"punishment" in year 1

[makemineaginandtonic]

DD is not settling into Yr1 particularly well and especially dislikes "carpet time" because it's boring and her bum goes numb. Today she was talking (actually reciting a poem from a book she borrowed from school!) during carpet time and as a result was delayed going out to play time and had to spend extra time on the carpet.

I really don't agree with "punishments" such as this, especially when it is keeping her from a physical activity which might actually calm her down and make it easier to sit still!

What other experiences of "punishments" are out there?

should I talk to the teacher and tell her what I think?

The problem with free spirits is that you cannot have 30 of them in a classroom, because they will all get upset ("I wanted to hear the story/show my picture/answer the teacher's question, but all the other children kept talking and it took all afternoooooon").

2 minutes poetry recital per child makes 60 minutes- and then of course the first child will have thought of something else she wants to tell.

Besides, if they cannot listen to the teacher without interrupting, then they won't listen to your dd either. How would she like that?

So how do you decide who gets to be a free spirit, given the fact that they cannot all be allowed to be? The one with the pushiest parent? And how do you get your dd to accept that somebody else is a free spirit?

I know I will be ignored or flamed but I really have to say something!!

Why do you all feel the need to be so rude, from the very first responses to the OP, posters have been unnecessarily harsh.

I do agree that the OPS DD needs to learn to sit still at carpet time, but the responses seem to be full of negativity and bitchiness rather than helpful suggestions.

I dont know how many of you are teachers, but I hope to God it isnt many.

And the poster who said a PRIVATE letter to a teacher, was read out in the staff room and laughed at!!! That is so unprofessional and totally out of order.

I have taught in the past and if I was the teacher of this little girl, I wouldnt think the OP was a PITA if she wanted to talk to me, I would think it was part of my job to discuss the situation with her.

I have also been in year R and Y1 classes where the children are expected to sit for far too long listening to a teacher droning on about nothing in particular. Its no wonder some children find it hard to stay focused.

I am only posting this because I dont want parents reading this thread to think that all teachers are an unsympathetic lot.

OP if I were you I would go and speak to the teacher. I would want to know how long she is being expected to sit still for, [she is saying her bum gets numb? sounds like a long time to me) and also if she had been given a warning about her behaviour before she was "punished". I would tell her that your DD hates carpet time so she is aware of this.

I would also ask her what she thinks you can all do to stop this whole situation.

Great post QuickLookBusy...

I do not believe in punishments in general and I believe children do not 'learn to sit still' by depriving them of free play. But obviously, I am just a crazy mum who believes the world revolves around me and my children... I do believe there is an incredible acceptance of every 'minor' thing happening in schools. Raising a concern -unless your child is the victim of bullying or similar- makes you and your child a PITA.

Obsession with ORT levels is fine too.

We are not all teachers, Quick; some of us are parents. And therefore found it annoying when the OP refused to listen to quite measured and sensible posts, and spoke of her dd as if special rules should apply to her. If she had responded differently, I am sure the bitch fest would not have developed.

Besides, our children do not appreciate the class time being dominated by free spirits- that just means that children interested in learning do not get to learn and shy children never get to speak. And being in the same class as a child whose mum thinks she should have special treatment is basically bad news for everybody else.

Also, those of us who have had little fidget bums can see that a little discipline has actually helped them to make the most of school and not be a pain to others. My ds has had playtime detention and he needed it, to remember that he had to consider others. It has certainly not scarred him in any way. But then I didn't overreact when I found out about it either (oh dear, well never mind, you do have to learn to listen, you know- and then change the subject).

As for the bum getting numb, it is exactly the sort of thing my children would have complained of after one minute if they didn't happen to want to do a certain activity. Some children are drama queens.

DS2's behaviour was pretty awful throughout the reception year, For almost the entire year, I had to carry him into school as he would just flop outside the school gates and refuse to move (completely crushed the free spirit in me, I can tell you). Apparently, he would smile at the other mums as I carried him (and sometimes dragged him) in and was as happy as a spring bunny 5 minutes after I left. His behaviour out of school was fairly challenging too and I am sure that many people thought he had special needs. DH & I did have our concerns but we also felt, at times, that the problem was due to the fact that he was highly intelligent, was thinking out of the box and was completely bored by the whole school experience. Nevertheless, we fully co-operated with the school, agreed that he should be punished when he transgressed, but welcomed the fact that he was rewarded when he did as he was told. Really, it was the best thing we could have done.

The OP may have a child who is advanced, but its no good having a gifted or talented child if they can't work in unison with others, if they can't take instructions, if they are rude and selfish. Ultimately, they are going to be out in the big bad world of work, so they need to know that they are merely part of a jigsaw, not the entire thing.

There were times when I worried that the "one size fits all" approach would crush DS2's "free spirit", but he is still thinking outside the box and no doubt wil always do so. He is now 8 and, for the last couple of years, his teachers have been keen to tell me how much they love having him in their class.

But all of you are making assumptions about the OPs DD from the very first response. You say "some children are drama queens" yes im sure you are right, but how do you know that they hadnt been sitting on the carpet for an hour when the DD decided to recite a poem?? nobody asked the op for any info..

How did any of you KNOW that this wasnt the very first time she had been disruptive???

The very FIRST responce to the OP was to say she would possibly be labelled a PITA if she spoke to the teacher!! A ridiculous response which offered no constructive advise, and was then followed by numerous posts in a similar vein.

Sorry my last post was in response to cory

Well, the very FIRST response to the OP focused on the effect that disruptive behaviour has on the rest of the class, which seems to me to be absolutely relevant and constructive because the OP was (fairly naturally) focused entirely on her own child's preferences and desires, whereas the teacher (and the parents of other children in the class) have to think about the bigger picture. And then added in the comment about being seen as a PITA.

Prof but why add the comment about being a PITA without asking ANY questions about the circumstances?? Its still a ridiculous response, which was repeated by others. Why shouldnt a parent speak to their child's teacher about a problem??

As I have said I am only posting because many comments have been totally unhelpful, and in my experience, any professional teacher would be very willing to speak to a parent about their child, and that is what the OP needs to do.

Yes, but she needs to speak to her in a constructive fashion and not let on that she worries that being made to consider others would stifle her dd's personality.

Of course some posters may have jumped to conclusions about the OP (others may have remembered her from previous posts).

How do I know carpet time wasn't an hour long? Just going by experience of what carpet time usually is. But I am willing to admit that this could be a highly unusual school with marathon carpet times.

Well glad you agree that she should speak to the teacher cory, but most posters said she would be thought of as a PITA if she did. I was just trying to add some balance to the "discussion".

It isnt just the length of carpet time that is relevant. As a supply teacher I have seen many examples where small children are expected to sit for far too long.

A very typical example-

Children come into school sit down and have registers and maybe a chat/show and tell/news,

Children then go straight to assembly and sit down

Children come back into classroom and sit down whilst teacher tells them what they are doing that morning.

This all adds up to a long time for a young child. Throw in a carpet time before play and the poor little things have been sat on their backsides nearly all morning.

Who knows if this was the routine of the OPs DD?? We dont because everyone waded in with very negative comments. This isnt even AIBU for goodness sake.

QLB: I may be misremembering my own primary days, but in infants (equivalent of R/Y1) I seem to remember sitting at desk and chair for most of the day (delights of handwriting books, Janet and John and red, then green maths books).

I know the curriculum has changed, does that mean children have? I do remember creative play too, but only on certain afternoons.

snowmash has a point: it is often said that children start school so much younger these days, and yes of course they do, but the OPs dd is in Yr 1, so presumably at least 5 years old. Big difference imo between a 5yo and a 4yo.

snowmash, it was the same for us! Sat down all morning at a desk (at 5 years old) and being physically punished and humiliated in front of the whole class, should we chat or disturb. Now that WAS traumatic!!! ;o)

Yes, infant children did used to sit at desks all morning-during the first part of the last century! Surely you're not that old snowmash.

As I've have already said I was just shocked at the way the OPs question was initially answered and felt the need to redress the balance.

I'm not that old but I remember having to sit all morning and do workbooks, listen to stories, sing songs etc. The afternoons were free time.

The OP was asked questions QLB but I know she didn't answer mine and I'm sure I wasn't the only one she ignored!

QuickLookBusy I agree there needs to be balance in response...

Equally my first school in the early eighties did have desks in infants (complete with places to put ink wells), janet and john books where the cover was peeling (I remember whole shelves full of the slim navy? covered small books), and pretend half-pennies in the play corner. The desks were arranged in 4s/6s most of the time though. Out of the three teachers in the school, two had over 35 years service, and one had a mere 20-25.

I do think the National Curriculum did a lot of good in -forcing- helping schools to update their materials and methods (and presumably making money available for small schools to do so). It was a very different school when my younger sibs went through (due to retirement, new furniture and books).

I was 'good' , but I remember standing in the corner with my nose pressed to the wall

emy72 I remember standing in front of the class in infants with my book on my head because I'd interrupted the teacher marking another pupil's work...that did make me :( , but I don't think I did it again.

Yes it makes me cringe to think about it snowmash! I remember some children being made to wear a "donkey hat" and kneel behind the blackboard and also smacking/the cane being in frequent use. But I was in a different country...

Now that is awful but it does put it all into perspective, slightly....

Blimey I bet the OP regrets posting in the first place. I agree with Greensleeves, some of the posts to the op are just plain nasty snyde digs at both her and her daughter.
It IS hard when your child gets told off in school, especially when they are only in yr1 when the ARE still pretty small.

It isn't THAT outrageous to feel upset about it, and to want to stick up for your kid, usually what happens is after a couple of days you realise that actually the teacher was right and you overreacted. So advice might be yes, it's dissappointing when they get told off but they do have to learn to listen and be quiet, don't have a word with the teacher, unless you want to discuss ways to help your child to learn to be quiet when needed. Why people couldnt just point this out, without all the mocking and bitchy comments? We ALL get a bit irrational about different things sometimes, and sometimes we make the mistake of posting on MN about it and then end up feeling ten times worse.

Just read through this thread as DS just started reception and is being 'punished' by being made to stay with an adult at lunchtime today as he keeps playing with older boys despite being told not to. I posted earlier for advice (I was a bit confused as to why he couldn't play with the older kids) but had no issue with the punishment. DS needs to learn to follow the rules/do as he is asked whether he likes it or not.

I have always backed the people who look after my children (working mum, kids in nursery from young age).

By Y1 I would expect DS to be able to sit still and listen for a short time. Reeption is the transition stage, but even then I would expect him to be able to sit and listen!

Does OP let he DD do what she wants, when she wants at home?

we all expect our kids to sit still and listen by yr1. Sometimes they don't.

I am torn. On one hand I do feel it's a misnomer to compare kids now to kids when I was small (as expectations are so different, and punishment at school was more often followed by a clout at home, so kids didn't tend to share it).

I think geraldinetheluckygoat's post leads in to the OP, in terms of how does one then react...and there seem to be lots of threads about that.

I think it just boils down to the fact that you can't have 30 'free spirits' in a classroom and it isn't fair on the rest if one DC is given that position. When a 5 yr old wants to say something they want the rest to listen-it is give and take. It is fairly pointless having everyone talking and no one listening. It is a hard lesson that others have rights.
As regards the letter I mentioned earlier I think it only fair that if a teacher receives a letter that is patronising in the extreme, and designed to be intimidating, then the teacher is at liberty to show it to others. They will pick holes in it-in the same way they did about the patronising Shakespeare comment on here. I have always wanted to work with my DCs teachers on an equal basis, I haven't wanted them to cringe when they see me coming and try and avoid me! Big issues will come up-fight those battles and leave well alone when it is only missing 2 minutes of playtime.

Well said Geraldine!!

makeminea-if you do come back [brave girl] I would say ignore all the negative, sarcastic comments.

If you are really worried about your DD DO speak to the teacher, in a calm, informal way, and just find out what is happening at carpet time to make her dislike it so much.

If she is only being asked to sit for a few mins and listen, then she should learn to do that. However, there might be more to it, so do try to find out.

Good Luck

I think that is a really sensible post QuickLookBusy-all it takes is an informal chat with the teacher to find ways to help the DD together. Keep it calm, remain friendly, remember that the teacher has 30 DCs who are all have needs too-and miss out most of the other stuff on here!