Should girls and boys at age 8+ (Yr 4) be changing for PE together?

[Jules2]

My DD (aged 9.5yrs) has recently told me she feels a bit embarrassed having to change for PE in front of the boys in her class. I hadn't given the matter a thought until she raised it. It's not as if she has much to 'conceal' and she certainly doesn't come from a prudish family - I guess it's just the age she and her peers are at now. There are some quite developed girls in her year and some Muslim girls and boys (but I imagine they just stay in their regular clothes). I'm told the policy is the same for all years - even Yr 6. I mentioned it to the deputy head and this was her response:

''It is school policy to require all the children to change in the same room as this is the means by which the teacher can fulfil their safeguarding duties by monitoring any signs of potential neglect/abuse. We advise any children who are becoming a little self-conscious to wear a t-shirt top which does not need to be removed and, if necessary, their shorts under their clothes.''
I'd be interested to hear from parents and teachers about how this is handled in their schools. Is this a common school policy throughout the UK? It seems not to take into account the feelings of the children and is not very practical - e.g. the idea of wearing shorts under your school clothes on a warm/any day - not very comfortable!
Incidentally, my DD's teacher is male and so is the TA who takes PE and is also present when they change. I don't have an issue with this but it seems a bit odd to think they (or any teachers) are 'monitoring' , i.e. looking at children while they change.

Agree completely hulababy. Have made all the same points regarding bathing suits vs underwear.

TamerB are you saying I'm mistaken in my assertion? I appreciate that many schools are different but am simply sharing my experience of schools in my area.

By no means-I believe you, but you are very lucky and it is highly unusual.

Little 3 class Victorian buildings don't have them. They had to get room for inside toilets at some point-that was difficult enough. When I was at primary school we had outside toilets.

Well no - they are changing and end up in bra and pants. And yes - I know why swimsuits are thicker, but the fact remains that because they are thicker and generally more covering they are very different to bra and pants.

My point was that I know of at least two schools who DO (or at least did last year) make Y5/6 girls change in mixed classrooms. So sadly not all primary schools are fully sympathetic to the needs of developing children.

But mrz if you are a 10 year old girl with big boobs, you already stand out and probably won't feel great about trotting off, away from the rest of the group to get changed. It just makes you stand out more.

I vaguely remember being a kid. I never wanted to be obviously different from the rest. I assume most kids are this way.

Therefore, the kindest thing would be to separate the older boys and girls, either in different rooms or with staggered changing times.

I don't understand why this us such an imposition on the teachers.

Most schools only have one or two PE lessons a week anyway, lasting an hour or so each, so why can't they just plan the timetable so YR 5 and 6 do PE either together, all boys and then all girls, (one outside doing games, one in the hall), or, if it's raining or hall too small, one for the first hour then the other straight after. The others could do a non year specific activity in the meantime, like art/reading, etc. Then the girls could change together in one class and the boys in another, both with supervision if needed.

And underwear is very different from swimming costumes. I would be happy to be on a beach in a bikini, but not to be in an office, surrounded by my colleagues, in my (usually) much skimpier underwear, particularly if I had my period, etc.

Like it or not, children are going through puberty much earlier now, so this is something that should be addressed. There's no point putting your head in the sand reminiscing about when you did handstands against the wall not caring about flashing your knickers back in the day.

I don't understand why this us such an imposition on the teachers.

No one is saying it's an imposition.

I can just see the thread on MN "school imposes single sex PE lessons" why can't my daughter play football with the boys if she wants!!!

and Hulababy I had a 10 year old daughter with 32FF boobs

The reticence to consider any option but continuing to have children up to 11 years old change together en mass gives me the impression that it is some how a problem.

Yes it's a problem because unfortunately schools do not have space or staff available to supervise two groups of children in separate locations or the money to provide these ... very different to your remark about "imposition to teachers"

To be fair, I don't know the details at your school.

Your comments are very anti finding any solution. It's just all too difficult to even consider. This gives me the impression that you find it an imposition rather than just another problem that needs solving.

I'm so glad DD is at an all girls school.

I would find this totally unacceptable.

No you don't know the details of my school - the older girls get changed in a walk in cupboard inside the classroom and younger children's individual needs are sympathetically accommodated by all staff.

I would find it unacceptable too. I would have hoped that schools that have no changing facilities would try to problem solve rather than finding it impossible.

Maybe I've missed something here, but it seems those of you saying that mixed changing is fine because the pupils have vests and pants on so are not revealing their bodies are implying that they should be wearing vests and pants all year round...

My 4yo is too hot to wear a vest under her top at the moment. It's 16 degrees here. Are you seriously suggesting that in temperatures of 20, 25 or even 30+, girls should wear a vest under their clothes all day just so that the school doesn't need to segregate the children? And those girls who wear a bra should wear a vest over the top of their bra in order to avoid feeling self-conscious?

Mrz, I'm amazed that you as a primary school teacher feel that your only role is the academic teaching of the children, and that the TAs' only role is to support the academic teaching. Thank goodness our primary school recognises the role that all staff have to play in the emotional and social development of the pupils, regardless of the curriculum requirements in this respect. Seriously, 10 mins of a TA's time to safeguard the children and prevent bullying sounds like bloody good value to me, as a governor.

I have to say that I really do not understand the tremendous fuss that revolves around changing for p.e., especially for the little ones. It cannot possibly be a hygiene issue; if it was, they'd send home kits to be washed more than once a term.

I wore a uniform in school in the US private school and we wore our shorts under our skirts, whipped off the shorts and wore our regular school blouses for p.e. and our school shoes were already plimsole types anyway. Getting changed took about 2 minutes in the gym.

Little children generally shouldn't smell that bad, and the amount of physical activity they get in a session of pe once they're finished faffing about with changing is minimal--hy bother changing at all?

Wingdingdong firstly I don't have a TA (not even for 10 minutes) so it's me to supervise 30 boys and girls!

Secondly I'm a parent and never for a moment felt that it was inappropriate for my children to get changed in the classroom and neither did they!

I can't believe this is still happening and still isn't being treated sympathetically by all schools. I fucking hated mixed changing after starting my periods just weeks after my 10th birthday, my parents tried to talk to school about it but were met with complete apathy (were told I needed to get over myself) and I had to change in front of all the boys (stripping down to knickers due to required PE uniform) leaking all over the place on a regular basis. It was fucking awful and completely unneccessary, because our facilities actually did have changing rooms and when one class was coming out another would've been coming in. They could've designated one for each gender with a teacher to supervise in each (because obviously each class had a teacher already, this wouldn't require extra staff) and mixed ages, as opposed to segregating by age and mixing gender. Would've made much more sense.

I hated it, it was miserable, and although it's fine for younger children, if children are getting to the age where they're uncomfortable they need to do something. It isn't fair.

145 posts and not one says that individual circumstances aren't sympathetically taken into account Naoko

But why single those kids out? Make it normal, separate them from year 4 or 5 onward or whatever if that's possible (I appreciate this may be hard in pressed-for-space schools but at least think about how this could be done), then all the kids know that's just what happens with PE from that year onwards. I was different enough, tall, developed, having periods, academic, bullied mercilessly. Being the only one taken to a different room to change would've just been another stick to beat me with. And yeah, my school was just shit, and I'd like to think most schools would've handled it a lot better. But remove the potential for the situation entirely if you can, why wouldn't you?

as people have explained schools just don't have the space, staff or funds to build changing rooms and employ additional staff

You can't do the impossible! I'm sure that all schools would separate them if room. You can't get over the fact that there is no room in most primary schools. For generations they got changed together.

I can't imagine any school would send off a child alone to another room that wouldn't be sympathetic handling of needs would it!

But some people ARE syaing that some schools don't allow children to change separately. I would have no issue with DD changing in a classroom, but she would have had an issue with doing so with boys present.

I work in a school, have done for years. I know all about limited space - my current school has NO space at all for hardly anything. I still cannot see why some schools can't manage to deal with this for their Y5 and Y6s, and even younger if necessary. It should be seen as important, because it is to some, many, developing children. Yes - it might not be an easy solution, but it is one that should be solved imo. Changing rooms are not possible, but something should be done - even if it is borrowng a TA or a CRB cheked volunteer from another class for 10 minutes, a screen, cloakroom or even the toilets if really necessary.

4 out of 11 girls in DD's y6 class had started their periods by Christmas that year - puberty at 10/11y, and even in Y5, is really not unusual. They shouldn't have to change in front of boys if they don't feel comfortable. And imo it is a school's role to accommodate this by whatever means they can.