Steiner Schools?

[Moomalicious]

Does anyone have any experience with Steiner Waldorf kindergartens? My son is hating his preschool and I think this might be a better option for him but I'm an Atheist and am worried that may prejudice us.

donot- will you post on here when you've found out? Would love to hear that.
There's some stuff on there about the "sanitised " version of Steiner isn't there?
Then there's the argument that he "was speaking as a man of his times " of course- what with the nazis and all- we obviously REALLY understand that.
Another good site is
www.waldorf-problems.com
I don't know why my copying/pasting won't let you directly link- anyone Know what I'm doing wrong?
Our kids are dark- I've only just twigged- well- since we left- that quite a few things related to their non-aryan appearance I think.
Things keep coming back to me.
There don't seem to be the usual Steiner supporters coming on this thread- they've probably had enough!

The Steiner thing on him not really being racist is interesting- because the anthros say he was just talking about the epochs- with their various ages and RACES. The fact that the darker people represent the earlier epochs- in their eyes - exonerates any racist doctrine. The earlier epochs are more primitive, therefore those people are. And the development of the human being follows that of the human race- the blond, blue eyed Aryans being the pinnicle of develpment- naturally. And they really don't think this is a racist point of view. Bollocks to them

Oh yes- the Steiner supporters - on here actually- but elsewhere- always say " Well - I know an Asian family at our school"
"There are two mixed race kids in a Steiner school I know"
Oh- so that's ok- what a relief.- As if that means they can't be racist then! If the nice Steiner people allow Asian kids to be at the bottom of the epoch pile.... God- that really p's me off- I can't even be bothered to reply to it.

Hi Northern - oh shucks that's a lovely thing to say. I miss your very intelligent articulate posts. I just mock the buggers!
Anthroposophy? Anthropollyophsy my third eye!

Donotdoit - good to hear you speak german, that could be really helpful. Yes those dolls are a little eerie, a child can project the expression onto it, but one could say you might aswell hold a piece of wool and pretend its a doll, oh whoops they already do that

steiner dolls one of them costs £119.90.

so who was a maker? I even struggled with the welly gnome holders. I developed quite a bad myriad habit, my steiner fever peaked with the 'bark blocks'in a string bag

Northern re the links thing, don't know what type of computer you have but with a mac:

I go the website I want to link to then click and highlight the website address in the address bar

Then I go to 'edit' and scroll down to 'copy'

Then I go back to the mumsnet thread and put [[ in the message box

Then go up to 'edit' and scroll down to 'paste'

Then leave a space to write the link

Then with no space afterwards put ]]

That all I know! It took me ages to figure it out but when I did I now link like there is no tomorrow!

yes well talking about the epochs, there was a time when men thought that women were second class citizens and they kept slaves and didn't therefore allow women, slaves, or other races among them to vote, as they were all seen as not having the same level of civilsation or logic as men - so does that mean that one should let them off for being men of their epoch ?

it all sounds like back-peddling and hushing stuff, sanitaising writings eminating from a man who lived with fairies and gnomes !

what were his thoughts on children that showed say homosexual tendencies, did he say they had the wrong karma or weren't re-incarnated correctly or what, does anyone know ?

did they make dolls for them to soothe their tormented souls as they were influenced by Ahriman ?

i know a few zoroastrians actually, indians and persians. they won't be impressed that steiner used zoroastrian concepts in his mish mash of home-made soup philosophy !

Thanks barking- woof -

Busy tonight- so can't go on tonight- will come in tomorrow!

Yes- strangley enough- I know Two zoratrians- one is really into Steiner too. Had acard at Xmas- and don't quite know how to approach it- he teaches a one....

Barking - they've cleverly thrown in a token brown-skinned Jemima baby to throw us off the racist scent...

I have a friend with mixed race children
( I know they're 'dual heritage' before you shout me down, but I just can't be doing with that term. It's like calling foster children 'looked after children' - it winds me up, sorry). Anyway her son, in kindergarten, wondered why all the dolls and puppets were fair. His mother approached the teacher and asked whether there could be more characters of colour in the stories/dolls/puppets etc. She was told that 'You can't change the Grimms tales and, anyway, we're in Europe'....The mother was astounded and the teacher, after a couple of days, realised what she'd said and probably worried for her position, apologised and said 'I don't know why I said that'. But, it speaks volumes. This particular child had all sorts of problems at the school and eventually left, but that's another story....

hi janni - that is fascinating. could you please elaborate on the issues this little boy had ?

we reached a stage where the parents refused to say hello to us even if we said hello first and my son was pretty much shunned by the other chldren. i didn't pick up on the rascism because i am generally not a paranoid individual and give people the benefit of the doubt as i believe that most humans are not that nasty.

now i realise i was just plain naive with this lot and got conned by the fluffy, organic fruitcake-ness of it all.

did this boy and his family also get ignored by the other children and parents ? was it a gradual process or an immediatley obvious one ?

the last straw came when my son was quite badly injured by one of the other children and no one gave us an apology or a monkey's arse explanation. then i realised i was dealing with a load of racist bigots.

Donotdoit- I promise I will, but not tonight - have to go now x

Janni- we had stuff where we were- actual personal stuff related to my kids, dark skin etc- (but I don't want to tell the story here as it is very specific).
I doubt the woman feared for her position- I imagine her main fear would be that the Steiner aryan, blond supremecy theories would be outed. There's some interesting things abpout race on the plans web site. Many of the books used in teacher training still have dodgy things in them.
donot- would it be too give away to say which part of the country you're in? London? South?

Thanks Barking!ttp://waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/Racism_general.html

hi northern - i don't know how i got caught up with it all really. i think it was because we used to go to the toddler group which ds seemed to enjoy although even then i noticed several of the mothers made no attempt whatsoever to even make eye contact with us, let alone come up and talk to us.

ds and i are both very bubbly and chatty, we have lots of friends outside of steiner. i think i just talked myself into this school. funnily enough dh was always very sceptical, thought they sounded like a bunch of loons he had even spoken to an italian women last year who had warned him, she was doing a phd in education and clearly knew what she was talking about. she didn't think it was right, not even their methods of painting or playing, let alone the covert racsim. i chose to ignore her comments, to my own peril.

as for where we are, i can't say more than we are within 2 hours drive from london. sorry, can't say more hence the name change here too, i am worried they may have some sort of mafia and they lurk on MN trying to identify us anti-steiner sorts (gosh i read too many mafia books !)

i will take some sort of action though. i have already spoken to a few people to discuss ways of making it known that i do not wish these people to become mainstream within UK education. they can remain some sort of faith school on some sort of lunatic fringe that is fine , i don't see why those of us who have first hand experience of their system should pay good tax money to prop up their weird world view.

Donotdoit - the little boy in question was one who needed very calm, firm boundaries and if he didn't get them, which he didn't, would run wild. I know him extremely well, he plays every week with my son, he 's slept at our house many times and as long as you're clear and straightforward with him he's lovely. The Steiner school never seemed to address anything CLEARLY. There was always some spiritual explanation for any problems exhibited by the children and, sadly, this boy's mum who has problems of her own (including spells in psychiatric hospitals), bought into the system hook, line and sinker. When, eventually after more messing about than is probably legal, they asked him to leave.

He's now at a small, orderly, church school and is really thriving. His teacher and the headmistress are black which is fantastic for him.

thanks janni. i am glad the little boy is happier where he is now and well looked after.

my ds too. we now go to a state run pre-school that has at least 10 - 15 different nationalities at any one time, many of the children are bilingual, some trilingual.

the little boy sounds like mine. my son is super super intelligent, but needs encouragement with set boundaries due to his energy level. he is also incredibly gentle with other children, esp. younger children, so when he was injured by one of the steiner children and i only got some pathetic explanation verging on yet another cover up, i decided to leave.

only yesterday at his new school they were telling how impressed they are with his english and the fact that he knows all his shapes and colours in two languages !

the lunatic steiners were telling me they don't encourage children to read before the age of 7. well, what the f* do you do where you have a child like mine who has shown a keen interest in written script since he turned 3 ?

do you deliberatley force him not to read ?

well, i have never ever formally taught or encouaged anything with ds, he is so sharp he picks up things from books and tv.
he points and says "mummy what does that say" whenever we look at books, he recognises the entire alphabet and numbers up to 10 and can read his own name and surname.

i can't say anything really apart from the fact that the steiner system is so DOGMATIC that in many many children it is probably stifling their inherent abilities and imagination. they say that they allow free play and free imagination, but it is just a load of bollocks PR if you ask me. all they were doing with my son was channeling him into set sorts of behaviour and activity.

you can see why in an educational system so dogmatic, any one or anything that deviates, would be labelled as "abnormal" and having karma or reincarnation problems.

if you ask me the steiners need a good kick up the jacksy so that they can shift geer into the 21st century where there is technology and where children are allowed to play with purple plastic and draw with black ink if they wish. that is the whole point about freedom, surely ?

donot- that just sounds so overtly racist- I can't believe it. Or how they think they can get away with it! It beggars belief.....
Are you really worried about being identified? I kind of am , because we still see a couple of people- but I have to say- right now, I sort of feel- bring it on! I feel so angry that they can go on doing these things, and really damaging kids etc...
And Janni- your story too...Holy shit- these people need outing! The boundary thing is a real problem in Steiner- the older they get- the more marked it is - the older kids just police themselves- - it's all seen as incarnation and karma- and the dangerous things- like climbing on roofs and setting fires- they're left- because their guardian angels are watching over them.
They do discourage reading too- academia in general is really frowned upon by anthros- it's too Arhimatic, and not spiritual enough- so basically- libraries aren't encouraged. The young children are seen to be still close to the spirit world they have come from, and books lead them away from that. They have to paint those wet nothing paintings to remind them of their spirit life- there aren't any lines in the spirit world... GOB...

northern - you and i both seem very angry with justification we were fooled by them and our children had to suffer as a result.

yes, i do bump into these people, several of whom live nearby, so sadly i can't avoid them unless we leave town, which we may be doing soon any way, for career reasons.

the problem is that all the legal stuff that has gone on in holland and germany only recently have not led to any of their schools being closed down. i would love to do a legal challenge of some sort, but if they do have a highly organised set up with masses of money according to CHASE and i am just small fish, i can't see it going anywhere.

i was sad to see that my favourite paper, the guardian, has been fooled too by the organic carrot eating, pale peach curtain image. it says alot about their very effective PR machine.

as for the discouraging book reading, may be it is a Fahrenheit 451 situation. anyone read the book or seen the film based on the book ?

books are dangerous because they are the source of ALL knowledge. if you wish to stay ignorant (believe in or see fairies and gnomes instead !!) don't read books

Northern - I just feel very daft at how trusting I was, because my son thrived in Steiner KG, having had a bad experience at the local primary. I really didn't understand that they were SO slow at the academics and he now has such a lot of catching up to do. It is crazy that a school thinks it's acceptable to not have a library...

I think the trust thing is very poignant- they certainly rely on one trusting them - from the promotional literature , to - in our case - interviews and discussions- recommended reading about Steiner education- none of which touched on any of the significant spiritual occult roots. The nearest they get is wishy washy stuff like "head, heart , hands, " or "willing, thinking, feeling". It's the thing that really riles me the most- that duplicity- because of course- if that's what they want for their lives- who's to stop them? The netting people in kindy is apparently something they try hard to do- because it gets you early- and is so hard to transfer. It has all the signs of a cult really doesn't it?
We had a bad time at local primary too-so thought what Steiner school WASN,T was for us- if that makes sense. I found a leaflet the other day- circulated to local people- "There's a school near here that doesn't have tests, that has two language teaching from 7yrs, the children have craft and art lessons, they all play in an orchestra, they grow vegetablees"...etc, etc- oh yes- and we help them reincarnate for the post Atlantean epoch- when man will communicate solely to the spirit world.

oh northern, you sound just like my cup of tea (a cup with no union jack on it...hee...hee...hee...)