"punishment" in year 1

[makemineaginandtonic]

DD is not settling into Yr1 particularly well and especially dislikes "carpet time" because it's boring and her bum goes numb. Today she was talking (actually reciting a poem from a book she borrowed from school!) during carpet time and as a result was delayed going out to play time and had to spend extra time on the carpet.

I really don't agree with "punishments" such as this, especially when it is keeping her from a physical activity which might actually calm her down and make it easier to sit still!

What other experiences of "punishments" are out there?

should I talk to the teacher and tell her what I think?

Re-read the thread.

Sorry Porto, I hadn't seen that reference. But you know, the child's clocked up two schools before Yr1. No biggy unless you know why. If the OP's going to switch schools every time her DD misbehaves and is pulled up on it, where will it end?

Maybe in a great school with good teachers who take time to personalise teaching?

Or maybe in consistent disruptive behaviour, school-refusing, and extremely low academic achievements with consequences that will last a lifetime.

I thought that she had changed to the second school because the teachers had a 'better' attitude?
It will be interesting in 10 yrs time to find out what sort of passage DD has had through school-I predict a rocky one, unless she realises the rights of the other children.

Bottom line here is that the OP's dd was disrupting lesson time, and this is not acceptable. She received a fairly minor punishment for this - as someone said earlier in the thread, the rationale is 'if you waste the class's time by talking now, you will lose time at breaktime.'

She came out of school in floods of tears - but presumeably this was some time after the loss of some of her breaktime - I doubt she had been that distressed from the imposition of the punishment until the end of school - the school would have had to take some action if that were the case.

I suspect that she burst into tears when she saw her mum, and poured out the story of the teacher's nastiness, in the full knowledge that her mum would back her up against the teacher.

Makemineaginandtonic - would you be happy if a lesson your dd enjoyed was disturbed by another child being allowed to recite something, or would you prefer that your child had a learning atmosphere free of disruption? If you'd be happy with this, then by all means go and share your views with the teacher, but if you want your child to be able to learn in a relatively peaceful atmosphere, then you are going to have to back the school up - and that means accepting that your child is just as subject to school discipline as any other child there.

I have a child with severe enough special needs to require a full-time 1-1 helper plus my two 'regular' kids. I am not a teacher. But I still think it is NOT ON for one child to be allowed to disrupt the learning of all the others. If you think they have a problem, sort that out, otherwise tell them to behave themselves. (ps, age grouping is irrelevant. In an office, or any social event, whatever the ages of the attendees, interrupting and talking over people and stopping other people from listening is always rude)

This thread is rather going round in circles. The OP must know, even though she won't accept it, that she can't have everything she wants in a state school: it is mass education, class sizes are rising because of changing demographics and unfortunately that ain't gonna get any better, and teachers have to teach within the targets set by the national curriculum and are regulated by OFSTED. To move from the rarefied atmosphere of home or even a private nursery to a school is a shock, but they do what they need to in order to give every child a fighting chance.

If the daughter is as prodigal as suggested, the parents ought to encourage her instead to put her talents to better use: helping other kids, taking responsibility in the classroom etc. MOST if not all learning environments that are publicly funded work as communities of learning, not supermarkets: you don't get to just go in and demand whatever you expect poured into their heads - parents are expected to support the hidden curriculum that socialises children into sound learning strategies.

If you don't like it, the choices are to home ed or to find a private school that suits your child better.

However, this doesn't make the hidden curriculum RIGHT, or beyond challenge and parents as partners need to have their views on this respected and integrated into schooling IMHO. It may be seen as 'undermining' teachers when done badly and selfishly as in this post. But I'm sure most teachers would welcome conditions, behaviour, class sizes, gender dynamics etc that facilitated better learning, more individual needs being met, smaller class sizes also, because it would allow them to teach to their own strengths.

So there's a confusion between the individual need here, and the social context: as parents I think we can best address the latter by supporting teachers at an individual level, but working with them at a policy level (as governors, reps etc) to begin to address the broader issues of how to manage these things. I suspect it is many headteachers, and OFSTED however, who limit parents' AND teachers' involvment in such discussions about how things could be done differently.

I am surprised to find that people think that private education would allow a DC to interrupt the class-if anything they tend to be more traditional. If I was paying for education I would be paying for small classes and for my DC to be able to learn in peace-I would be most certainly go in and complain if there was a DC preventing this.

Of course teachers would welcome smaller classes, more freedom etc but it doesn't get beyond the fact that interrupting anyone when they are speaking is rude and that a 5 yr old, unless they have SN, should know that. It would be just as bad if a DC had been telling the class something and another DC started reciting poetry while they were in mid flow.My mother taught me very early on that if I rushed in to say something and she was talking to someone else then I waited until she had finished-unless it was an emergency e.g.dripping blood!

Agree that most private schools I know of are chosen by parents precisely because they are more traditional and stricter about behaviour from an early age.

The problem is not that the child disrupted (many children do from time to time) or that the teacher dished out a minor punishment (as teachers do), but that the mum did not help her dd to rationalise and get over it.

Most parents have to deal with a child coming rushing out of school (or from a playdate at a friend's house or a session at ballet/football) bursting from a sense of injury because they were told off or did not get to run things their way. This is not just about how the state school system runs: this is what will happen to a high spirited child when she is in company with other people. The parent's job is to help her not to blow an incident up out of all proportion.

Igitur, I do personalise teaching but there is only so far you can go to do that in a class of 30 children and in a school day from 9am - 3pm .

The world doesn't work like that and a private school would certainly not tolerate that kind of behaviour either.

I wasn't of the view that private schools would be less disciplinarian {not sure if recent posters meant me?)

I was just making the point that smaller classes give a different atmosphere and that's what people pay for (not me btw)

And can I say I ABSOLUTELY agree that no child should be interrupting carpet time to declaim poetry. If I had heard about my kid doing this, I don't think I'd be able to show my face in the playground for mortification. There's a time and a place for showing off, and it isn't when kids are learning to give and take in a large group...

Smaller classes do give a different atmosphere and I am all for them- but it still doesn't make it OK for a DC to disrupt others. It doesn't matter whether you have 28 DCs on a carpet or 8 DCs they still can't spout poetry against someone speaking!

igitur you clearly know very little about the education system trying looking at family grouping

igitur "Maybe in a great school with good teachers who take time to personalise teaching?"

And there are many of these. However, I guarantee none of them will accept a child reciting over poetry over someone else (anyone else) talking.

Have skimmed the thread which does indeed seem rather predictable: poster comes here apparently seeking advice but actually seeking validation for PFB's bad behaviour, thus is outraged by the many sensible replies given about how discipline works in school.

First, OP, your DD will get told off in school if she misbehaves. Either HE or suck it up.

Secondly, if you are going to try to patronise us all with your great knowledge of Shakespeare, get the quotation right, otherwise you just end up looking a bit of a fool.

Thirdly, igitur, I think you'll find that it's actually those who can, do; those who can do better, teach