Should girls and boys at age 8+ (Yr 4) be changing for PE together?

[Jules2]

My DD (aged 9.5yrs) has recently told me she feels a bit embarrassed having to change for PE in front of the boys in her class. I hadn't given the matter a thought until she raised it. It's not as if she has much to 'conceal' and she certainly doesn't come from a prudish family - I guess it's just the age she and her peers are at now. There are some quite developed girls in her year and some Muslim girls and boys (but I imagine they just stay in their regular clothes). I'm told the policy is the same for all years - even Yr 6. I mentioned it to the deputy head and this was her response:

''It is school policy to require all the children to change in the same room as this is the means by which the teacher can fulfil their safeguarding duties by monitoring any signs of potential neglect/abuse. We advise any children who are becoming a little self-conscious to wear a t-shirt top which does not need to be removed and, if necessary, their shorts under their clothes.''
I'd be interested to hear from parents and teachers about how this is handled in their schools. Is this a common school policy throughout the UK? It seems not to take into account the feelings of the children and is not very practical - e.g. the idea of wearing shorts under your school clothes on a warm/any day - not very comfortable!
Incidentally, my DD's teacher is male and so is the TA who takes PE and is also present when they change. I don't have an issue with this but it seems a bit odd to think they (or any teachers) are 'monitoring' , i.e. looking at children while they change.

Cash is necessary to buy the folding screen isn't it are IKEA giving them away now Anotheronebitthedust?
Then space to put the screen when not in use and when needed?
Staff - Helpers/volunters/parents/work placement students come in all the time in most primary schools -do they?
Other solutions: Two years doing PE together - back to space not enough room if weather is bad

Ikea probably isn't, but freecycle/gumtree might. Or parents looking to declutter. Or workplaces revamping. My office advertises random stuff like that for free to its local council all the time. Even if you had to pay, it would hardly be a huge outlay, would it? Particularly for something that could last several years.

It is a folding screen, so it would..fold away. So behind a door/at the end of a corridor. Or you could use a large blanket/tarpaulin thing (I'm struggling to think of the term) or something instead.

Yes - in the schools I have attended/volunteered at/have friends and family working at, I have always found it is usual to have some helpers, whether those are parents, students, or other volunteers. Maybe not in every class, and every day, but usually some. Of course, those are just my experiences. If you say you have no helpers at all in your school, fair enough.

As someone mentioned above - if raining the other half could read/do art or something. It's only once or twice a week, for an hour.

My point is, not ALL the solutions are possible for ALL schools. However, with a little creative thinking MOST schools could offer some solution. Your point seems to be that a) it isn't possible b) Even if it was possible why should I bother?

mrz - but as you say, some schools ARE managing this. You say you have managed this. So we know that solutions are possible without the need for extra cash and people. Usually just takes some organisational changes.

I'm intrigued to know where the classroom-width folding screens come from and where they are kept? Those suggestions really show that some have no idea how cramped modern classrooms are. I barely have enough space to get between the desks when my pupils are sitting down.

As has been repeatedly pointed out by teachers on here, we DO make provision where it is needed... but it is NOT needed for the majority of cases. There has not been one hint of suggesting that any girl on her period has to change directly in front of any other child.

Comparing PE changing to swimming changing is unfair as we are not stripping to nakedness then drying off when doing PE.

Only because we had a new classroom built which happened to have a walk in cupboard attached - in the days when schools didn't have negative budget increases

but 'provision where it is needed' seems to depend on the individual child/or their parent making a personal appeal to their teacher or the head. Many children would be too embarrassed to do this.

Who are you to decide about 'the majority of cases?' This thread has numerous examples, starting from the OP onwards, who have said that their child/their classmates do feel awkward or embarrassed about the situation. Others (including myself) remember being unhappy about it from our schooling years ago, which suggests it was upsetting enough to stick in the memory.

Several of these posters said that either the children have not mentioned it to their parents, or that they have, and then raised it with the school, but nothing has happened. Obviously anecdote is not evidence, but this does suggest that there are lots of children out there are very unhappy changing but are too embarrassed to mention it.

and incidentally I have been in a number of modern classrooms over the last few years - ranging from old Victorian, to tiny 50s pre-fab style, to purpose built, and yes, while they have been overcrowded, I think I could have fit a screen/two in there. I'm sorry if I'm not describing the type of thing I mean clearly, and of course some classrooms could be exceptionally crowded, but the point I keep repeating is that, for the majority of cases, these issues could be worked around IF the teachers wanted to. However it seems that some posters refuse to see that it is an issue, so, I guess we'll never agree.

I have a question though, what if the children are separated by gender, right; but there are transgendered children in the class, or bisexual, or homosexual children? Certainly if they have reached puberty, they may have crushes on each other.

What if it's the same gender children that do the bullying? Girls are more likely to pick on each other for having physical changes than boys are to pick on girls.

Surely is a primary school age girl is on her period on a PE day Mum could simply send in a letter to get her excused? Or to ask her to be allowed to slip out to the loos?

Unfortunately unless every single child is given their own cubicle to change in, there is no way to prevent every single eventuality.

In all the schools i have been to or worked in, primary aged children do not change for PE. I do not think that children going through puberty should have to change in front of others.

Really puzzled there- how can you do PE and not get changed?

Do you not think that if it was as easy as some posters believe schools would struggle on as they do?

I'm sure they would all change separately after the age of 7yrs if they had space and staff. You can't get over the fact they have neither. They have changed together since primary schools first started- it wasn't thought necessary. (A hall wasn't thought necessary in those days)
One teacher has to get them changed and they can't be in two places at once. What happens if someone is injured while getting changed - slips and knocks themselves out and the parent asks where the teacher was and finds that the teacher was in a different room with the girls? Can the school be sued for negligence?
I still don't know where the second group goes, my guess is the corridor and then they need to be silent. I can just imagine another teacher forever opening their door and asking them to be quiet they are trying to have a maths lesson. Also is it good for visitors to arrive and find half dressed children in the corridor?
Lovely idea but you don't get rooms and extra staff by magic!

Similar to anotheronebitthedust I have vivid recollection of being in year 3 and having hit puberty already. We had to get changed in the classroom, so there was me and another girl who were being stared and pointed at by the boys every PE class. They were all trying to get a look at us whilst we were changing.
We were told off by the teacher for keeping vests on (that helped to conceal our breasts). Use of desks, chairs to hide behind etc didn't help as the boys just kept looking round them. It seemed to make it more of an exciting challenge for them. Our solution in the end was for the rest of the girls to form a human wall round us whilst we got changed to protect us. I hated doing PE as I was self conscious.

Children do notice differences, will try and look and are interested when other children look different. I am saddened to read that 30+ years on from my humiliating experiences that the situation is worse not better.

It had never occurred to me it might be a problem at primary school age, but my dd isn't even 8 yet so not remotely bothered about changing wherever whoever. Perhaps it will become an issue in the future. I do!'t have good changing experiences at school but they were all secondary age, where they had full changing rooms. I recall at primary it was classroom changing all together to year 6 and no one seemed to mind. Actually for me the problems came when forced to get full changed and showered in a gang shower with a load of other girls and teachers - being forced to be naked in front of your peers was much worse than just getting changed from one pair of shorts to another in the vague vicinity of boys. I get that it's about the discomfort, but I really do think the discomfort is int he getting changed in front of others at all rather than in the specifically in front of the other gender.

I think some primary schools clearly need to be more aware of this issue.

It's one of the things that puts girls, in particular, off being active, if they associate it with getting changed in front of others and being embarrassed. I remember being MORTIFIED by communal showers (with the girls, but even so) and gym knickers at secondary school, and only remain active today in spite of school PE, not because of it.

Sorry to be picky but... It is pubescent not pubecent. I think.

Wow! I've just returned to this subject (had some other issues to deal with). Thanks for the amazing response. It is clearly a big issue in primary schools. I'm going to go back to the school and ask them to canvass the opinions of the children and parents - and see if they can't find a solution to the problem, e.g. I like the screen idea - simple and easy to implement.

Children are aware much earlier than they used to be of differences.

My DD was more than happy at 3 to cavort in fountains in London completely starkers - since she was 4, she won't change in public at all - 'someone might see my knickers'. Total PITA that we now have to head for the changing rooms all the time when clothes shopping.

This turned out to stem from lessons at the school nursery on your bits being private and belonging to you etc. - lessons that most of us probably never had when we were at primary school.

Unisex changing after the age of 7/8 strikes me as completely unacceptable today and schools need to start using some imagination to accommodate this.

Given that the teacher has to supervise all of the children - hence the mixed changing - what happens when 3 or 4 of the girls have gone off to the loos to change and one of them knocks themselves out or whatever? Surely they should be supervised too?

At the very least it should be possible to attach one of those retractable washing lines to a wall and then drape a sheet over it? No requirement for storage space and I imagine most parents would be happy to donate towards the very tiny cost.

28 years ago (when I was 10), the girls were allowed to change in the toilets if they wanted to!!
I was already needing a bra at that stage as were a few of my friends.
I would have hated to change in front of boys!! (we were already getting comments about our boobs....)

28 years ago! Seriously has nothing changed????

This is unheard of in America. I'm honestly shocked that there is no privacy in the UK and that everyone is OK with it. When my son told me today that the girls and boys sit in their seats and change into PE clothes in front of each other, it's just a complete lack of privacy. Again, I'm new to expand, I'm from America and am quite shocked at this right now.

I think it's quite difficult subject you can't really generalise by being innocent or being a child. I certainly remember changing in different rooms from boys in upper primary, since we did PE together with other classes, so boys go into room A and girls in room B.
My ds has huge surgical scar and very self-conscious. He is allowed to wear T-shirts. But he is a boy, so it's fine by wearing T- shirts.
I think any children, especially girls who feels self conscious about changing in public should be given a choice to do otherwise.

My class are far more concerned with chatting to each other when getting changed than with feeling self conscious. Lower juniors.

Interestingly, a lot of comments on here are about how self conscious the girls feel, whereas I think the boys can have it a bit tougher.

Girls can very easily stick on shorts or joggers under their skirt before removing it. And can wear vest tops/bra tops that look sporty rather than underwear-y (my 13yo DD loves them) so the matter of undoing a blouse and pulling on a t shirt isn't that revealing. And can mostly be accomplished sitting down.

Boys very rarely wear vests of any kind these days and have to remove their trousers to don shorts or joggers so have more to worry about revealing.

The cloakroom outside my room, which would be easy for kids to change in is right by the outside door, so very chilly in the winter and not a private space either.

The vast majority of kids up to y5, just don't care.

Our upper juniors try to change separately. But room is very limited and what room there is is used for many different purposes so bulky room dividers etc just won't fit or be able to be stored.

ZOMBIE THREAD from 4 years ago.

ikristiina why did you resurrect this?

This is the UK, we do things differently. You may be pleasantly surprised that we don't have vertical gaps down the sides of public toilet doors meaning that public toilets are private spaces, unlike the US, where this is considered the norm.

Because I just moved here and my child told me they change in the classroom with all the other boys and girls and I feel it's an invasion of privacy. This was the first link on google. If you think I'm rude for voicing an opinion, then I find that you were rude for asking why I reopened am old post. Besides the obvious. It's an invasion of privacy. Even 5 or 7 year olds have Human Rights. They're not sheep, to be caged like animals, to have to change in front of the other sex, to just follow brainless orders without their own thoughts of what's right and wrong.