to deal.

There is a child in ds(y1) class. He frequently misbehaved and hit other children on a number of occasions. Until recently, he was always "in red" - the consequence for bad behaviour. His mother told me a couple of weeks ago that the teacher / senco were going to try something different. Now, he gets a sticker for not being naughty and you'll never guess what the result was. His behaviour is improving.

My dds will say that xxxx struggles with sitting still and listening, or yyyy finds something else hard - but because they tried really hard they were mentioned in assembly or got house points. They seem to understand that some children struggle more to achieve things that come naturally to them, and that being rewarded for those things is ok.

I think it's a good system - if it's explained to all the children and the "invisible middle" are included.

But, a teacher with 30 or more kids, some of whom are demanding and some of whom are compliant, can only do so much.

That's why my kids (middlies to a man) think that "it's not fair" - because, they don't understand that the disruptive children have a different perception of how to behave. Teacher can't explain because of confidentiality - so, instead, they learn that some kids have one set of rules and some kids have others.

I've no idea what the solution might be.

not SEN, just chav by the way

jesus, that's a low point.

My kids tell me that x has a special desk with lots of fun things to help him concentrate - 'he's so lucky' - and that y has a special group to help him play nicely. We have always talked about how x and y need help to behave nicely and that it is harder for them to do sitting down or concentrating or whatever. I think this is part of teaching your child emotional intelligence actually.

Having said that, my kids have been to two schools and both have been very liberal with the stickers and awards. So both dds have been frequently rewarded, praised and so on. I'd say the problem in your child's class is not that other children are getting rewards but that he feels overlooked. In that case, I might have a chat to the teacher and let them know that he is struggling or was feeling a bit sad about it.

can you not explain to your children, that some people have a harder time trying to behave, or sit still or concentrate - that people have different challenges, and if they can conquer those challenges then it is nice when they are rewarded, and it will help them to work harder to do the things they struggle with?

Just read your comment about your child rarely reaching gold, but being a joy to teach. I would definitely point that out - nicely, calmly, helpfully - to the teacher. It must be sooo hard to recognise each child and a good teacher would surely want to know that a child is feeling under-valued. My kids' teachers would definitely respond to this, but they really do believe that 'every child matters'.

crossposted with swoosg - 'emotional intelligence', yes that is a good way of putting it.

Perhaps if you have a chat with the teacher to explain that some of the better behaved children are feeling left out and maybe there could be a little parity. Explain to your son that you and the teacher appreciates his behaviour and lack of stickers doesn't diminish that. You probably praise your children as a matter or normal life, whereas some children receive none in their home environment.

Your son sounds mature for his age so the ASD issue could be explained in terms of the SN and the way the other child perceives the world. We all need to be more accepting and reasonable.

I completely agree with rewarding good behaviour in children who have behavioural issues. Far better to get attention in a good reward way, rather than a lot of negative attention which they would otherwise get.

Often children seek attention of any kind so surely positive attention is what every adult should aim for?

DO NOT get me started on this....Let's just say I Home Ed now....Twisted system of rewards in some schools IMO...

When my son was in Y2 (he's now 16) - he mentally opted of the school reward system informing me that it was not for boy's like him (well behaved and capable) but was for children "who found it difficult to sit still or found work tricky" - having worked that out, he was quite happy not to receive stickers and did not want any certificates he received displayed.

My daughter, however, was bothered. I teach young children and always try to reward those children who "do the right thing" all of the time. I rarely give out stickers and, if I do, it is for something specific.

Yes I think you're right Swoosg, he does feel over-looked. We do alot of explaining about his friend with ASD - he does understand, but he still finds it unfair at times (in his mind), particularly the kids that are not SN but simply disruptive and lack behaviour & manners.

I think there is a middle ground that is ignored in classrooms, and I feel sad about it.

I started the thread to see if anyone else had anything brilliant working in their school that was an alternative to just handing out stickers / traffic lights. Judging by the responses, a large majority of parents have had children who also felt that 'its not fair', but there doesnt appear to be any great alternative.

All children have a different 'baseline' of behaviour I guess, regardless of SEN or being disadvantaged, so the kids rewarded for what is perceived as 'normal' behaviour are still achieving above their baseline, which is desireable. It's incredibly difficult for children who have a naturally higher baseline to witness and of course they're not going to understand (or the parents often) but as someone else said, we exist in a reward based society. There's no easy answer.

My ds' pre school teacher explained it really well. Like this.

We all go to school to learn, even the teachers. We all find some parts of learning easy and some parts difficult. Child X has lots of learning to do about how to behave well in class and around other children. Child Y has lots of learning to do about maths. When child X shows they've learnt something about behaving, they are rewarded. When child Y shows they've learnt something about maths, they are rewarded. We all earn our rewards for different things.

I have one dc who finds it easy to 'do the right thing' and one that doesn't. I've used the explanation above with my own dcs and those I teach and it's been clear and understood every time. I realise how frustrating it can be for some children however.

Thats very useful missbetsey, I will use that with my DS....

SafeAsHouses

No there doesn't seem to be any alternatives,

Classrooms are little communities - and being part of a community is sometimes hard - for everyone in it

This is what we didn't want for dds education and don't have this issue now we H.ed. I should put it down on my list of positives.

Hmmmm. I'm not sure why children who are well supported and well behaved need regular rewards for doing the right thing? Surely it should be its own reward. Children like this usually have every advantage because they are from loving, stable backgrounds. Their life chances are pretty bright - unlike those of the children with SEN who probably have to work a lot harder to do the things other children see as normal.

To me it makes more sense to reward the "naughty" ones (if you want to reduce it to this level) for making better choices.

Why do people have the expectation that all children should be rewarded all the time?

Oddly enough, plenty of children with SEN come from loving, stable backgrounds, too. Agreed that, regardless of background, they have to work a lot harder to achieve many things that come naturally to other children, though, and not just the academic stuff.

My son gets 30 minutes of 'golden time' at the end of the day if he has managed to keep calm and do his differentiated work.

Could I give 2 hoots that little Jimmy doesn't get the same rewards? Nope, not in the slightest.

Little Jimmy doesn't have to battle with sensory issues which mean that the classroom is too noisy, the lights are too bright etc.

It is your job as a parent to explain to your child why this is happening, in the same way I explain to my 5 year old why she must sit at the table for dinner but her 7yo brother doesnt.

OP we have a system that is still being refined but I can say that I think it is gradually working better - certainly I hear less complaints from my own kids these days.
There is a system of reward tickets in a number of different colours, each colour mean something different, which is printed onto the ticket e.g. I have been kind, I have been helpful, I have been thoughtful, I worked hard, I have been careful etc something in there that every child can attain to their own level. DS may come home with one in a week, or he might come home with 4 or 5 in a week. Therefore, they must be giving them out to ensure each child is rewarded within their own ability level. I may not even know all the categories as DS has only recently been given some of them - for quite a long time I thought they only had 'I worked hard' tickets. Note it is the emphasis on how hard the child was working, not on what they achieved so can be given out to all levels of attainment as long as the child was putting the effort in.

In that rather crude respect gossamer, and going by what everyone else has said on this thread, how would you feel if I said:

"Do I give 2 hoots that my sons friend has ASD?" or

"Do I give a damn that poor little sonny is from a cr*ppy dysfunctional family and therefore has no idea how to behave in the classroom?".

Nope, I couldn't give a damn about those kids.

THis is what life has turned into - its all about the minorities, whilst the 'majorities' are completely forgotten about.

ps, I would like to add that is NOT what I think life has come to...but a reversal of gossamers post would suggest as such.

OF course I give a damn about other kids, but I find it awful that you don't give a hoot about a 'standard / average / normal' child (call it what you will). Its all about your child, who sadly has sensory issues.

I wrote the thread wondering if there was a reward system that could satisfy everyone, all abilities / disabilities. Appears not in your world - damn the 'able' kids, its all about the kids with disabilities.