The school is making my 4 years old to sing gospels, how to get out of this?

[Lokova]

My 4 years old DS is singing:

"My God is good, good, God.
Yes, he is..."

I asked why he sings this and apparently the whole school is singing this in assembly. For Harvest assembly all pupils were made to read a prayer from the screen. This is a non religious, local community school. My elder DS went there and there was no such thing. It was perfectly secular.

I don't wish to offend or be unkind to anyone, but it is offensive and unkind for the school to do this to our family. Now I need to tell him not to sing such things and to explain to a 4 years old that the teachers are wrong to make him say such words etc. He would want to join with his peers. This is very wrong. We should not be in this position.

What is the legal position on collective worship? Can they just take over the assembly and the whole school like this to exclude secular pupils?
Surely religious freedoms don't involve the freedom to force-feed and brainwash secular children into religion.

I have also asked something similar upthread. Silence.

Requirements relating to collective worship.

(1)Subject to section 71, each pupil in attendance at a community, foundation or voluntary school shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship.

Not compulsory, eh?

I said that too, Coconutty.

Some of the other words were:

'Oh he sits and begs, and he stands up tall.
He chases his tail all around the hall.'

I am guessing the God one has alternative lyrics

Or maybe people have got bored and wandered off? Maybe it's that rather than the fact that they are not clever enough to think of a pithy reply?

I have a genuine question. If you are an atheist who loves classical music and listens to a classical radio station, do you object to them playing the Verdi Requiem or something? Given that there isn't much choice if you want to listen to a classical radio station, there being only a couple to my admittedly maybe faulty knowledge.

I do realise that the situations are not really comparable, by the way.

"I am just so baffled that people think it's OK to say "Not a Christian? Well, either pretend to be one or miss out an an important part of school life" Do people really think that's OK? On any level?"

Lol at reporting

I thought I did say upthread that I don't believe they have to pretend to be Christian, they just need to participate in the assembly. Putting hands together and saying the lords prayer is not pretending to be a Christian, it is merely saying the lords prayer.

So what is good for spiritual health then bemybebe? Being very cross about stuff that isn't actually harming them due to ideology? Why shouldn't the state ask for spiritual involvement in a variety of religious practise in the same way that it requires physical education?

Not raising a young hypocrite for starters come to my mind jalapeno.
And what does this mean - "Why shouldn't the state ask for spiritual involvement in a variety of religious practise in the same way that it requires physical education?" Are you actually joking?

Thankfully, you seem to be in a minority with the insistence that this practice is somehow good for us.

"Raising a young hypocrite"? Do you really think that about a 4 year old who sings songs in assembly and puts his hands together and closes his eyes?

Bit harsh.

"Do you really think that about a 4 year old who sings songs in assembly and puts his hands together and closes his eyes? "

Yeap, about right if we talk about a person who does not believe in what s/he declares, but does it to please others around them...

But they're four! Come on.

Hypocrite is usually a term of terrible derision.

"Or maybe people have got bored and wandered off? Maybe it's that rather than the fact that they are not clever enough to think of a pithy reply?"

Well, before you follow them, would you reply? Doesn't have to be pithy! Just has to explain in simple words why it's OK.

I did not say they are already a hypocrite. I said "raising a young hypocrite".

The British Humanist Association are campaign for reform on this issue. See here if you want to support it.

If they are exposed to it at school they at least know what worship is so that they can have a basis for making up their own mind. People seem to have such little faith in children and think that they can just be filled with whatever people choose to put in their minds. If you have a proper debate with a 5 yr old they are often more sensible than many adults!

It seems to me that parents make up their minds and expect their DC to automatically follow-life doesn't work like that. DCs of Christians become atheists or Muslims or whatever and DCs of atheists become Christians, Muslims whatever. You bring up your DCs a certain way but they do have free choice-they are not you. What I fail to see is why it matters if they have a different belief system.

Faith or lack of it is a very personal thing-I don't see why it matters to others. My mother has her belief system and I have mine-why would it matter if they were different?

Would you be happy if the teacher told your child that there was no God? Genuine question. The head stands up in Assembly and says "Listen, children. God does not exist. This life is all there is- so live it to the full." Everyone happy with that?

Again, nothing against children or adults having "a different belief system". If they believe, they should be able to do so.

Forcing children to participate (see earlier "each pupil in attendance at a community, foundation or voluntary school shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship"...blah, blah, blah) in something they do not want - a majority - is wrong. And don't tell me for the n-th time about "the right to withdraw", most people don't do it not because they agree with worship at schools, but because they do not want to make their children different or miss an important part of the assembly.

I am off this thread as it is going in circles. My consolation is that this practice will die and sooner than we think - I read that already "40% of Church of England 'faith schools' are flouting the law that requires all state funded schools to provide a daily act of collective worship"...

I would expect my DC to question it and use it as a debate at home. I would explain that some people did not believe in God and it was quite a valid choice. When they were older they could make up their own mind. As it happens they decided at about 8yrs that there is no God. I think there probably is. What I utterly fail to understand is why I should be right and why they should follow me and why it matters if we think differently.

It is going around in circles-they are not forced to participate. It at least exposes them to another option. It is their free choice. It is a very personal thing.

exotics, read the law - it is not a "free choice", least of all for the pupil. "shall" is a command... not a suggestion

bye

I meant it was a free choice for the individual as they grow up. People seem to assume these things are set in stone and they will always feel the same. My father was an atheist and then changed his mind aged about 52 when he got confirmed in C of E. It is all a personal choice-not dictated by parents or schools. I don't see the harm in exposing the DC to all views -the one sure thing is they will decide for themselves in the end.

At my school (a CofE school, so no question about the daily act of worship) this Christmas we sang about Diwali and Hannukah as well as Christmas. The children regularly sing Shalom my friends and other Hebrew songs. Is this indoctrinating them in the Hindu and Jewish religion? Or are they just singing nice songs? We have atheist families who send their children to the school because it is the local primary, and would prefer it if the school was a community school not a church school. Their children come into assembly but stand quietly during prayers without joining in. They do not come to church services. No big deal.