Is it normal for 'challenging' children to receive rewards when they are just doing what is normal and expected behaviour of the rest of the class?

[SafeAsHouses]

Hope my question doesnt offend anyone....but it just seems to be happening alot recently in my sons class, and its tricky trying to explain to him why the kids that are disruptive and muck around in class (as per my DS, I know not everything kids say is strictly true!), seem to run out of school each week with stickers / rewards / child of the day etc, because they managed to do something that is expected of the rest of the class 100% of the time.

Surely there is a better, more fairer way to reward?

All kids have their own mountains to climb

But some are taking a stroll through the Chilterns and others are tackling Mount Snowden.

In your opinion.

In a class of 30 with several areas of the curriculum and a whole host of differing home circumstances I'd wager the vast majority have a hefty Everest or two.I also think the very few with a Chiltern to climb still need to be pushed and motivated.

I don't think any kid deserves more or less motivation or praise, but this can be shown in different ways. Every child should be praised for the effort they put in and should be encouraged to do their best- but in this case, their best varies. With stickers and rewards, it wouldn't be fair to reward one kid for doing their best and trying to be hardest, then rewarding the other child for not having to try and put a lot of effort in, purely because they are doing the same. Every child should be rewarded, praised and encouraged but their targets will be different, and if one child has a lower target than another, then that doesn't make the reward meaningless or unfair.

I think it's wrong when children get left out of the rewards. If they put effort into something, they should get rewarded, whether the effort means not disrupting the class like normal, helping a teacher or something else, whether the majority are doing it without effort or not.

I do wonder how people know in such detail who gets what,

This really is, or should be, simple.

OP if you feel the extra efforts your ds is making in his own right are not being recognised and he is demotivated and unhappy, raise it with the teacher.

But it is totally irrelevant to what recognition or reward other children in the class may or may not get. It is not a competition between them.

Rewards are for exceptional behaviour for that child. Children who are perfectly able to do as the expected norm are not doing anything over and above that norm as they are making no exceptional effort. Why should they be rewarded for doing just what comes naturally?

If your ds does something beyond his norm then yes you should expect a reward. But it is not a level playing field, so it makes no sense for a child to get rewarded for just complying with normal rules if there are no reasons why they shouldn't comply with them.

There are hundreds of eloquent, lucid and sensible posts here pointing out the reasons why some children do warrant extra rewards, and I hope you and others have really taken heed of them.

As far as explaining to your child, a conversation could go:

DC: "mum it's not fair x got a sticker today for just sitting down"
Parent: "well x finds it difficult to sit down"
DC: "yes but I sat down and I didn't get a sticker"
Parent: "that's because you don't find it difficult to sit down."
DC: "but why does x find it difficult?"
Parent: "children are all different and some children find it harder than others to do the same thing"

It really is that easy.

LittleMissGreen DS1 had a similar job in year 4 - he'd walk into the classroom and spend the first few minutes of the day with his back to the class, with a marker pen and a chart on the wall. It was very important to him and no one was allowed to interrupt.

Year 4 was probably the best year he's had at school since 4yo nursery.

I think all children should get recognition of good behaviour and achievements.

For children with additional needs completing the simplest of tasks can be an achievement.

But also for someone who's good day in day out, this should be recognised too.
Otherwise really, what's the point? The children get disheartened, as this thread has proved.

This way, there would be none of this bitterness between both sides. There would be no-one feeling left out. There would be no parents having to explain why their DC deserves something.

And I agree with retro all children have their own mountains to climb and just because one child has it harder doesn't mean the effort of the other one should go unnoticed.

In an effort for equality, fairness and a good environment.

Shoewhore those things really can not be underestimated. The boys' school has a similar culture and both boys are adored there. DS1 now has a place at a specialist school and will be leaving shortly, as he has struggled all the way through, but DS2 is well supported and the other children mostly adore him.He is extremely delayed - still on p-scales in year 3 with seriously disordered communication skills, but there are children he loves playing with and they're willingly learning to support him with PECS so that he doesn't have to purely rely on adults to express what he needs. He will have to move to a special school, eventually, but currently, it's a real case of "it takes a village".

Another one who wants to give you shoewhore

Just be glad that your child has a bright future.

A sticker or star of the week is the most some of out children will ever achieve.

Its kind of ironic that you resent children with difficulties being rewarded for doing things that are hard for them yet you think mediocracy should be rewarded;

It still doesnt change my view about wanting rewards for middle of the road kids. Call me selfish, but that's how I feel

Surely they are also just doing what is expected and normal?

Their reward is that they get an education and have a chance of a future.

It really isn't hard to explain to a child either, I remember my son feeling miffed at not getting an award that he felt he deserved, instead it went to a boy who had made improvements in his [poor] behavior. I agreed that he [my son] should have got recognition for his achievements, but pointed out to my son that the award was quite possibly the only thing that other boy would ever get, so he shouldn't begrudge him of it. My son would have many oppourtunities in the future, unlike the other boy.

I don't think you can honestly say that bad behaviour is only the result of children with difficulties and/or difficult home lives. My brother and I had a terrible home life growing up and were never misbehaved. We are also in a small community and know plenty of children with terrible situations in their homes, who also do not misbehave in class, if anything they take themselves in a corner to sob now and then. My children are incredibly sensitive to these children and do lots to help them.

In my experience some of the really bad behaviour is just result of poor parenting and or a total disrespect of authority figures. Our ex-neighbours, both highly paid professionals living in large detached house and driving expensive cars, had two very normal children who just run riot in the village and at school.

Do I tell my children they will have a hard life? No they don't, they have parents who will always support them financially and they will probably get shipped to the local private school and change their ways at some point...but in the meantime they are still wrecking other children's education as well as causing considerable harm to other children for a laugh. I am sorry but I don't feel that much sympathy for those families and there are plenty of those sort of children where I live.

But Soveryupset, if the problem is poor parenting, then the child is not at fault. The school is having to act in Loco Parentis to modify the behaviour if the parents aren't. The best way to modify behaviour is by positive influence (especially as we are talking here mainly of children at young primary level), not by continual negative punishment.

Sovery. You cannot diagnose kids as "normal" crap word btw.
You do not know what is going on with these kids and how their parents are with them.

Yes either way, whatever the cause of the bad behavior, even if it is purely down to poor parenting, you can't say the schools are wrong for trying to address the issue.

Unless you believe that positive praise is wrong and what they need is more harsh treatment.

Whatever the cause, the chidren are not the ones at fault [if there is any fault]

Thank goodness for schools and teachers who care enough about the childs future to try.

So the cure of most disabilities is a detached house and a fast car?

Who knew?

I haven't read the whole thread, or even most of it, but re the original question...

If a parent feels a child isn't getting enough recognition, or simply needs a bit more, they should say so to the teacher. My second dd, in Y1, tended to fly under the radar as a bright, cooperative shyish girl - and at times I needed to flag up her upsets so they got attention (the ones that I judged needed attention, that is!). Now in Y2, she is far more confident and is capable of getting her own attention needs met - but she needed me to be her advocate a little when younger.

Its easy to focus on those getting the attention when one is pissed off at one's own child not getting any. But it is totally irrelevent, and not the issue, IMO. We don't know why some children are behaving the way they are, but if its as much a challenge to them to sit nicely in assembly as it is to my child to woman up and run in sports day (for instance), then they should indeed get a reward for doing so.

Its not a comparative thing. Its an individual need thing.

Someone up thread said why should the child bother behaving if there is nothing in it for them
This is exactly what is wrong with any reward system. We need to encourage children to gain personal satisfaction or be forever at the mercy of external praise
My DS had a wonderful teacher. When he had worked hard on a piece of work he said 'will get a house point' (bloody house points!)
And she said the most important thing it that you are pleased with how hard you have worked and what you have done
I encourage my children to believe what they think about an achievement is more important than external praise or reward

I work with a woman in her 40's who expects constant praise and recognition if she doesn't get it she is devastated, she is very wearing

Really, I hope teachers have better things to do than calculate who deserves a sticker and who hasn't had one today and whose parent might be miffed.

There are too many stickers! Rewards are handed out too readily. Surely a good old-fashioned, "Well done, Egbert. You are sitting very nicely," would be adequate.

When dd was in the infants they started every day with a song, "Give Yourself a Pat on the Back," to reward themselves for being great. And then they all applauded - themselves. I was mightly confused - they hadn't done anything yet! It struck me that a kid could only go down from that point...

'This is exactly what is wrong with any reward system. We need to encourage children to gain personal satisfaction or be forever at the mercy of external praise'

Absolutely. IF THEY ARE CAPABLE of this. So some children are rewarded internally with personal satisfaction. Why should then then get the double reward by receiving a sticker too?

The children that can't for whatever reason receive the reward of internal and personal satisfaction, get stickers and hopefully a plan that moves them over time from less stickers to personal satisfaction. However, you can't be personally satisfied learning to read if you haven't yet mastered the art of sitting still and looking at the teacher occasionally.

'There are too many stickers! Rewards are handed out too readily. Surely a good old-fashioned, "Well done, Egbert. You are sitting very nicely," would be adequate.'

Yes it IS adequate for the OP's child, and that is why he doesn't need and shouldn't get too much in the way of stickers.

For those children for whom a 'well done' is NOT adequate, there has to be a system, based on evidence, to get enough compliance to enable them to learn and not disrupt the learning of others.

The hope lainiekazan is of course that ultimately the child can be weaned off stickers and kept going with praise and presumably gradually not even needing that for very ordinary good behaviour.

I used a sticker system at home with my own kids and i cannot tell you how effective it has been in encouraging the kind of behaviours I want to see such as sharing without a row, being gentle, cooperating when they both want a toy or different programmes. I was sceptical to be honest but it works like a charm...

I continue to be baffled that it is so controversial!

Also worth pointing out that rewards are used mainly to motivate the child, as well as to recognise exceptional effort. Positive reinforcement is the most effective and successful way to motivate someone to repeat the desired behaviour.

But in the future how do you keep them repeating the behaviour without the reward
Both my children have SN and the promise of a sticker for an action that is beyond them anyway would just cause more stress
Thankfully they are now at schools that do not rely on rewards like stickers but look behind the behaviour and try to adapt the approach/environment appropriately

Stickers and rewards ARE environment adaptations.

You need to encourage a child to engage in the behaviours that will benefit them. Only then can you make any attempt to pursuade them of the other benefits to the behaviour.

No-one does anything ever without earning currency of some kind.