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Primary education

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Concerned about son's year 2 teacher and grouping

218 replies

TheBFactor · 12/02/2011 21:03

Hello everyone
I am new here.
I have a wonderful, witty, energetic, extremely bright boy who is a summer baby, hence one of the youngest in a class of 30. We have been told since Reception that he is "immature" and behind the rest since the day he started Reception. The class teacher was very positive at the beginning of this year and seemed to really "get" my son finally, but more recently they seem to have turned negative again. He does not have Special Needs, but has been persistently grouped (I think for both Literacy and Maths) with a SEN boy and 2 overseas children whose English ability is weak. I am told my son is doing very well in Literacy (although they say he does not appear to focus on his writing - according to the teacher it is becacuse he can't be bothered !).

The class teacher says his attitude makes him extremely "disadvantged" and predicted taht he will be "disadvantage" next year also. She then proceeded to name various children in the class and make direct comparisons with other children, telling me very personal and private issues about other children and their abilities.

I am an educator (higher education level) myself - it is against the confidentiality rules for a teacher to talk about other students in such detail and make direct comparisons. My son ought to be compared to an ideal "age group" not to others in the class. I have been keeping an eye on him this year as I do not wish to destroy his confidence. He is naturally an extrovert, confident little boy, but he has said on numerous occassions that he feels he is bottom of the class and that the other children think so too - a few have called him babyish and I wonder how much of that come's from the teacher's attitude towards him.

Luckily, because of his graet personality, he has close friendships with several other boys and seems to be happy at school, but I am really concerned as the school are very good at having one way dialogues with me, i.e. they talk, but never listen to anything I have to say about him. They seem to think they know more about him than I do and that their reasons for placing him in whatever group is absolutely right. The negative labelling of boys is quiet common at schools I'm afraid. The quiet, shy girls seem to get away with things and the boys don't. I'm trying to get my son out of the labelling scenario.

A boy and a girl have so far been pulled out of the same class. When I spoke to their parents they had similar concerns, the other boy was also one of the youngest. The girl's mother (the girl had a learning disability) said to me in private that her daughter's emotional well-being wasn't being addressed in this class. This rings alarm bells for me.

It's meant to be an Ofsted Grade 1 school, yet I hear things from others that are similar to my views, that they are more concerned about ticking Ofsted boxes than they are about the needs of individual children.

So what now? Do I pull him out and take him to another school which is less Ofsted glorified, or do I write to the Head (usually it's chats that are not written down so I want it written down) and ask for a written reply? Should I ask them to switch my son around as I see no justification why such a bright little boy (even they have admitted he is intelligent) is in the weakest group where he is not being stretched ?

The taecher says my son is NOT naughty - he has also never been accused of being aggressive, hitting or swearing (thank goodness as it woudl be untrue any way). For some strange reason (perhaps because the teachers have decided they doesn't like me for asking questions?) I think my son is very much on the teacher's radar so gets noticed more often for whatever he does (he has been sent outside the classroom on quite a few occassions on the most absurd reasons like switching off the light by mistake or carrying on with something when the teacher had asked him to stop and she had not waited for him to explain that he had not heard her!)
I noticed on a recent class trip that my son was told off more often than other boys, even though others were behaving quite badly by most parents/teachers standards my son was extremely well behaved. I see a lot of unfair treatment going on. He is on the teacher's radar while others seem to be below it and get away with things he can't. Please help.

OP posts:
pinkcushion · 15/02/2011 22:15

IN a good school with an effective Head teacher I'm quite sure bad teachers are dealt with effectively - my old school that did not happen and I'm quite sure we were not that unusual.

I'm sure bad teachers are dealt with effectively at your school

tiggerandpoohtoo but you have no idea what has happened to the bad teachers in the schools mentioned on this thread and to presume you do because you have knowledge of some schools isn't credible. Again the teaching profession like to suggest that because practices are good in their experience they must be like that everywhere - when will you all admit you are human!

pinkcushion · 15/02/2011 22:17

Oops meant to delete the first two lines - apologies!

ohmydear · 15/02/2011 22:19

why? pink, they are very sensible....

pinkcushion · 15/02/2011 22:22

I think I was repeating myself a little - no objection to the content Smile

ohmydear · 15/02/2011 22:24
Smile
bulby · 15/02/2011 22:46

Oh do get lost RMCW with you 'sorry but it's true' and 'i'm fairly well educated'. Well I'm very well educated and most people who bleat on about how bad the current education system is don't know their Piaget from their elbow, sorry but it's true. I chose the job because I wanted to do it, it's not my 3rd choice career or what I've done cos I failed elsewhere. There are shit teachers out there, hey there are shit parents but I don't tar them all (self included) with the same patronising brush.
OP speak to the school your little one may have been unfortunate enough to get one of the poor teachers but make sure your arguments are solid and grounded in fact. Think your argument through as you are comin across, and I'm sure you don't mean to, as defensive and blind to any faults your childight have.

RMCW · 16/02/2011 11:05

bulby (sure its not bowlby?????? Smile)

Just google the entrance requirements for some teacher training colleges....you may be surprised just how badly you can do academically and still be thought acceptable to teach the next generation.

Lots of people go into teaching as a last option. I personally know many who did.

When all those poor investment bankers lost their jobs in the city, what did they govt say????
"retrain as a teacher!!"

Teaching should be a vocation - as it is for you - the sad fact is that, for many, its just a job and, frankly, one they dont di very well.

If that offends you, tough.

smee · 16/02/2011 11:44

RMCW, personally I don't give a stuff how many qualifications a teacher has. Obviously they need a good basic education, but the key thing is whether they can inspire their students. Surely that's what matters. A first class degree, or even a degree of any sort, really doesn't mean you can teach.

I know I went to a highly academic secondary school, where we had very bright, but mostly completely dull teachers - pretty much all Oxbridge they were too.

Yes though, like you I know people who went into teaching for want of anything else to do too. Seem to remember from my friends, a lot just liked the idea of having another year as a student while doing their PGCE. Having said that, only the ones who found they enjoyed it and felt passionately, are still teaching. The rest were weeded out quite quickly or left horrified as it really wasn't for them.

And the govt suggested teaching to Bankers as a brilliant profession to be in, rather than a last resort. It was meant as a positive suggestion of a career which is more than worth having.

And no, I'm not a teacher. Smile

TheBFactor · 16/02/2011 12:04

bulby - I Do think RMCW has a point. Although there are many excellent teachers out there, SOME do/did go into teaching because they had nothing better to do, because it's meant to be a stable career and it's quite well paid. That is a fact. I went into teaching having had 2 previous careers (I didn't say it was my 3rd CHOICE) in industry.

I love teaching, I like my students and it suits my work/life balance with a small child at home. I really get on with my colleagues who have a great sense of humour. Some are excellent teachers. Forget the Ofsted ratings, you can spot a good teacher quiet easily were we are, the students like going to their classes !

I don't think the differences are necessarily in the quality of teaching, but no one can deny the fact that at fee paying schools individual children often get more attention which allows them to achieve more quickly. I went to 2 independent schools. My schools were huge, but we had small classes (not more than 15 in a class) and although I was very academic, I could get loads of 121 attention when I needed it. Private schools also tend to have very good commuinication links with parents.

These particular aspects are totally lacking at my ds current state school, were we have zero commuincation and where he gets zero or poor quality 121's when he needs it. That is why he is stuck at the bottom of the pile, not because he isn't clever enough, but because no one actually cares. He left Reception and Year 1 with nothing. I taught him to read and I am sure dh and I will be the ones to teach him Maths. There is little input from the school, I often wonder what he does there for 6 hours a day ! Teachers often get lazy and put all their focus on the high achievers. That is the sign of poor teaching.

I don't think you can put the blame entirely on the child or student. Teaching/learning are and ought to be a 50-50 process. Lazy teachers find it easier to blame the students/parents for everything that goes wrong. The fact is, if you are a poor quality teacher, your students never get motivated and leave school with very little. In my own teaching experience, motivation is often NOT intrinsic (i.e. you ain't born with it !!), the teacher has to help create it.

They may have behaviour problems and all sorts of other things going on in their lives which prevent them from focusing at school, but the sign of a good taecher is one who cares enough to find out WHY the child/studenst isn't achieving as he should.

The current school we are at doesn't say this out loud, but their defence mechanism is clearly in place to put all kinds of blame re. failure to thrive fairly and squarely on the child's/parents' shoulders.

Yes, I am very defensive about my son. I am thoroughly fed up with the school's negativity towards a child who is actually lovely and kind and caring towards other people. He isn't perfect, but he is a child, he needs adults to stand up for him.

I think my son deserves a better childhood experience at school and I am going to make sure he gets it.

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 16/02/2011 12:07

So are you going to move schools?

Feenie · 16/02/2011 12:26

"Forget the Ofsted ratings, you can spot good teacher quiet easily were we are, students like going to their classes !"

Shock Shock

smee · 16/02/2011 12:49

The B Factor - not all state schools are like yours. Lots really are very good. Move schools.

RMCW · 16/02/2011 14:22

smee My sons year 1 teacher could not spell and his use of grammar was very poor. The TAs were job share and one of them left after the first term. They then drafted in a dinner lady (sorry...lunchtime supervisor)

He was (supposed) to be teaching my son to read and write.

So, yes, I think a grasp of the basics is important. Its not about gaining a 1st or having 7 a levels...its about being able to do the very basics....I know of another primary teacher whose grasp of basic maths is non existant. Its frightening. she thinks its hilarious that she has to "teach" maths. Angry

The better the academic results then - generally - the better that person can read, write and do maths and therefore is better placed to show others?

Surely?

RMCW · 16/02/2011 14:24

Well said bfactor

do let us know how you get on
x

smee · 16/02/2011 15:01

RMCW. I agreed with you the basics are key, but my point really was that (so long as they're in place) the thing that matters if if they can teach and inspire. So I'd rather have someone with a third or basic teaching qualification who knows how to motivate, than someone with a first who can't relate to kids.

On your experience, if your son's teacher couldn't spell and it was so obvious, I agree it sounds far from good. What did the Head Teacher say when you complained? What was his qualification? Am genuinely curious.

RMCW · 16/02/2011 15:11

I once complained to the TA that she
a) had sent home the wrong level book and had been getting ds1 to read from a book 2 stages above what he was capable of leaving him very distressed when he got home and
b) her spelling and grammar in the reading log was appalling.

Unsurprisingly, I was a marked woman from then on!

His year 1 teacher was really dire, though.

I complained to the acting HT (HT on mat leave) and wrote to the board of governors....I received no reply.

I took my son out and home schooled for a while and he is now at a small village primary and loving it.

Its very hard when you have a bright, loving, kind child who just doesnt get reading and writing at age 4/5....at his old school it makes you into a sort of pariah......both dh and I are educated to degree level, I have read to my son every day since he was 2 weeks old Blush and our house is FULL of books. I did everything "right" and he still hated it.

Took me a long time to realise that the pre school/school was making him feel "stupid" and "slow".

It was heartbreaking.

I agree that good academic qualifications do not a good teracher make, but at least they should be able to spell, use grammar correctly and do basic maths!!!

The best teacher I ever had was an oxbridge grad though Smile

smee · 16/02/2011 15:58

That sounds awful - the fact the Governors didn't even write back says a lot about the school too. I thought they had to formally acknowledge any complaint.

We sound similar in that my son didn't get reading straight away either. Thankfully his school were brilliant, praised what he was good at and kept his enthusiasm going. I know we've been lucky though. Great to hear your son's thriving now. Smile

TheBFactor · 16/02/2011 16:29

"Its very hard when you have a bright, loving, kind child who just doesnt get reading and writing at age 4/5....at his old school it makes you into a sort of pariah......both dh and I are educated to degree level, I have read to my son every day since he was 2 weeks old and our house is FULL of books. I did everything "right" and he still hate it."

RMCW - you are soooooo right Smile - that sounds just like ds. He is clever, but just wasn't motivated, turned on, whatever you want to call it to wish to read when he was 4/5. He was getting frustrated because of the competition going on to see "who could read first" and he was left behind and no one cared. I cared, but didn't wish to push him when he wasn't ready.

This school doesn't give a damn that he is one of the youngest in the class, many boys in the group are 6 - 9 months older and have coped much much better. Whenever I have mentioned his age or the fact he was at home the whole time before he started 6 hours at Reception (he never went to nursery) it was brushed aside as unimportant detail.

I'm afarid at this age it is often to do with whether they are developmentally ready (I am quite nerdy about this and have read lots of research on how boys cope/don't cope at primary schools in the UK and USA) rather than how much one reads to them, how academic the parents are, etc. We are also generally very academic, in fact quite nerdy family...but still he jsut wasn't ready.

The minute he turned 6, he was picking up books and saying "mummy I'm going to read this one for you". No pushing, no shoving, he was ready to read : )

Yes, it helps to have a teacher who has qualifications several levels higher than the students in order to be able to teach them. I know for a fact from my own post-16 students that their number one priority in a teacher is subject knowledge, i.e. if you don't KNOW your stuff and can't explain/teach properly, they turn against you very very quickly.

So, yes, please don't go into teaching if you are not confident that you have good knowledge of your subject, no matter how old the kids are Grin....one day either the parents or the kids DO notice you don't know your phonics/geography/history/algebra, etc from your elbow !

OP posts:
Feenie · 16/02/2011 16:50

Or your quite from quiet, were from where....

TheBFactor · 16/02/2011 16:58

Feenie - I was talking about asking post-16 students/adult students not primary school children Shock

No, my son defo wouldn't know whether his teacher has poor grammar/maths or not, even if you asked him Grin

OP posts:
JoBettany · 16/02/2011 16:58

Feenie - Grin

Precisely! Nobody's perfect...

mrz · 16/02/2011 17:43

The best teacher I ever had was an oxbridge grad though Interesting the worst teacher I ever worked with had a first from Oxford ...lovely person very clever but no idea in the classroom ... gave up teaching after 6 months.

RMCW · 16/02/2011 17:54

Caveat.....I really liked his year 2 teacher..she seemd to "get" ds1...she assessed him verbally where possible as she knew he knew the answers, he just couldnt always write those answers down!

His reception teacher was also lovely but because she clashed with the then HT she left after a year. She was the one who told me that ds1 would get to 7 and just suddenly "get it".

Damage had been done, though.

smee Yes, its dreadful. My biggest regret is not taking him out in year 1 and reporting them to their precious OFSTED.

Ds1 has the vocab of a teenager...everyone comments on it. He watches things like "Dads Army", David Attenborough dvds and "Top Gear" rather than cartoons and sci- fi (nothing wrong with either of those btw!)

He is an orange belt at karate and goes to beavers too. When are out (i.e. at a restaurant) I have had people come over and tell me how well behaved my dc are. Sorry for the shameless bragging Blush) but I am soooo proud of him, I dont care if he isnt a fluent reader yet!!!

He is such a sweet kid and it kills me that he was made so very unhappy by teachers who couldnt see his abilties and labelled him as "struggling" at age 5 Sad Angry

There are some great teachers out there. I know I had 2 whose teachings still influence me today BUT there are also some who just shouldnt be in the profession and the damage they can cause is huge.

RMCW · 16/02/2011 17:55

mrz You make a valid point. Its ok being clever but you ahve to hae common sense.

I went to school with a guy who went on to study astrophysics at Oxbridge.....could barely tie his own shoelaces though!!! Grin

RMCW · 16/02/2011 17:56

have to have Blush Sorry, been a long day and off to Beavers now.........