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Primary education

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Concerned about son's year 2 teacher and grouping

218 replies

TheBFactor · 12/02/2011 21:03

Hello everyone
I am new here.
I have a wonderful, witty, energetic, extremely bright boy who is a summer baby, hence one of the youngest in a class of 30. We have been told since Reception that he is "immature" and behind the rest since the day he started Reception. The class teacher was very positive at the beginning of this year and seemed to really "get" my son finally, but more recently they seem to have turned negative again. He does not have Special Needs, but has been persistently grouped (I think for both Literacy and Maths) with a SEN boy and 2 overseas children whose English ability is weak. I am told my son is doing very well in Literacy (although they say he does not appear to focus on his writing - according to the teacher it is becacuse he can't be bothered !).

The class teacher says his attitude makes him extremely "disadvantged" and predicted taht he will be "disadvantage" next year also. She then proceeded to name various children in the class and make direct comparisons with other children, telling me very personal and private issues about other children and their abilities.

I am an educator (higher education level) myself - it is against the confidentiality rules for a teacher to talk about other students in such detail and make direct comparisons. My son ought to be compared to an ideal "age group" not to others in the class. I have been keeping an eye on him this year as I do not wish to destroy his confidence. He is naturally an extrovert, confident little boy, but he has said on numerous occassions that he feels he is bottom of the class and that the other children think so too - a few have called him babyish and I wonder how much of that come's from the teacher's attitude towards him.

Luckily, because of his graet personality, he has close friendships with several other boys and seems to be happy at school, but I am really concerned as the school are very good at having one way dialogues with me, i.e. they talk, but never listen to anything I have to say about him. They seem to think they know more about him than I do and that their reasons for placing him in whatever group is absolutely right. The negative labelling of boys is quiet common at schools I'm afraid. The quiet, shy girls seem to get away with things and the boys don't. I'm trying to get my son out of the labelling scenario.

A boy and a girl have so far been pulled out of the same class. When I spoke to their parents they had similar concerns, the other boy was also one of the youngest. The girl's mother (the girl had a learning disability) said to me in private that her daughter's emotional well-being wasn't being addressed in this class. This rings alarm bells for me.

It's meant to be an Ofsted Grade 1 school, yet I hear things from others that are similar to my views, that they are more concerned about ticking Ofsted boxes than they are about the needs of individual children.

So what now? Do I pull him out and take him to another school which is less Ofsted glorified, or do I write to the Head (usually it's chats that are not written down so I want it written down) and ask for a written reply? Should I ask them to switch my son around as I see no justification why such a bright little boy (even they have admitted he is intelligent) is in the weakest group where he is not being stretched ?

The taecher says my son is NOT naughty - he has also never been accused of being aggressive, hitting or swearing (thank goodness as it woudl be untrue any way). For some strange reason (perhaps because the teachers have decided they doesn't like me for asking questions?) I think my son is very much on the teacher's radar so gets noticed more often for whatever he does (he has been sent outside the classroom on quite a few occassions on the most absurd reasons like switching off the light by mistake or carrying on with something when the teacher had asked him to stop and she had not waited for him to explain that he had not heard her!)
I noticed on a recent class trip that my son was told off more often than other boys, even though others were behaving quite badly by most parents/teachers standards my son was extremely well behaved. I see a lot of unfair treatment going on. He is on the teacher's radar while others seem to be below it and get away with things he can't. Please help.

OP posts:
MigratingCoconuts · 14/02/2011 21:22

agreed Feenie, this sounds like an exceptionally unpleasant school to be in and bares no relationship whatsoever to my experiences at dd's school

ohmydear · 14/02/2011 21:23

it is recognisable feenie, but great if it doesnt happen at your school..........

RoadArt · 14/02/2011 21:41

Our kids are taught to respect each others abilities and that all children are different. They dont care who is top or bottom, who can do or cant, it is not made a priority in the school. If a situation like this every happened they would be strongly disciplined. It is shocking that the children are being encouraged to make comparisons.

The children are taught that all through life they will meet children and adults who are differnt to them and to accept everyone for who they are.

There is a lot of negativity on this post and I think the OP needs to take stock of what has been said and make a decision one way or another.

Feenie · 14/02/2011 21:46

I don't believe it's a common or garden UK phenomena, driven by the very existence of OFSTED and our education system.

HappyMummyOfOne · 14/02/2011 21:51

"this teacher is the only one who refuses to take parent helpers in the classroom. The only way I could go and see what is going on is by doing class trips."

You seem to want to do these things for the wrong reasons hence i'm not surprised the teacher doesnt want helpers. Parent helpers are there to do the small jobs that teachers run out of time to do or help with crafts/reading etc - they are not meant to be a chance to spy on the teacher. Besides if you work in education then i'm surprised you would have the time to help out and go on trips in term time.

Not all teachers are great, but if three teachers all agreed on the levels etc of your son then perhaps you need to listen to them and work with them.

TheBFactor · 14/02/2011 22:09

I have shown all the teachers at ds school a great deal of respect, in fact I think they are abusing the fact that we are not the average "pushy" snobs living in this area.

My husband is an incredibly polite individual who would never even dare approach them in any other way.

Not one of them can EVER accuse of us of being rude or non-diplomatic. I am naturally a diplomtic individual in professioanl situations. I think the school is abusing this fact to their advantage. We say nothing, so they do nothing to change the situation. We demand nothing for our boy, so they don't have to prove to us what they are doing to help him.

Respect in teaching is an interesting thing though - in my experience with students it needs to be EARNED from day one - it doesn't come naturally as a god-given right of a teacher !! In adult education at least, if you know your "stuff" and treat your students fairly, with good classroom managment, you often do earn it though which then makes teaching a real pleasure. I love teaching, it gives me the kind of job satisfaction I never had in my previous career.

Give respect to professionals? Eh, yes, but don't some hide behind the fact they have some sort of "professional" status and then abuse their position vis a vis the client/student/customer/patient/parent ? YES they do ! Bad lawyers do it, bad doctors do it, bad vicars do it....and guess what ? Bad teachers and Headmasters do it too.... ! Power in the hands of some people is a terrible/frightening thing. So I'm sorry to tell you this, but teachers are not ALL professionals in the true sense of the word.

Cory - I am sorry but you have misconstrued what I have said. My son is very kind to all the children in his class/group, but he does get upset by some of the comments which are unkind and a bit too aggressive and pushy about him being at the bottom of the class, etc. He needs to move out of the group for his self-confidence.

I wanted a re-grouping not because he is sitting with SEN or EFL, but to boost his confidence. In fact, I think all of his group should be regularly re-grouped. In some countries such groupings NEVER exist so as not to upset the children and create unnecessary competition. Of course, silly parents are also to blame for encouraging competition among 6 year olds who should have better things on their minds than who got the best spelling score last week ; )

I felt deeply sorry for one non-white boy in the class who has English as a second language and whose only crime seems to be his lack of "Britishness" in a very white middle class school - the teacher was treating him like a wild animal in a scene I was unlucky to have to witness.

OP posts:
BoysAreLikeDogs · 14/02/2011 22:14

hearing test

AbigailS · 14/02/2011 22:15

The more you post TheBFactor I wonder why you bother staying at the school? You clearly have SO many concerns why stay? Are you assuming every primary school is as crap as you feel this one is?

ohmydear · 14/02/2011 22:28

it is not fair to say as a lot seem to say, if you have a problem, even a major one, just leave the school. This is easier said than done for the OP, and friends etc make a decision a big decision. I find it very puzzling why a lot on this thread, instead of looking at the reasons and ways to fix the problem, just say if you dont like it go. Easier said than done, and not an appropriate response to the OPs dilemma.

AbigailS · 14/02/2011 22:31

So, in an ideal world, what would the solution be?

ohmydear · 14/02/2011 22:35

for the OP to find out definitively if there was a problem of favouritism or her son being singled out? is that so hard to do? I am not saying that this is the case, but I do not find that the stock answer of "you are a pushy parent" or "how dare you question the teacher" etc, etc.... is an effective response. There should be a method within schools of airing a problem without redress against the parent, teacher or child. It shouldnt be, just "how dare you" or "if you dont like it leave", it isnt a sports club it is a school, and more is at stake.

TheBFactor · 14/02/2011 22:37

Thanks for the comments. Huge assumptions by some people here I'm afarid. I have not been able to become a parent helper in previous year due to my own teaching commitments. This yaer I only teach afternoons nad happened to be free for this trip. Ds asked me to go on the trip as it was a particularly interesting one for him.

It is malicious to suggest I went "to spy" on his teacher ! What a dreaful thing to say. Where I work I am constantly peer observed, Ofsed observed, professional association observed, trainee-teacher observed, you name it. I have observations coming out my ears. A good thing too, my students appreciate it.

If a parent wanted to come and observe me teaching, I would welcome it. It is unusual where I am as we teach post-16 and my students are old enough to raise their own concerns in student reviews with our managers, etc. Thankfully, I don't have too many parents at my door asking me why I shout/humiliate their kids, as I don't use shouting/humiliation as a class management tool ! Modelling good behaviour and mutual respect work much better.

I think primary school teachers who do not allow parent helpers may come across as having something to hide to be honest and this one really does. I am a very experienced observer, it's part of my job. I'm lucky to have the skills to pick up on poor teaching/management methods very quickly.

Even if my son was not at this school and I was purely there to "observe" I would have made the same assessment of this particular teacher. She rants, is sarcastic to students who give the wrong answer (they are 6 FFS), and picks on particular students who happen to be on her radar. I gather on Ofsted observation days she behaves rather differently.

OP posts:
AbigailS · 14/02/2011 22:43

I do realise moving schools can be hard, but it was an option raised earlier. My last comments were in light of my feelings that there was little hope of the OP regaining any faith in the school, and we really need to have faith the people to we are entrusting our children to. The only way she would believe in the school again is if they admitted all the previous teachers were wrong, she was totally right, etc.... and how likely is that, for what ever reason? I feel she is so disillusioned with the school that it is stressing out her family and life is too short.

TheBFactor · 14/02/2011 22:46

Thanks ohmydear - some very sensible comments there. My son is very attached to a few of the boys in the class, so it hasn't been all doom and gloom and that is the MAIN reason he has been there so long.

I get so worried I can't sleep - I am on sleeping tablets again.

Boysarelikedogs - thanks - are you recommending one for me or for ds ? ; ) He had one done last year. His ears and eyes have been thoroughly tested. Normal.

OP posts:
Quattrocento · 14/02/2011 22:47

Move to independent asap

TheBFactor · 14/02/2011 22:58

Abigail - I am going to move him for sure. The sensible things people have said here have put things into perspective. I have been too frightened to upset ds by moving him away from his good friends in the class. There are a couple of lovely boys in the group, kind boys like ds. I will have to make sure he stays in touch with his old friends.
We will have to wait until he finishes this year though.

OP posts:
ohmydear · 14/02/2011 22:58

abigail s - yes I do know what you mean, and life is definitely too short! and maybe it is the right thing to do to leave, but just think that it is a very very hard thing to do for OP, and problems should be able to be sorted out, especially at school.... it shouldnt be a matter of proving everyone right or wrong just an objective view for the dcs sake....there should be more empathy for the OPs position as it is obviously very stressful for her and to be attacked for feeling this way is not necessarily helpful all round...the teachers have to take some responsibility for her feeling this way, whether right or wrong..

TheBFactor · 14/02/2011 22:59

Quattro - I don't have the money for private schools.

OP posts:
AbigailS · 14/02/2011 23:05

Private isn't always better! There are "good" and "bad" in both sectors. TheBFactor - There will be a school out there that is a good match for your son. Ohmydear - I wasn't "attacking" the OP I was wondering why, when the only comments she had made about the school were so negative there was any debate.

mrz · 15/02/2011 07:50

ohmydear Mon 14-Feb-11 22:35:30

for the OP to find out definitively if there was a problem of favouritism or her son being singled out? is that so hard to do?
I'm afraid as it is such a subjective issue it would be impossible to prove one way or another.

There should be a method within schools of airing a problem without redress against the parent, teacher or child. There are clear methods of airing problems and clearly defined procedures that heads must follow in the event of a parental complaint and there should be no redress although understandably some parents fear there will be.

Abigail the OP has stated she has no trust in the school and fears the consequences of complaining in such a situation there is very little hope of both parties working together for the good of the child.

ohmydear · 15/02/2011 08:09

mrz "Im afraid it is such a subjective issue it would be impossible to prove one way or another" I am very surprised by this answer, mrz, as using your previous comparison of other occupations, if this was the case in politics or business, as it often is, there would never be any resignations/sackings/disciplining etc... as it is "subjective"? There are many ways of proving or disproving a complaint, if it is justified, but you are right, if the school has not got the appetite to find out, then no wonder parents are troubled by reporting it, and some teachers continue to excercise favouritism etc.. with potentially no fear of action!!

"there are clear methods of airing problems.... and there should be no redress" agreed, in principle, but afraid in reality the fear exists because in some cases when a parent complains, it does affect the parent/teacher/child relationship and it shouldnt.

Have to add that a lot of schools are fantastic and do operate very fairly, however some do not, and the OP is describing one that in her opinion, does not.

mrz · 15/02/2011 08:49

"The scale of false allegations against teachers was yesterday exposed in official figures showing just 2 per cent result in cautions or convictions."

General Teaching Council for England

ohmydear · 15/02/2011 08:56

not sure what you mean? false allegations resulted in 2 per cent cautions or proved true allegations?

RMCW · 15/02/2011 08:57

bfactor

I agree that private isnt always better...we have a very expensive private school in the next town yet the comp down the road got the best GSCE results in the county last year!!

It is a big decision to move your child from a school and its one I fought for far too long.

My son is also a lovely, kind, friendly little chap and had some good friends in his class (which happily he still sees at beavers and karate).

If I am brutally honest with myself I should have moved him after the 1st term in year 1....but I had just had a baby and was struggloing with feeding, sleeping, anaemia etc - I am not making excuses for myself but thats how it was - and my dh was very anti moving him for lots of reasons.....there is no other school in our small village so now we have to travel everyday to school and will have to do do more when ds2 starts pre school BUT its been fine.

He has made new friends, his 2 cousins go to his new school and its much smaller (about a third of the size of his old school) and is very much a traditional village primary....its all about the kids and how they can best learn.

We are very happy so far.

My ds1 spends time with the dc in the year above for some lessons and plays with dc of all ages at playtime whereas at this old school this was frowned upon....have no idea why.

It is parents evening in a couple of weeks and I will know more about how ds1 is getting on then...al I know is that he is happy.

Perhaps it is very wrong of me, but right now, when he is only 7, that is all I care about.

tiger I could also read at 4. My parents aare the complete antithesis of "pushy"...they just enrolled me at the local library at a very young age. Some parents 8are* very pushy. Sorry. Its a fact. I am happy for your dd that you arent.
You have obviously provided her with a happy and non judgemental enviroment which has enabled her to learn to read very early.

RMCW · 15/02/2011 08:59

mrz I have very similar feeling about the GTC as I do about the GMC....they look after their own.

How many GPs/surgeons get struck off despite gross negligence/misconduct?????

Same with teachers IMO.