Ds sits next to kid who stinks of pee ; should I mention to the teacher?

[DrNortherner]

Ds is in Year 5. In Maths and Science he sits next to this boy who clearly has toilet issues. Every day ds complains he smells of stale wee and it puts him off.

Parents eve is soon and dh says we should complain. I reckon the teacher will already know this kid stinks of wee so is it worth mentioning?

FWIW, most days I see this boy he comes out of school with a wet patch on his trousers

Dh is of the 'Hey, this boy stinks and it's not fair my ds has to sit next to him every day' stance where as I am a little more diplomatic...

Any advice on how to tackle?

er, well, i use inco stuff to prevent leaking and associated hygiene issues. not because of the smell, tbh. saves a lot of mopping and cleaning and disinfecting...

Sorry but I cant believe that no one would know another child was wearing pullups or would not question why they were changing separately for PE. My son ended up being assessed by ed psych before impaction was diagnosed and found to be very bright (IQ in top 1 percent). He would never have gone to school in pullups, he was very angry about the whole situation as we had no diagnosis and we were being told it was not medical ie being suggested it was behavioural. Not sure if his inelligence made him more angry and frustrated by the situation or if everyone would be the same but it was horrendous for him.

Amazed by your attitude spider if you have been through this same problem. I was not letting him wet himself and be smelly. I fought for several years for help and diagnosis and was having a total breakdown through total lack of help and support and the suggestion that it was behavioural. If we had had a diagnosis and care plan I am sure he would have been persuaded to wear pull ups as he would have known it was not his fault but we were being told by CAMHS it could be lifelong as behavioural and all suggestions were it would be made worse by pullups as would never bother to learn to use toilet.

Once we had a diagnosis I made sure the other parents knew about it and about our horrendous misdiagnosis and that it was a medical condition. With a diagnosis it is easy to deal with but I didnt feel able to tell all the other parents when there was a problem that professionals thought was behavioual and may never be sorted.

Slave - please tell me how I could have managed the situation properly to prevent my son smelling if he leaked wee 3 or 4 times an hour and always had a trace of poo. I spent several years of my life seeking professional help or researching this virtually full time as I dont work and it had taken over our lives. I obviously never had any helpful advice to manage the situation properly.

Well I used the services of all our incontinence nurses, paediatricians at enuresis clinic etc and this was the help we got. I am in process of complaining about the lack of help we received so if anyone has any helpful suggestions of what products/services we should have received to help manage the situation I will add this to my complaint to ensure everyone else receives appropriate help in the future. I just dont want anyone else to suffer as we did. Thanks

I would have thought that some kind of incontinence product would have helped with the smell, but you say that your son would refuse to use them anyway.

yy, same here. ds1 well above average cognitively (always honour roll, top stude etc), which is why counsellors have been baffled. he's clever enough to understand the entire digestive system and how it works (and why witholding is a really bad idea), and fully understands the (social and otherwise) consequences of wetting and soiling in public. there is no way on this earth that at nearly ten he'd trot off to school in a pull-up.

in fact, he's clever enough to sidetrack the counsellors completely. after a particularly wearing school trip to the zoo (2.5 hours in each direction) and soiling and wetting on the bus, with the etnire busload of children shouting 'someone's shit themself, someone stinks!' he mananged an entire hour with the counsellor telling her all about the animals and the habitat project they were doing, and what a great time he'd had. it was only when i spoke to her a week later and mentioned that he had come home completely wet and soiled, that she knew anything about it. he didn't mention the shouting on the bus either - his sister was on the same school trip and said it was awful. he completely blanks it. total dissociation.

slave - I dont say my son would refuse to do anything now we have diagnosis but said that without diagnosis when he was being blamed by professionals he was not cooperative and was naturally very angry. You may be right there may be products that would help but I was unable to find out about anything helpful and nothing was available to us, maybe because it was deemed not medical. I was desperate and asked everyone for help including in writing and complaining to head of PCT etc I used to speak to ERIC frequently as I was cracking up and they were so supportive and happy to help but didnt suggest anything.

Anyone who actually has any specifics of help we could have been offered would be great as would add weight to my complaint.

madwoman - I can so relate to this. How do you cope as I cant imagine not having diagnosis or treatment by this age?

Pull ups are discrete but not invisible and usually easily spotted and they certainly don't prevent smells.

we just chug on with it, no other real option. he's seeing the paed every month now, whereas the last one discharged him and just said he'd grow out of it. i found ERIC worse than useless tbh. sympathy is all very well, but what you need is practical help and suggestions for solutions.

i suspect he'll back for more testing soon, and poss a psych eval. i'm hopeful about the new paed, she's got 'proactive' written all over her. there's no easy fix to this stuff though, is there. even with a good dx it can take 6 months before nerve endings repair and sensation returns.

but yy, anyone with ideas, please share.

oh, and i buy new washing machines periodically.
my very new and shiny model has a steam clean and a sanitise function. and is big enough to wash duvets daily.

One solution we tried for my son who seemed to have no clue when to have a wee and spent most of pre-school/reception/yr1 soggy was a watch with a vibrating alarm that was set to go off roughly every two hours. We implied that as he didn't seem to know when to go for a wee the watch did! And as the watch just vibrated against his wrist it was very discreet.

He still has problems but as he has got older it seems to happen less and less, I really wish we had a clue why this ever became an issue in the first place. The pead said it was not physical, but we are still at a loss why an apparently intelligent child would rather wet their pants than admit they need a wee.

DrNo I always think you have to undertake issues such as this as you would if it was your own child who had the "problem" and consider how you would wish him to be treated by others. With huge sensitivity. I would definitely have a quiet word with the teacher BUT are you friendly enough with the Mum of the child? Me, I am the type who would brazenly gently broach the subject with her and see if she is aware how bad it has become for her DS in school as her DS may be underplaying it.

MADWOMAN - Like you i am certain their are dietary links. My son eats very little but impaction makes you feel full and I guess he has survived for so long eating so little that he is just used to it. My son showed all signs of coeliac but tested negative but the blood test is not 100 percent accurate and like you i am not convinced.

I would try cutting out milk or wheat but there would be almost nothing left in his diet so couldnt do it without dietician and as situation has improved fantastically with movicol I am just leaving it for now. He just seems to have no interest in food rarely even asking for a snack and often not touching a meal. Maybe due to an association with faecal incontinence immediately after eating which has created a reluctance to eat.

My son has total focus on his activity and wont leave a task ie has to finish a book once started which made professionals think he was deliberately not going to the toilet, not helped by his saying it was a waste of time. The ed psych report was quite helpful by identifying his IQ. When I spoke to NAGC they explained some of characteristics of highly gifted children can be this total focus and also heightened emotions to things and several other things that explained some of his characteristics.

Professionals felt he was not reacting appropriately to the toileting accidents and like your son he was using his extremely advanced verbal skills to infleunce them and obviously confusing them. My son had heavy night wetting, always leaking through nappy but paed still didnt realize this was a symptom of the impaction as were the low iron levels.

I have to say your sons problem sounds like impaction and food intolerance or allergy to me ie a totally medical condition and that the other issues such as inattention and anxiety are symptoms of the problem rather than the cause. Have you tried private, my friend who had private treatment for her daughters impaction had a brilliant service.

you can buy those from malem, exorbitclamp. you can set them for up for 12 times in a 24 hour period. they are really very good if a child will then respond.

Hi Fanny no, I am not friendly enough with the Mum to chat with her. I say Hi and that's about it, and her to me. Would not be comfortable raising this with her. In fact, in the reception years I tried to initiate conversation with her but she is very shy and nervous and practically runs away from conversation.

oo, sorry, x-post. yy re other issues, it's all a bit chicken and egg. as we've just got a new paed i think we're going to stay where we are for now, but will have to look at private options if she doesn't seem to be making headway.

interesting about the heavy wetting at night being symptomatic of impaction - i had always associated wetting with that level of constipation etc (it just made sense in my head) but haven't heard anyone else say that.

who did you use in the end? pm if nec...

exorbit - our paed gave my son vibrating watch too and assured it was not physical!! Do not be so sure the paed was right, for anyone in this situation it is worth a second opinion to try to do the best for your child.

My son loved the idea of the watch and wore it happily and it was discreet at his age, totally ineffective though for someone with a medical condition that meant their bladder could leak 3 times in an hour without them having warning.

The watch did help my son, as there was no leaking just a really odd refusal, that we still have not got to the bottom of. It did just help just to make sure he was trying regularly so accidents were smaller if you know what I mean.

Another thing which I am sure he was sensitive to was aspartame, we avoid that and again it helps. It was not a complete solution but again things were a little bit better. Sainsbury's by the way have no aspartame in any of their own brand products - so we always buy their squashes etc.

madwoman - I have spent many an hour reading the NICE guidelines to constipation in children CG99 to support my misdiagnosis case. All the symptoms are there. Several hundred pages. If the paeds had read it they would be able to make correct diagnosis.

Also the NHS map of medicine website gives a flow chart for each stage the paed should follow with symptoms/examinations etc. Also the NHS CKS website is useful.

Statistics given state 95 percent of children with soiling will be due to impaction so is a good starting point to rule out!

The NICE guidlines to night wetting state constipation shoud be considered as a cause. Somone did explain why heavy night wetting was a symptom cant remember exactly - think it was release at night when relaxed?

Do you mean which paed diagnosed it?

yes, just curious whether you did go private etc and look for a specialist.

thanks for NICE link btw - can't believe i didn't think of that, have already got tons of NICE guidelines lying around for dd2 (also a medical negligence case, but birth injury. only about three or four years into that one...)

gah.

Constipation/Mr Z- My DD was only in reception and the beginning of Y1 when she wore them.I do think they prevent smells from pee but obviously not poo.i have never smelled a 'stale wee' nappy only soiled ones.But that isn't the point.If she had an accident it was contained it didn't wet her clothes she had a little card in her pocket with a picture of a princess on that she showed to amember of staff and they would know she had to leave to sort herself out.she had a bag with wipes and pullups in and they passed her a plastic bag to put the 'spent' one in
i don't like your insinuation that a bright child wouldn't wear pullups.It doesn't sound a very bright child to me that would prefer the alternative ie to sit around stinking and wet all day!!
We never had any help froom any medical professionals in diagnosing faecal impaction either.It was only a post on another parenting website that alerted me to this condition, and then, having looked it up on the internet went to the Gp and got a referrral to a paed.I do agree that awareness of this distressing condition should be raised.

oh, spiderpig. i already said earlier that's the conundrum. why an especially bright child would sit around wet and stinking... none of it makes any sense.

anyway, glad dd's issue got resolved. it is much easier if the child is compliant - then you can use princess cards, or yellow pencils on the desk, or whatever, to get permission to leave the room and sort out. if a child is refusing to toilet, then no amount of princess cards is going to get them to leave the room and actually use the loo. whether they know they need to wee, or to change their wet/ soiled pull-up.

Shame that DrNo as it sounds to me like her DS could do with a lot of support (even maybe she does). Definitely have a chat with teacher then and hope for both your DS and this poor little boy's sake it gets sorted very soon.

spider - certainly didnt mean to insinuate that another child would wear pullups because less bright. my son was having HUGE anger issues at the frustration of having no control of bladder/bowel. I know another girl with same condition and she reacted totally differently and went quiet and depressed and wouldnt attend school until resolved and i know another who does wear pullups. They all react differently and I agree with you I couldnt understand how he could sit wet and soiled and not tell the teacher when I knew he was not stupid. Hence why I was at my wits end.

Just ask to move if your cant stand it .....is it a great to be as the earth revolves around you in your perfect world?
Am sure the teacher thinks you are fabulous parents for instilling such compassion and tolerance in your child.