Should girls and boys at age 8+ (Yr 4) be changing for PE together?

[Jules2]

My DD (aged 9.5yrs) has recently told me she feels a bit embarrassed having to change for PE in front of the boys in her class. I hadn't given the matter a thought until she raised it. It's not as if she has much to 'conceal' and she certainly doesn't come from a prudish family - I guess it's just the age she and her peers are at now. There are some quite developed girls in her year and some Muslim girls and boys (but I imagine they just stay in their regular clothes). I'm told the policy is the same for all years - even Yr 6. I mentioned it to the deputy head and this was her response:

''It is school policy to require all the children to change in the same room as this is the means by which the teacher can fulfil their safeguarding duties by monitoring any signs of potential neglect/abuse. We advise any children who are becoming a little self-conscious to wear a t-shirt top which does not need to be removed and, if necessary, their shorts under their clothes.''
I'd be interested to hear from parents and teachers about how this is handled in their schools. Is this a common school policy throughout the UK? It seems not to take into account the feelings of the children and is not very practical - e.g. the idea of wearing shorts under your school clothes on a warm/any day - not very comfortable!
Incidentally, my DD's teacher is male and so is the TA who takes PE and is also present when they change. I don't have an issue with this but it seems a bit odd to think they (or any teachers) are 'monitoring' , i.e. looking at children while they change.

Ooh yes the regulation huge green belly warmer pants Moomin, you could pull them up to your underarms.

Can you see the difference between the body of a 4/5 year old child in YR/Y1 and that of an "early developer" Y5/6 girl (Y4 in some cases) who has breasts, pubic hair and menstruates, mrz? It's not a simple case of "they have child's bodies, and then at age X precisely they all develop adult bodies overnight in perfect synchronisation".

(although, to be fair, just segregating the genders won't necessarily solve the problem of self-conscious early developers as much of the unwanted attention may come from other girls)

I remember the innocence of being a child and not worrying if I showed my knickers when doing handstands against the school wall

do you not think schools are sensitive to the needs of individual children DebbieOfMaddox?

I think it sad if parents get their DCs worrying over privacy and dignity when they are infant age.

Under 8 yrs I can't see why you would want them separate.

Sparkling, good question.

I think in our situation it's quite likely because she shares a room with older sister who is body conscious (as are all her friends).So it's probably a learned thing. But how can you go about unlearning it,that's the trouble!

I certainly haven't encouraged it since I would far rather they were oblivious.

Of course, this then raises the question that if they can learn to be body conscious, what does separate changing facilities teach them at a young age, if not that's there's something to be conscious of.......

It's a minefield really, isn't it!

TamerB I hope that wasn't directed at me, since I have taught mine nothing of the ort.

Well in all honesty having had my first period at nearly 17 it had never crossed my mind. Until my DD1 asked to wear shorts under her skirt and then vests to cover her (very tiny) bit of breast developing and having hair growing etc age 9. She also had her very first periods and was terrified about others finding out.

We moved her and her new school happens to have separate dressing areas so we don't have this issue any longer, but I reckon it was becoming a bit issue for her and something I would have had to raise.

YYTBW it is a minefield. If some of the 'more developed' girls get to change elsewher then you are segregating them and acknowledging it too. Oh I don't know what to think.

At our school y6 have separate boys and girls cloakrooms they can change in - y3 change together, y4 have a biggish corridor/cloakroom which only leads to the Y4 toilets, so no passers-by, so boys change there, girls in the classroom. In year 5 they have PE on the same afternoon, so they all change at the beginning of the afternoon, boys in one classroom, girls in the other and change back at the end of the day, so they do the lesson that isn't PE in their PE kit, with jumpers on if it's a bit chilly.

Still getting changed together in year five. I think it's very insensitive to the more developed girls. There have been real issues with comments about girls bodies and one girl is now allowed to get changed alone. They should be in different rooms to change I think.

There is a difference between public and private. Underwear is private, a bathing suit is public.

Not directed at anyone- just the fact that if small children are used to getting changed together they don't think about it. Mine had baths with cousins and friends when little- they didn't think anything of it. Someone had a thread earlier, but I can't see where it is now, about why take photos of children in the bath- I did when mine were little- they are lovely.

Of course they should have rooms to change - but you tell me where in a small Victorian building that is bursting at the seams with every corner used.

This seems like one of those situations where TAs come in handy Oh so that's why we have TAs in schools!

a really good use for TA time

My thoughts...

We are conflating juniors and infants depending upon what point we want to make. I think it is common sense that later juniors is different than infants and allowances should be made for that.

Childhood innocence is lovely. But the facts are that children are developing earlier and earlier. I don't think they should be shamed and humiliated for it. And, IMHO, forcing a pubescent girl, even a 9 year old pubescent girl to change in mixed company is just that.

What are teaching assistants for if not to help supervise children when one adult is not enough?

I've always found it a huge anomaly that children who take part in dance school shows or other theatre performances have to have separate boys & girls changing BY LAW after the age of 5.

Well normally Teaching Assistants are there to support the teaching in teaching

teachers

...so couldn't they support the teachers in their teaching by supervising half the class to get changed while the teacher supervises the other half?

I expect dance school shows have room- schools don't. There are lots of valuable things that TAs do- supervising children getting changed is a complete waste of their time.

by definition supervising isn't teaching

No a lot ofcthe time there isn't room for separate changing esoecislly in older thestres/ church halls. It can cause problems. But the law says no separate changing, no show