Concerned about son's year 2 teacher and grouping

[TheBFactor]

Hello everyone
I am new here.
I have a wonderful, witty, energetic, extremely bright boy who is a summer baby, hence one of the youngest in a class of 30. We have been told since Reception that he is "immature" and behind the rest since the day he started Reception. The class teacher was very positive at the beginning of this year and seemed to really "get" my son finally, but more recently they seem to have turned negative again. He does not have Special Needs, but has been persistently grouped (I think for both Literacy and Maths) with a SEN boy and 2 overseas children whose English ability is weak. I am told my son is doing very well in Literacy (although they say he does not appear to focus on his writing - according to the teacher it is becacuse he can't be bothered !).

The class teacher says his attitude makes him extremely "disadvantged" and predicted taht he will be "disadvantage" next year also. She then proceeded to name various children in the class and make direct comparisons with other children, telling me very personal and private issues about other children and their abilities.

I am an educator (higher education level) myself - it is against the confidentiality rules for a teacher to talk about other students in such detail and make direct comparisons. My son ought to be compared to an ideal "age group" not to others in the class. I have been keeping an eye on him this year as I do not wish to destroy his confidence. He is naturally an extrovert, confident little boy, but he has said on numerous occassions that he feels he is bottom of the class and that the other children think so too - a few have called him babyish and I wonder how much of that come's from the teacher's attitude towards him.

Luckily, because of his graet personality, he has close friendships with several other boys and seems to be happy at school, but I am really concerned as the school are very good at having one way dialogues with me, i.e. they talk, but never listen to anything I have to say about him. They seem to think they know more about him than I do and that their reasons for placing him in whatever group is absolutely right. The negative labelling of boys is quiet common at schools I'm afraid. The quiet, shy girls seem to get away with things and the boys don't. I'm trying to get my son out of the labelling scenario.

A boy and a girl have so far been pulled out of the same class. When I spoke to their parents they had similar concerns, the other boy was also one of the youngest. The girl's mother (the girl had a learning disability) said to me in private that her daughter's emotional well-being wasn't being addressed in this class. This rings alarm bells for me.

It's meant to be an Ofsted Grade 1 school, yet I hear things from others that are similar to my views, that they are more concerned about ticking Ofsted boxes than they are about the needs of individual children.

So what now? Do I pull him out and take him to another school which is less Ofsted glorified, or do I write to the Head (usually it's chats that are not written down so I want it written down) and ask for a written reply? Should I ask them to switch my son around as I see no justification why such a bright little boy (even they have admitted he is intelligent) is in the weakest group where he is not being stretched ?

The taecher says my son is NOT naughty - he has also never been accused of being aggressive, hitting or swearing (thank goodness as it woudl be untrue any way). For some strange reason (perhaps because the teachers have decided they doesn't like me for asking questions?) I think my son is very much on the teacher's radar so gets noticed more often for whatever he does (he has been sent outside the classroom on quite a few occassions on the most absurd reasons like switching off the light by mistake or carrying on with something when the teacher had asked him to stop and she had not waited for him to explain that he had not heard her!)
I noticed on a recent class trip that my son was told off more often than other boys, even though others were behaving quite badly by most parents/teachers standards my son was extremely well behaved. I see a lot of unfair treatment going on. He is on the teacher's radar while others seem to be below it and get away with things he can't. Please help.

Having read through the thread I too was shocked surprised to discover the OP is an educator.
As a Y2 teacher I have high expectations of my class regardless of gender or birthday and find so strange you are measuring his achievement against that of his friends he is reading books at the same level as his friends who are 6 months older and assume because he can read the same books as they and she says he is below average for writing and maths, which I don't think is the case judging from other boys who are 6 months older than him in the same class. Have you stopped to consider they may also be below average?

If the rest of the class are all within the appropriate reading and maths levels for their age, but it has taken extra help at home from you to get your son there, then it seems there must be something different about your son and reason for his slow development (after all the teacher managed to educate the rest ohis class to appropriate levels, why not yours?). You have now also admitted he didn't make appropriate progress in R or Y1 and school seem to have placed him in the appropriate ability group as far as I can make out.

I don't think the age difference at year 2 can be blamed for lack of achievement. He maybe one of the youngest, but there is a sliding scale of age within classes, and there is likely to be many July/August born children. By Y2 many of the age differences should be less obvious.

The negative labelling of boys is quiet common at schools I'm afraid.
Possibly in your school, not in mine! My top group for maths has 7 boys and 1 girl, for English I have 6 boys and 3 girls. Children are "labelled" ( if labelled at all!) on their actions and efforts.

I feel that whatever is said here you've lost all faith in the teacher so need to address the matter with the head. If he always backs the teacher you make the best of it until september or move him. I would be concerned that moving him is telling him she's in the wrong and he's isn't ever. Starting him with the wrong attitude in a new school. Only IMO as a mum with a reception son and no educator experience outstanding or otherwise.

The boys in my class (including 2 with August birthdays) are achieving more in reading, writing and maths than the girls in general and have done since reception.

Way too much emphasis is placed on the whole "summer baby" thing.

I don't think there is an easy solution here.
"He left Reception and Year 1 with no reading ability and was unable to do simple maths." Well, then there was something very wrong, somne time ago. What did the school say then ?
Ds1's school sounds similar to yours. Brilliant. Not good with SN. Ds1 is very bright, and thriving academically, but I am not sure the school is right for him. Saying that, we all need to conform. It is true.
I can't see your relationship with the school getting much better. I think you need to check outt he other school.

I'd suggest you move school - having experienced a situation similar to yours - I was left with no faith in the school. I didn't trust them and I had good reason - many many good reasons, we chatted to the Head but she lacked balls and backed up her staff. Other parents had been complaining about the school constantly, many removed their child, it got to the point where there wasn't much to lose - for us Ofsted ratings and fantastic SATs results were pretty meaningless.

I think their new school is amazing - Ofsted would say it's only satisfactory, their emphasis is on the happiness and well being of the children and it was obvious from day one, in everything they do - the contrast in the culture of the two schools is startling. My dcs are happy and I can trust the school to get on with their job, looking after their emotional and educational well being while they are at school.

I think you are getting a pretty hard time on this thread - attacking your lack of paragraphs is pathetic. I can only guess the posters have only ever experienced schools with the ethos of the school we moved to and not the shitty school we left - ignorance for those posters in this case really is bliss.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Head but she lacked balls and backed up her staff as would any head worth their salt at least in public and assuming you weren't privy to weren't aware what happened behind the scenes exactly how it should be.

Of course I would expept that they needed to back up their staff in public but what I meant was nothing changed following these conversations, nothing ever changed despite several parents complaining on different issues - to which I draw the conclusion that the Head lacked something. I saw enough to realise it was in the best interests of my dcs to just walk away.

Of course I would expept I meant Of course I would expect, before anyone starts attacking my spelling

I agree that I think you should look into a different school for your son. I think you've been given a hard time in this post, we are all protective of our children and want what's best. Its very hard to take criticism where our children are concerned.

My ds' school is an excellent school in many ways (outstanding on Ofsted, top of league tables), we were so pleased to get him in there. The experience has been somewhat disappointing though, some really simple stuff they don't so well. I have a friend whose kids are at a much less desirable school and they do some really great things there. Things that OUR school could benefit from. They are more concerned with the results I think and putting everyone in a box. Yes, everyone has to conform to a certain extent, but they are still 6 year old children who are all individuals.

Have a look round at some schools and see how they will suit your ds (you know him best...you are his mum). Alternatively work with the school, push back on them for more help. Good luck

Dear TheBFactor

You are in a really difficult situation. You have clearly no longer have any trust in the school and there is probably very little the school can say or do to restore that. The best option might be to move on.

As other posters have said you have a different view of your child to the school. There can be a huge difference between what a child can achieve alone with their parent at home, compared to more independently in a busy classroom. There may be very good reasons, that really benefit your child, for the grouping arrangements. But with your current frame of mind, and the lack of faith in the school, you are unlikely to agree with their opinions.

I find ?witty and extrovert? children are often the ?class clown? ? great sense of humour, popular with other children, great characters ? but this can affect their ability to focus on the task in hand ? learning. Teachers are aware of this and do worry about it, both for that child and the impact it can have on others? learning.

As far as the school trip: ?energetic? children are sometimes a risk to themselves and others when out of school. Maybe the teacher was concerned about safety. Parents on trips do have tunnel vision regarding their own child. Other children (and their parents) may feel the teacher was stricter / told them off more.

On another note I very much doubt that the year 2 teacher?s assessments are ?random and disorganised? ? Year 2 teacher assessments are constantly under the microscope as they lead to the end of key stage assessments at the end of year 2. Staff have been set targets for individuals and the cohort, and have to monitor progress towards them throughout the year. They also have external moderation. You?ve made your judgment on the teacher?s assessment ability on spelling tests; very little of Year 2 assessments are made by tests. You could ask to discuss the teacher assessments, but I doubt you will want to agree with what you hear due to the breakdown of the relationship with this teacher.

Finally, your child may be picking up that you don?t believe teacher?s professional ability. The head backing his / her staff shows that they do trust the teacher. All in all I think that you / your child and the school are not a good match. In my opinion it?s time to search for a better match. A fresh start, with a school you trust might be the very best thing for your child, and after all that?s really what we all want.
Good Luck

Well put Abigail S

nothing changed following these conversations perhaps after speaking to her staff the head decided they were in the right

Perhaps - perhaps not. Teachers aren't always right. They are sometimes lazy, they are sometimes cruel, they sometimes openly laugh at children making them feel completely humiliated, they are sometimes horribly sarcastic to infants, they sometimes scream at children and sometimes as a parent helper you witness these things happening and you wish you hadn't and the Head can try to deny these happenings (I heard her scream violently at children too) and she can try to suggest her staff are brilliant and you can try to defend a situation you have no knowledge of but I know what I saw and I know what I heard from the horse's mouth, my biggest concern was for my children, not proving I was right.

Astonishing that people here are so ready to put the blame on the child/parents but never on poor quality teaching !

I meet post-16 students every single day who start at our Sixth Form unable to read or write or do simple Maths at the basic levels required at that age. Is it JUST the parents you are happy to blame ?

There are some very petty people here hung up on the light switch thing. You don't wish to hear someone with genuine concerns so you string them up for leaning on a light switch and switching it off by mistake (such an appalling crime it deserved a big shout from a stressed out teacher and being sent out of the room for over 30 minutes because she forgot he was out there !!).

Yes, it is possible. I have done it myself at home, you lean on the wall, on the switch, the switch goes off unintentionally. Get a criminal lawyer/police officer to explain to you - it is quite possible and many have been known to do it without the use of force immediately afterwards.

It was a low level switch on the wall, at his height, he leaned on it unintentionally, it went off by mistake.

We know our own children well enough to know whether they have made a genuine mistake or not, my son doesn't go out of his way to be a pain in people's backsides as someone here put it - it's not in his nature.

It's not about sticking up for them no matter what, it's about the adults who are far from professional. The teacher is the ADULT PROFESSIONAL who needs to make good judgements about her students.

The UK is pretty much bottom of the list in the industrialised world for the things schools get Ofsted Outstanding ratings for (Maths, Literacy and Science) and in the UNICEF/UN report for the unhappiest children in Europe - according to the kids themselves who were interviewed quite a lot of the root causes of their misery are to do with poor schooling.

So the question is what's so great about our education system? I don't blame every single teacher for this, there are some excellent teachers out there, I had a few when I was at school and in highger education. The qusetion is what's the government doing to sort it all out? Not much - is the obvious answer.

The rest of the world is way ahead of our kids in Literacy, Maths and Science. Read the reports. It gave me a wake up call to watch out for my own kids. Read what they say about places like Finland and Hong Kong.

Yes, in answer to someone here, I DO have an agenda. It is to stop burying my head in the sand and "conforming" and help my own son (as well as hopefully some of my own students) to build up enough self confidence to escape the worst of it.

For me it's about self-confidence and motivation. If that gets knocked out of you at age 6, it's damned hard to regain it when you have dropped out of school at age 16.

Thanks for those of you with good advice. Some of it was excellent and it has been taken on board. My husband and I are considering what to do next.

Children in the bottom groups can be really bright. How many times have you seen MN's posting about how their child has moved from the bottom set to the top set over a few years how do you explain this?

I obviously can't defend a situation I was not party to, nor was I trying to, simply pointing out that the head for whatever reasons had decided no further action was required pinkcushion.

Thanks pink cushion. I was at the school once, sitting well screened from the class door talking to another teacher, when I heard my son's teacher (she has a distinctive voice) pull a child outside the door (I can only assume it was a boy - my son says she doesn't scream at the girls) she screamed at the top of her voice "I'm sick and tired of YOU, I will be calling your parents in").

It is impossible that this was not heard inside the classroom by the other children. I heard it all the way down a corridor, so what is the point of screaming at them outside the classroom so LOUD it can be heard inside the classroom?

I don't know about other teachers here, but I felt deeply sorry for the child and I know that my son has had simailr humiliation from the teacher, including persistent reference to the fact he is the youngest in the class and the word "toddler" used to describe him in front of his friends.

Maybe some teachers/parents find this acceptable, I think it's disgraceful and I would never ever talk to my own students like that. It is cruel and humiliating.

Class clown or not, no child or older student deserves to be humiliated in front of his peers and other adults. It's called good classroom management. It's unnecessary. The children get the impression that it's ok to call each other names and put each other down. Is this good teaching?

Unsurprisingly, this teacher is the only one who refuses to take parent helpers in the classroom. The only way I could go and see what is going on is by doing class trips.

You have missed the point about the class trip. He did not do ANYTHING that would be classed as naughty or dangerous. He was walking normally and behaving normally, not doing anything abnormal. He is simply on her radar.

I saw one boy put his bottom in another boys face and make a farting sound. If my son had done that I can only imagine how she would have reacted. This boy was not noticed and therefore not told off.

I see the boys in his class in our home as well as in class parties, etc. Some of them have appalling behaviour and language. They are just lucky they are not on her list.

I have done enough class observations as a teacher to pick up on favouritism, believe you me.

In fact, I have been extremely diplomatic and professional in all my discussions with the school. I am on good terms with the teachers and the Head. It would be idiotic to do otherwise. What I have said here has NEVER been raised with any of the teachers.

I am not that silly, they would simply penalise my son if I showed my true feelings.

The question is do I pull him out and how would that make him feel when he is separated from his best friends ? I don't know, I will have to see how my son feels about it. Also what guarantee do I have that the next school will be any better?

Why is he in the group he is in ?

The other parents have been pushy and made a point of not having their child sit with SEN and EFL children and so far I HAVE SAID NOTHING.

It is that sort of school with those sorts of parents. The other parents would be up in arms.

I know of one parent who compalined about her son's grouping last year. His group was instantly changed and re-named.

I have been too diplomatic.