Concerned about son's year 2 teacher and grouping

[TheBFactor]

Hello everyone
I am new here.
I have a wonderful, witty, energetic, extremely bright boy who is a summer baby, hence one of the youngest in a class of 30. We have been told since Reception that he is "immature" and behind the rest since the day he started Reception. The class teacher was very positive at the beginning of this year and seemed to really "get" my son finally, but more recently they seem to have turned negative again. He does not have Special Needs, but has been persistently grouped (I think for both Literacy and Maths) with a SEN boy and 2 overseas children whose English ability is weak. I am told my son is doing very well in Literacy (although they say he does not appear to focus on his writing - according to the teacher it is becacuse he can't be bothered !).

The class teacher says his attitude makes him extremely "disadvantged" and predicted taht he will be "disadvantage" next year also. She then proceeded to name various children in the class and make direct comparisons with other children, telling me very personal and private issues about other children and their abilities.

I am an educator (higher education level) myself - it is against the confidentiality rules for a teacher to talk about other students in such detail and make direct comparisons. My son ought to be compared to an ideal "age group" not to others in the class. I have been keeping an eye on him this year as I do not wish to destroy his confidence. He is naturally an extrovert, confident little boy, but he has said on numerous occassions that he feels he is bottom of the class and that the other children think so too - a few have called him babyish and I wonder how much of that come's from the teacher's attitude towards him.

Luckily, because of his graet personality, he has close friendships with several other boys and seems to be happy at school, but I am really concerned as the school are very good at having one way dialogues with me, i.e. they talk, but never listen to anything I have to say about him. They seem to think they know more about him than I do and that their reasons for placing him in whatever group is absolutely right. The negative labelling of boys is quiet common at schools I'm afraid. The quiet, shy girls seem to get away with things and the boys don't. I'm trying to get my son out of the labelling scenario.

A boy and a girl have so far been pulled out of the same class. When I spoke to their parents they had similar concerns, the other boy was also one of the youngest. The girl's mother (the girl had a learning disability) said to me in private that her daughter's emotional well-being wasn't being addressed in this class. This rings alarm bells for me.

It's meant to be an Ofsted Grade 1 school, yet I hear things from others that are similar to my views, that they are more concerned about ticking Ofsted boxes than they are about the needs of individual children.

So what now? Do I pull him out and take him to another school which is less Ofsted glorified, or do I write to the Head (usually it's chats that are not written down so I want it written down) and ask for a written reply? Should I ask them to switch my son around as I see no justification why such a bright little boy (even they have admitted he is intelligent) is in the weakest group where he is not being stretched ?

The taecher says my son is NOT naughty - he has also never been accused of being aggressive, hitting or swearing (thank goodness as it woudl be untrue any way). For some strange reason (perhaps because the teachers have decided they doesn't like me for asking questions?) I think my son is very much on the teacher's radar so gets noticed more often for whatever he does (he has been sent outside the classroom on quite a few occassions on the most absurd reasons like switching off the light by mistake or carrying on with something when the teacher had asked him to stop and she had not waited for him to explain that he had not heard her!)
I noticed on a recent class trip that my son was told off more often than other boys, even though others were behaving quite badly by most parents/teachers standards my son was extremely well behaved. I see a lot of unfair treatment going on. He is on the teacher's radar while others seem to be below it and get away with things he can't. Please help.

I'm astonished that anyone can say, oh well, the kids themselves are competitive. NO, they are kids !

They have been socialised into thinking that competition is necessary. It's their parents and teachers who make them competitive by setting them up against each other in groups.

Groups and tables of groups which like ds school are NOT in flux, which seem to be fixed and never changing, are not an ideal way to stretch young minds. In fact in post-16 and higher education settings, Govt policy (Equality & Diversity) is to do exactly the opposite, i.e. mix abilities and allow students to help/learn from each other. If we don't do it where I teach we would be in breach of the Ofsted rules (lord help us !!!). So why the double standard ?

It isn't radical to simply abandon ability groupings, it's already happening within good education systems all over the world. Our Govt needs to watch and learn rather than carrying on with a system which essentially hasn't changed since Victorian times when primary school children were first admitted into schools at age 5.

The current system disadvantages the youngest, summer born, 4/5 year olds like my ds who is itelligent but in an environment that has ALREADY given up on him because he is learning at a far slower pace than the oldest who are nearly a year older than him.

When you add parent/teacher "expectations" and Ofsted ratings to all this, it creates a disaster, not a place for learning.

"Ability tables" are usually so teachers can differentiate the tasks and support they provide for the children; so that they can meet the individual child's needs.
The alternative option is to give everyone the same task.
rubbish you can differentiate just as effectively with mixed seating. If I have six children sitting at a table each could have individualised tasks in just the same way as if I had six ability groups.
At the moment in my class we are differentiating 12 different tasks each day in maths very easily.

TheBFactor the government doesn't dictate how schools/teachers organise their seating plan.

Which age group do you teach mrz?
Do you have children with reading ages between less the 4.03 years and 12.06+?
And how do you get round teach child to discuss their learning, check for errors, extend, etc. if each table could have up to 6 differnet tasks? How far are your tasks differentiated and do peers support each other in paired activities if children sitting near each other are working on such a different and personalised task?

I teach Y2 and have children with reading ages One child below 4 years (too low to measure) and a group at 11 years + (cut off point for test used).
Tasks are sometimes differentiated to individual needs, sometime children work in pairs (same or mixed ability) or in groups (same or mixed) or as a class. Seating isn't static so they move for different tasks.

and I sometimes have 12 not 6 different tasks ...oh and I don't have a TA ...27 children.

Ohhh! Snap! Same age, range and lack of TA! Isn't it a challenge when you have a high level EAL and varied SEN & G&T!

I hasten to add my class have friendship tables for the majority of the day and this is fairly mixed ability. Even then children notice things and compare themselves to the child sitting next to them e.g. which reading book they've got, and whether they are writing sentences about the history topic or are sequencing pictures and sentences about the event.

For me, I believe I can best meet the varied needs of my class in literacy and numeracy session by moving them from these places to table groups. These places are not set and, as I said before, are based on the assessment of the previous lesson and the activities I plan for that lesson.

It is really interesting to hear how other teacher work, but the it is far from black and white. Thank goodness, because I don't think there should be a set blueprint of how we should teach; children are so individual and should be taught (and celebrated) as such. More parents talk to be about their child comparing their reading book than table group.

BFactor, I think children are competitive. Bad teaching or ambitious parenting can exacerbate it, but surely it's human nature to watch what others are doing and compare yourself and children are no exception. The trick I'd guess (am not a teacher!) is in making sure that all children thrive and are encouraged. I do like the sound of mrz's classroom.

I've spent a large part of my life teaching in secondary schools and part of it as a parent.

There are poor teachers out there. They tend not to last long though one of the worst I ever saw is now a Headteacher. Poor teachers exist in other countries too.

It is quite difficult for a HT to get rid of a teacher after that teacher has a full qualification. There are quite good reasons for that. All too often poor teachers are promoted as a means of getting rid of them as in the example above. That's galling but true.

It is also surprisingly difficult to make sure an unsuitable student doesn't achieve a teaching qualification. I remember one student who was just awful but the supervising tutor from the University wouldn't fail her because he hadn't supervised her frequently enough and so she would have appealed. She's now writing educational text books - and so is he!

Having said all that, there is a far, far greater number of outstanding teachers but I feel that the OP's son's teacher is not one of them.

I would have doubts about a teacher of a Y2 class, or any class, constantly yelling. I would also have doubts about a school which appears to be over-concerned with Ofsted reports and league tables.

However, I do think parents are often very blinkered about their own child. Some think their child is not being stretched enough when the teacher feels that every stretching technique has failed and some parental support would be useful! Conversely, I recall a delightful, hard-working and able pupil whose father began every parents' evening telling me his son was a little bugger and I should give him a good thump!!

Like the sound of your classroom too AbigailS.

Thank you Smee. I do try hard to the best job possible for all the children in my class. It's when my teacher hat comes off and my mummy hat goes on that I feel a failure
Thank goodness both my two go to a great school with amazing teachers

I have a lot of sympathy for the OP, as may of the experiences her ds has gone through have happened to our ds.

However, in our case, we have an excellent relationship with the school, wheareas in her, it odes seem as if the relationship with the school has iredeemably broken down.

We are fortunate in being in Scoltand, so the issue of "summer born" babies doesn't arise (if you have a child whose birthday is close to the cut-off date - which in Scoltand is March - you have the option of sending them a year later, without the ludicrous "penalty" that happens in most places in England of them missing out on the Reception year).

However, ds was, like the OP's boy, one of thsoe that wasn't developmentally ready to read until he was 6 (in fact, he was 6.5 before he truly "got" it). We had nothing but support from the school.

Ds has also had a teacher (last year) who was like the OP's ds' teacher. She openly acknowledged that she "shouted too much". She noticeably favoured the girls. Dh once heard her screaming at the kids when he was in the staff room talking to another teacher (he helps the school with their web-site). She told the whole class that they were horrible, the worst class she has ever had (BTW: they're actually a very nice class - confirmed by the depute head teacher who is teaching them part-time this year as one of their teachers left for a promoted poast). She asked the class whether she shouted too much and did they like her (just what were 9 year olds going to answer? )

Through having got to know a number of the senior teachers at the school socially, I know that they weren't happy with the way that she taught - and are happy that she's been sent on secondment somewhere else this year (although she may be back next year :()

We had the support of the head teacher when we raised concerns: it doesn't seem like you do. Your child will make new friends. His confidence, on the other hand, could be iredeemably damaged (although only you know his character). If there is another school relatively close by, at which you get a better vibe, I would look into moving him.

I think that children are likely to 'tune out' a teacher who is ranting.

If a pupil is just getting on with work while the teacher screams at some others than he might quite easily fail to hear an instruction to stop work.

I saw a teacher do exactly that with my DCs class. She picked on the meek because they wouldn't answer back!

... sorry, just to be clear, I meant "His confidence, on the other hand, could be iredeemably damaged if he stays in that environment ".... but only the OP knows her son's character.

"I'm astonished that anyone can say, oh well, the kids themselves are competitive. NO, they are kids !

They have been socialised into thinking that competition is necessary. It's their parents and teachers who make them competitive by setting them up against each other in groups."

Not sure about that. At ds' school they did not have mixed ability tables in Reception, but it was his friend who kept telling him that "you can't do what I can do", "you're not as clever as me". I knew his parents, they were lovely people and absolutely not pushy- there is no way he will have got that from them and his mum was shocked when she found out. But quite few 4-5yos are given to boasting ("I can run faster than you, my daddy's bigger than yours, I can open my mouth wider"). It's not something they have to be taught (as demonstrated by some of the things they boast about, not always what adults would encourage).

The only way ds regained some measure of confidence was when they set up mixed ability table so he was moved away from this boy. He wasn't learning when he spent all his time worrying about why he couldn't do what all the other children on his table could- it did him a world of good to see that he wasn't the only one struggling.

It just isn't necessary, particularly at such a young age, when they are learning and changing every day. As mrz says you can differentiate In mixed ability without setting whole ability groups.

It just is not sensible, achievable or practical to set at such a young age, as the teachers just cannot be flexible enough or change around often enough to suit the speed of learning of this age group, however passionate or well meaning they are. It is as simple as that. For those who will shout, "but I do!" for every 1 that manages to achieve this moveable feast there will be many that don't, and that is just not good enough!.

Setting maybe works later when the pace of learning has slowed but at such a young age it invariably holds them back by the slowest denominator of their group and thereby negates any benefit. This is quite apart from the potential pigeonholing issues, that are not deliberate but are human nature and do prevail in a lot of cases, not all, sure, but too many to make it good practice for those that are later developers.

ohmydear - agree with you. Do many primary schools follow your approach or set by ability when the children are so little?

My dd's school has mixed ability seating. I finally asked the teacher after worrying about it for a while. It just doesn't seem right to group from day one and I was worried because I felt dd was on the cusp of being ready to read and write but on day one at school she couldn't write her name etc etc. I applaud mrz and others who manage such amazing differentiation without actual groups. Maybe she's at dd's school....

too many set by ability, and although I don't disagree with this in later years, I think it is plain wrong to set by ability in reception.

I have seen excellent schools which have many varying "abilities" in say reading in reception, but they have taught in mixed abilities and the results have been astounding. the younger ones and the late developers have been allowed to develop whilst not falling behind and the more advanced have been fulfilled in maturing in other areas such as numeracy comprehension, writing etc without immense pressure in one area that then defines them.