Should girls and boys at age 8+ (Yr 4) be changing for PE together?

[Jules2]

My DD (aged 9.5yrs) has recently told me she feels a bit embarrassed having to change for PE in front of the boys in her class. I hadn't given the matter a thought until she raised it. It's not as if she has much to 'conceal' and she certainly doesn't come from a prudish family - I guess it's just the age she and her peers are at now. There are some quite developed girls in her year and some Muslim girls and boys (but I imagine they just stay in their regular clothes). I'm told the policy is the same for all years - even Yr 6. I mentioned it to the deputy head and this was her response:

''It is school policy to require all the children to change in the same room as this is the means by which the teacher can fulfil their safeguarding duties by monitoring any signs of potential neglect/abuse. We advise any children who are becoming a little self-conscious to wear a t-shirt top which does not need to be removed and, if necessary, their shorts under their clothes.''
I'd be interested to hear from parents and teachers about how this is handled in their schools. Is this a common school policy throughout the UK? It seems not to take into account the feelings of the children and is not very practical - e.g. the idea of wearing shorts under your school clothes on a warm/any day - not very comfortable!
Incidentally, my DD's teacher is male and so is the TA who takes PE and is also present when they change. I don't have an issue with this but it seems a bit odd to think they (or any teachers) are 'monitoring' , i.e. looking at children while they change.

I was just that the previous poster implied that most of the time TAs didn't come in handy or have a more important role to play.

For those saying that the issue is "not being used to changing with boys at home" or similar I am sorry but it is absolute rubbish. My DD1 has 2 brothers and still bathes with them when she feels like it. She has always seen them naked and viceversa.

She spontaneously feels embarrassed though when she has a period, she doesn't want anyone to see her and I don't blame her. It is something new to her and she doesn't even want her closest friends to know about it, never mind make a show of it in front of everyone else.

In addition to this, boys have and do make comments about girls' bodies and I think this makes the more developed girls very uncomfortable. I don't know why boys age 9 feel the need to do this, but the sad fact is that it is a reality. I don't think her brothers have ever made sexualised comments about her and I would be there to police something like that anyway.

I would expect children aged 8 plus to change separately for gym. All of the schools I've worked in have had changing rooms.
I would expect girls of 9 and older not to want to change in front of boys.

You (plural) are arguing against all sorts of straw-men and in my opinion putting words in my mouth.

I assume this is because you don't want to comment on the central issue.

We all agree that infants changing together is no issue.
We all agree that TAs are appreciated.
We all agree that it's a shame kids seem to grow up too soon.

So lets quit violently agreeing about those issues and address the point: Are you happy to force pubescent girls, whatever their chronological age, to change clothes in front of a group of 30 mixed sex children for your convenience?

Are pubecent girls being forced to change in front of 30 mixed sex children?

Yes!

All of the schools I've worked in have had changing rooms.

Very few primary schools have changing rooms. They don't even have enough space for classrooms and have to have mobile classrooms in the playground. Lots were built in 19th century and it wasn't a requirement. There are 3 primary schools in my large village and none have changing rooms.

Year 5/6 need to change separately but it means that the boys go in the corridor and you hope that unsupervised they don't disturb other classes.
Those below that do not need to change separately and there is no case at all for infant classes changing separately, they even used to do PE in vest and pants when I was at school.

The only primary school that I know with changing rooms was previously a secondary modern school dating pre comprehensive education and the changing rooms are now unisex rather than single sex.

Well I can say with certainty all the schools I've worked in have had changing rooms. Older, Victorian schools in my area have put sensible arrangements in place to accommodate separate changing for older children. However that is only my experience.
I would have hoped that schools that are very over crowded would try their best in difficult circumstances.

Interestingly missinglalaland in a thread of 110 posts not one poster has said their pubecent daughter is forced to change in front of others

In my school they change together up to year 4, in year 5 and 6 they change in different rooms.

Just asked my soon to be 9 yr old son and he said they all get changed together - I asked him if anyone seemed bothered and he said

"it's not like swimming where you have to take your pants off! "

How do you feel about the move toward unisex toilets in schools?

I can say with certainty that at the age of 62yrs I have only ever seen one primary school with changing rooms. (6 different areas of the country)

I haven't seen any with room to make them either.

Yes, I feel that really once they are in juniors they should be allowed to change seperately, and most certinly by Year 5.

DD was needing to wear a bra by Y5 and started her periods eary in Y6, and she as not the only one. No way would she have contemplated changing in front of boys by that stage. She was at a girl's primary so wasn't actually an issue, bt know that some juniors don't allow seperate hanging facilities - and tbh if this had been the case for DD I would have gone in to school about it; it was that important to her.

TamerB are you saying I'm mistaken in my assertion? I appreciate that many schools are different but am simply sharing my experience of schools in my area.

mrz - I know of at least 2 primary schools where there wass no facility for seperate changing. I know of a parent who did go in about this -about a year ago. Not sure what the outcome was, so maybe that school has changed its policy now, I dont know.

I know dozens of primary schools including the one my children attended that don't have separate facilities hulababy. My local school has recently been replaced by a new eco build opened in Oct - no changing rooms

mrz - I think it is very different to getting changed into pants and bra in front of your peers at this age than being in a swimsuit on a beach. I think the average girl going through puberty would believe so tbh.

A bikini or swimsuit if mean to be seen in public and prents of girls this age normally buy slightly more covering styles of thicker material, etc. especially compared to thinner cotton knickers and bra which are not generally meant for all and sundry to see. And then comes the issue of young girls dealing with early periods - and having a period is not usually an excuse to skip PE, but they certainly need somewhere to change more privately and certainly away from boys if they so wish. It is not unusual for Y6, and even y5, girls to be develping in these ways.

Mrz - my response was to this:

mrz Sat 08-Mar-14 17:13:51
Interestingly missinglalaland in a thread of 110 posts not one poster has said their pubecent daughter is forced to change in front of others

I would hope they aren't changing into pants and bra Hulababy surely they keep those on and perhaps a sports vest on PE days.

Swim suits and bikinis are generally thicker material because they are meant to get wet and as we know material may become transparent when wet (even swimsuit material).

It's a well acknowledged fact that children are entering puberty earlier and earlier. If year 5/6s are changing together at a school there will statistically be a few girls who have reached puberty. So, there certainly are pubescent girls feeling forced to change clothes in front of boys.

I appreciate the fact that schools maybe old and not designed to cope with this situation, but I really do think it is up to the responsible adults running these schools to find solutions. When the facts change, we have to change. It is not the children's fault. It's our job as grownups to sort it out, however inconvenient.

You seem to have missed my point in your response then Hulababy - perhaps the reason noone has said their pubecent child is being forced to get changed in front of a mixed class is because schools generally have sympathy for individual needs and make other arrangements? (It links to an earlier post regarding individual needs)