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Primary education

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daughter accused of sexual act..help!!

285 replies

cezzer1 · 13/11/2011 15:02

My daughter, 7, made an inappropriate comment to an older boy aged 9 in the playground in front of her piers. She said "I'm going to bite your willy". She pretended to chase him and inadvertently licked him on the knee. The boy then kept asking her for a week or so to be his girlfriend and kept blowing her kisses, which led to her ignoring him on the playground. 6 weeks later the boys mother wrote in to his teacher saying her son was traumatised by the comments and implied my daughter had licked her son on the genitalia area of his trousers. The school never called me in and simply told me in a brief 8 minute meeting after school, due to the teacher having prior commitments and needing to rush off. I was left in tears. they had dealt with it and my daughter had had to apologise to the boy in front of classmates, although out of earshot and had also had to write him a letter. My daughter was only asked if she made the comment, which she admitted truthfully and if she licked him on the trousers, which she also admitted truthfully. However as an adult I understand the implied behaviour behind this and when it was explained to her people thought she had intentionally tried to lick his genitalia area, she went to pieces and severely broke down absolutely incredulous at the accusation. At 7 she has no concept of the act she is accused of and in her version it was a comment made to look big in front of her friends at a time when her friendship group was experiencing problems, a situation the school have had to monitor and are aware, and the act was a playful chase and the boys genitalia was not touched neither was it intended to be. I was never called to help my child through a serious accusation before she was found guilty of it and I have had to wait four long days before I can speak to anyone about it. This lad has an obvious crush on my daughter having told all his friends "she's his" and this has not been reciprocated, she's only 7, and it took 6 weeks for the lad to come forward, in the meantime he was still pursuing my daughter and obviously not traumatised but possibly annoyed at my daughter's reluctance to return his affections. What are my rights here. She's a gifted and talented register student who has twice been bullied at the school and suffers from an underlying confidence problem, although gregarious to the outsider. I believe this to be the reason for her silly comments of which I do Not condone, but the act she is said to have done I fully dispute both the accusation and the way it was handled and the lack of concern for my daughters well being in all of this. In addition if this becomes public throughout the school, her reputation will be blighted.

OP posts:
mrz · 13/11/2011 16:13

As a CPLO I would be very concerned if staff were not sharing that knowledge and just "filing it"

MindtheGappp · 13/11/2011 16:15

There is a continuum though - some things you share, some things you decide not to. There is no clear cut line.

I have not witnessed this kind of behaviour before (despte what KM says as to its prevalence). Perhaps if I did, I would have a stronger point of view. At minimum, I would take a personal note. Perhaps I would report it straightaway - it depends on more factors. Life is not black and white.

cory · 13/11/2011 16:16

One thing you need to do is to explain to your dd that if she says "I am going to bite your willy" it is not a totally unreasonable assumption by other people that she is trying to get her mouth near that person's genitals.
The danger of saying something silly is that people may believe you.

Voidka · 13/11/2011 16:16

They start younger and younger nowadays dont they Confused

MindtheGappp · 13/11/2011 16:20

I don't know if that is true, Voidka.

It doesn't have to be - my children are pretty innocent right into senior school.

If a child is aware of sexual behaviour at age 7, I would wonder how she was being exposed to it. Is she watching inappropriate TV shows (which would have to be porn, given that most sexual innuendo after the watershed is fairly straight up and not into cunni lungus (sp)). My own kids watch mindless Disney type shoes, even into early teens, so I know that they have no knowledge of non-procreative sexual activity (and long may it continue).

Worst case scenario is that the child has more direct experience - not TV, not older siblings/cousins/neighbours.

mrz · 13/11/2011 16:20

Whether you have witnessed it or not surely you have had CP training and know the decision isn't yours

Mum1369 · 13/11/2011 16:21

Mtg response sounds much more reasonable. The teachers and the cplo would surely be drowning in (even more) paperwork if they followed that rule to it's letter. Common sense has to prevail otherwise you would spend your time investigating all the innocent incidents and the real ones would get delayed sorting the wheat from the chaf (sp)

mrz · 13/11/2011 16:22

The youngest "abuser" I encountered was as a student in nursery during my teacher training 20+ years ago ... he was three!

TravellerForEver · 13/11/2011 16:23

Well, if my dd had been in that situation and a boy had licked her knee I would have brushed any issue away tbh.
These are children not teenagers.

I would have expalined to my dd that this is not acceptable though if she had been unconfortable about it, which she might not have had the child been 2 years younger than her and only 7yo.

Ond the others side, I would have gone ballistic if my ds had ever said that that a girl 'is his'.

OP, tomorrow you will be able to put your side of the story to the school and perhaps try and rebalance things out. You might be able to clarify things. However I would not be very hopeful that this wouls achieve a lot for your dd as such. You can't undo what has been done (the apology etc...) and the school is unlikely to go and apologize to your dd either.

KatieMiddIeton · 13/11/2011 16:23

I thought the point of the CP register was that no one had to make the judgement themselves, they just reported it and then if there was a pattern it could be seen? If everyone individually decides what is and isn't important doesn't that make having a register redundant? Putting something in the register doesn't automatically mean an investigation does it?? Confused

MindtheGappp · 13/11/2011 16:24

Everyone has some level of decision making. There is a tipping point. If I had a Year 10 child whom I overheard to say 'fuck', I wouldn't report this to the CPLO, despite the fact that they are describing a potentially violent sexual act.

We could just hand everything over to the CPLO otherwise and not have any judgment whatsoever.

I think the majority of mumsnetters would be horrified to think that everything a child says or does should be written down in some file. We are not, at this time, living in police state.

cory · 13/11/2011 16:24

for heaven's sake, you don't have to be aware of cunnilingus to lick another child in a playfight! you could just as easily be playing at dogs, or just doing it because you tried it once and noticed it winds people up

I'd still tell them to stop it

TravellerForEver · 13/11/2011 16:25

mrz are you joking?? Would you really label a 3yo an abuser?!?

TravellerForEver · 13/11/2011 16:25

Fully agree with cory

breadandbutterfly · 13/11/2011 16:26

I remember something v similar happening in my dd's class when she was about the same age. A pupil - think it was a girl but have forgotten any details as a few years ago now - made some silly willy reference too - may have been licking or sucking?? - sorry to not be able to remember more. I think it was just talking rather than action though. I do remember a big kerfuffle and the mum being upset then, too, but I think it all blew over. The dd there (IIRC) is a lovely girl, but, yes, a tendency to be rather more sexually 'forward' than most girls her age. That said, don't panic too much about long term implications - this is about 4 years ago amd I've already forgotten most of it, even though the mum I think it was is a friend of mine.

I agree you should have been informed first, given your dd is v young, and the school thought it sufficiently serious to punish several weeks after it had taken place. But don't worry about it affecting your dd's 'reputation' - I'm sure it's apparent to everyone (except possibly the boy's parents, but frankly it doesn't sound like they're going to be close friends anyway) that it was an innocent if embarrassing mistake, and will matter to no-one else as much as it does to you and your dd. Do tell the teacher your dd's side of the story, as your dd deserves the chance to put that across, do explain you'd like to be notified in future, esp as your dd has confidence issues anyway, but bear in mind the teacher is probably dreading this meeting as much as you are (hence dashing off?) - embarrassing for them too, I should think. Most of all, try to minimise the impact on your dd - she obviously has now learnt her behaviour was inappropriate and not to do it again, so do your best to explain she's been punished and it is now in the past and dealt with, and she should get on with enjoying school life.

istilllovelassie · 13/11/2011 16:26

mrz - jeez so is this what CPLO's worry about ? Is the type of thing that tax payers money is spent on ? getting concerned over playground high games gone wrong. How did we survive for years without CPLOs eh ?
mindthegap of course the girl hasnt watched porn - every little girl knows what a willy is - she just took a game too far egged on by her friends - she is 7 and he is 9 - why didnt he just say Go Away ????
OP go into school and talk to them tomorrow - and for now turn off your computer and ignore the hsyterical loons.

KatieMiddIeton · 13/11/2011 16:27

I not sure. I'm not a big fan of police state society but I think six separate very minor incidents of inappropriate behaviour is significant enough to warrant a further look but if it's not recorded that can't be seen.

I'd rather have a few very minor things recorded on a register and no action taken after review than have 6 indicators of abuse missed because on their own they are very minor and trivial.

mrz · 13/11/2011 16:27

So Mum1369 I make the decision to say nothing about an incident because the child is only 7 and I like the parents and they are a lovely family etc etc therefore I don't know that the CPLO and SS have a considerable file of similar incidents and as a result something happens to a child ...
sorry we've strayed from the OPs situation but I hope you can see why there are rules.

LIZS · 13/11/2011 16:27

Ask for a meeting withe the school and stop going over it again and agina with her - you either believe her or you don't by now. There was a complaint , the school have a duty to record and follow it up. An apology does n't seem out of proportion but both school and you need to draw a line under it now.

mrz · 13/11/2011 16:29

Yes istilllovelassie it's why I lie awake at night crying
community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/530357.aspx?PageIndex=1

KatieMiddIeton · 13/11/2011 16:30

I actually find the idea that small children talking about willies or licking is an indicator watching porn a bit... odd to say the least.

Children like toilet humour. They find bodily functions funny and disgusting and there is absolutely nothing sexual about it at all.

MindtheGappp · 13/11/2011 16:32

I guess it was that lecture I went to on my PGCE course, KM. I had no idea before and I was very, very shocked that that kind of thing went on.

Precocious behaviour is something to keep a weather eye on, and perhaps mention to the CPLO.

Mum1369 · 13/11/2011 16:35

Admittedly I don't come at this with any experience of cplo (thank goodness). - I do see your point though, I was assuming that when you said an incident was 'reported' - it was something that was investigated. If it is in fact, just 'logged', then I guess that does make sense in the wider scheme of things. Yes, I would hate for an abused child to fall through the net. Just seemed a bit OTT in the context of this thread

cory · 13/11/2011 16:37

So MindtheGapp if a 4yo makes jokes about eating poo is that an indicator that they have been reading those bizarre coprophagia sites on the internet?

or just ...erhmmm...just an indication that they have an imagination of their own and a fairly canny sense of what other people find annoying?

as far as I can remember small children were licking each other to be annoying before the invention of the internet or the showing of porn films on television so that scuppers your theory

and they were making annoying willy remarks too

and being pulled up about it by their elders

TravellerForEver · 13/11/2011 16:37

Yep, the latest joke with my dcs (similar age) is to go about some people being 'sexy' and that is related to the size of the boobs (even with men apparently Hmm).

They are both laughing about it, lots of humour and have no idea at all of what being sexy means.

A child talking about a willy and bitting it isn't for me a sign that there is anything worrying happening. My own dcs ahve probably done similar thing very bad toilet humour