daughter accused of sexual act..help!!

[cezzer1]

My daughter, 7, made an inappropriate comment to an older boy aged 9 in the playground in front of her piers. She said "I'm going to bite your willy". She pretended to chase him and inadvertently licked him on the knee. The boy then kept asking her for a week or so to be his girlfriend and kept blowing her kisses, which led to her ignoring him on the playground. 6 weeks later the boys mother wrote in to his teacher saying her son was traumatised by the comments and implied my daughter had licked her son on the genitalia area of his trousers. The school never called me in and simply told me in a brief 8 minute meeting after school, due to the teacher having prior commitments and needing to rush off. I was left in tears. they had dealt with it and my daughter had had to apologise to the boy in front of classmates, although out of earshot and had also had to write him a letter. My daughter was only asked if she made the comment, which she admitted truthfully and if she licked him on the trousers, which she also admitted truthfully. However as an adult I understand the implied behaviour behind this and when it was explained to her people thought she had intentionally tried to lick his genitalia area, she went to pieces and severely broke down absolutely incredulous at the accusation. At 7 she has no concept of the act she is accused of and in her version it was a comment made to look big in front of her friends at a time when her friendship group was experiencing problems, a situation the school have had to monitor and are aware, and the act was a playful chase and the boys genitalia was not touched neither was it intended to be. I was never called to help my child through a serious accusation before she was found guilty of it and I have had to wait four long days before I can speak to anyone about it. This lad has an obvious crush on my daughter having told all his friends "she's his" and this has not been reciprocated, she's only 7, and it took 6 weeks for the lad to come forward, in the meantime he was still pursuing my daughter and obviously not traumatised but possibly annoyed at my daughter's reluctance to return his affections. What are my rights here. She's a gifted and talented register student who has twice been bullied at the school and suffers from an underlying confidence problem, although gregarious to the outsider. I believe this to be the reason for her silly comments of which I do Not condone, but the act she is said to have done I fully dispute both the accusation and the way it was handled and the lack of concern for my daughters well being in all of this. In addition if this becomes public throughout the school, her reputation will be blighted.

The thing is, the word you quote is in general use as a swear word, divorced from its precise meaning.

If it was used on its own, in the "commonly used" swearing form, that would not be a CP issue - tbh nor would it be in a younger child, it would simply be copying language that is heard around them every day. Not nice language for a child to use, but not a CP issue.

Used as a verb in a fuller sentence, implying the actual act especially with the speaker speaking as the clearly-intended perpetrator, would be a CP issue in an under-age child.

The whole point is that there is no such thing as a 'validated' CP issue. There are individual instances which if 'filed' by all concerned mean nothing and come to nothing. There are individual instances that passed to the CPLO mean nothing and come to nothing. But there are also individual instances that combine to indicate a pattern - and it is not my place to decide which category a given event fits into.

The world has gone mad. When I was seven the playground was full of kids talking about willies and making willy jokes. How is this any different?

Crystal, it almost certainly isn't. But the law - for that is what it is - is concerned with the gap between 'almost certainly and 'certainly' and so the responsibility is placed on all teachers to report.

Mind theGapp, I was only wondering because I was surprised by your mention of 'filing' something - it didn't sound like recent language from CP training.

I think it's pretty normal and because of the possible sexual reference I'd expect it to be reported on the CP register but I would not expect any action to be taken regarding CP unless there were other issues recorded already. Nor do I think writing a letter to the child is a good idea (verbal apology is probably fine) because it happened weeks ago and has little current context.

But then I'd think it odd if most children didn't have at least one entry on the CP register because normal playground behaviour will throw up issues like this from time to time.

No we are not advocating that it is masking child abuse, but teachers have a duty of care to pass this incidents onto their Child Protection Officer. Judgement is simply not a part of it, it is not a teacher's job to judge or monitor and it is very irresponsible to think it is.

I hope the OP is horrified. Perhaps she did not think about how it might look from the outside. But certainly from my point of view I have offered her advice that will get her and her daughter out of the situation as swiftly as possible.

Chances are it was just a very stupid thing her daughter said/did and totally innocent, but it should be dealt with not excused.

But some people think that saying 'willie' for a 7 year old is just as normal as saying 'fuck' for a 14 year old.

Why should one be a CP issue and one not? Why do we take knee-jerk reactions to one but a more measured approach to the other?

Talking willies and differences between boys and girls has no precocious knowledge. this is very different because it may carry precocious knowledge.

It should be reported. Not a teacher's responsibility to judge.

So I have to use 'CP training language' now?

I refuse to be part of a police or nanny state.

Look I am not seeing CP in what the OP has posted I am merely trying to explain why schools have to take what we might consider "messing around" seriously. The OP's daughter was asked to apologise is that too harsh a measure?

Mtg, haven't always agreed with you on here. But, having got sidetracked, do still feel better knowing common sense prevails and have to agree with your approach

Actually I think it's quite obvious why one is a child protection issue and the other isn't

I think its on the spectrum of normal, I'm just confused as to why the OP thinks her dd shouldn't have to apologise for it. I understand that the girl is upset about it but too bad, she did something she shouldn't have done and she was caught. The schools approach sounds cackhanded but not enough to get worked up about. If a girl had said she was going to bite my ds's willy off, then got close to his willy with her mouth and he was bothered by it I would expect the girl to apologise even if she didn't mean it sexually (my ds wouldn't have taken it sexually but he wouldn't have liked it) and even if she was just trying to humiliate the boy in order to look good in front of her friends .

It is the context in which the word is used - as I explained with reference to the other word you used. To use the word willie in most contexts is absolutely normal for a 7 year old - after all, for 50% of them or so, what other word do they use to describe a part of their anatomy? It is the use in the phrase 'I'm going to bite your willie', followed by an intended or inintended attempt to do so that moves this on to a (slightly) higher level.

In the absence of any other worrying behaviour I would not agree that 'I am going to bite your willy' suggests anything worthy of CP concerns.

It is an age appropriate 'silly' comment. It is the sort of thing you are likely to hear from many children and would warrant a 'dont be rude' response.

If she said 'I am going to suck you off' that would be a very different matter because that would be a sure sign that she had hear or witnessed some sort of sexual activity.

My two boys have just been telling each other they have 'big fat boobies'. Whilst I wouldnt encourage this sort of talk it certainly wouldnt have me calling Childline.

MindtheGappp if you work with children it isn't your decision and wouldn't you rather have one seemingly innocent event recorded as one child harmed?

What is a CPLO?
And why are children's silly games, which have gone on this way since time immemorial, suddenly being interpreted as something more sinister than that, i.e. 'child abuse.'?

This smacks of over-reaction and hysteria to me. For heavens' sake; they are children - and children by default do childish and foolish things.
The sort of play described by the OP was commonplace in the playgrounds of my childhood and no-one batted an eyelid. It was just a part of the rough and tumble of everyday school life and we thought nothing of it - and neither did our teachers or parents.

Threatening to bite anyone is not appropriate, age or otherwise. Threatening to bite someone willy needs to be reported, I am amazed and disgusted there is any doubt.

Didn't you read the news report which a poster linked to earlier in the thread? Not reporting child protection issues is a serious disciplinary matter.

You may be leaving yourself vulnerable - but worse, children may be left vulnerable because of your arrrogance.

It isn't your decision to make.

Thank you, Mum.

The main point that I have been trying to get across latterly is that there is a tipping point of what a teacher reports and what they don't. There is a point for everything and that point will be too sensitive for some (where the CPLO is inundated with spurious incidents) and too late for others (where a child is at very real risk). Most of us make judgments, and I refuse to be told that I am not able to make a judgment. I am a grown woman, a professional - I am not some kind of non-sentient machine.

I would personally raise some eyebrows at a 7-year old who talks about biting willies (but then I am a prude). My approach would be to come alongside that child to know them better. This approach should quickly reveal any niggling suspicions and would be more effective than a log in a CPLO register where there is no relationship built with the student and the key adult (the teacher) could wash their hands of the situation knowing that the 'experts' were on the case.

Can someone who knows tell me the significance of reporting an incident on a CP register?does that mean it will be on this child's school record and beyond for ever and a day? If so is is the incident described in detail so a judgement can be made as to the seriousness of it?

Nobody is interpreting it as child abuse. But a teacher has a duty to report it.

MTG, I would do both... reporting does not mean 'washing my hands of the situation' in any way.

Agreed - both is appropriate.

Chances are nothing will happen, however if a child protection officer gets a serious of "small incidents" they may report it to social services as a child protection matter.

Mindthegapp - and suppose you got it wrong and actually several teachers had had seen things that should have been reported but, because they felt able to make a judgement they hadn't. You don't know because they haven't reported it, they don't know because you haven't reported it and the child slips through the net. That's exactly why we have Child Protection Officers, one point of contact within the school.

It is not your decision to make.

I'm late to this, but mrz is correct about the procedure for reporting and the fact that a young child can be an abuser, but is invariably also a victim of abuse.

'Whether you have witnessed it or not surely you have had CP training and know the decision isn't yours'

is also correct, and the reason why a CPO should always be an experienced and trained individual rather than the alternative. Spotting if there is a pattern, keeping meticulous records and keeping the needs of the child at the forefront of your mind. That's tricky and needs more than 'trust your gut' to do effectively.

'Mrz I'd stop spending your nights crying and concentrate on doing a proper job.'

As well as being a thoroughly bitchy comment ISLL, mrz is doing her job.
It's no good weeping and snivelling next to an abused child as you realise what they have already experienced in their short lives, you do your job and fight for that child with everything at your disposal and everything you have in you.
You keep your gameface on and stay calm and dispassionate.
Then at night you go home and scream about the unfairness and evil, smash a few mugs and cry in your pillow.
Then next morning you get the fuck out of bed, put on your face and go back to the fight. How is that not doing your job?

Oh, and the Y10 who says 'fuck?' Not a CP issue. Swearing.
The Y10 who gets inside someone's personal space and says
'I want to fuck you'
Someone to watch out for, for the sake of all involved.