Steiner Schools?

[Moomalicious]

Does anyone have any experience with Steiner Waldorf kindergartens? My son is hating his preschool and I think this might be a better option for him but I'm an Atheist and am worried that may prejudice us.

Or www.easeonline.org/ and www.chaseuk.info
if you want an english one- although the american one waldorfcritics is very pertinant and rings true with our steiner school experience.

That's great thanks. I'm a bit hesitant about poking my nose in but wouldn't forgive myself if she later regrets her decision. She needs to at least go into it with her eyes open. She's an actively religious person (buddhist) and I think much of the Steiner philosophy would grate with her.

If she's a buddhist don't let her be swayed by the reincarnation aspect of anthroposophy- it draws from hinduism, zorastarianism, christianity and occult so called spiritual science- the science bit meaning he believed things like angels and gnomes are real- and clairvoyance is a human scientific ability, -and cosmic and astral forces, that man was on earth since it began, the ayryan race origionated in atlantis.....

I think you're all way off track here. There are so many positive aspects to steiner education and philosophy and they do some incredibly good work. How can you think bio-dynamic farming is a money making scheme? My friend is a volunteer at a Camphill commumity and has lived there for 10 years, taking care of severely disabled people. It's a very positive nurturing environment. No one is pressed into thinking anything. I've asked her about it often enough and she can't tell me bloody anything about anthroposophy..

www.freedom-in-education.co.uk/Steiner.htm

rebelmum - Steiner schools might do great work with disabled people, their food might be great, and the staff might all be excellent human beings.

I don't care one bit about any of this. What I care about is that they have a spiritual belief system that they hid from me, a lifelong atheist/agnostic who fully intends to shield her children from any religion, let alone one that is so wacky they believe in rhythmic dances to talk to the spiritual world and some devil talking to them out of tv & radios. Ffs.

That they don't "force" anyone to believe in their religion is irrelevant. Three year olds don't have to be forced to believe what their teacher/parent/athority figure tells them.

I'd love to have had a chat about their funny little 'philosophy' in the open days I attended, the conference I watched about the 'Waldorf education', and the meetings I had with the teachers. But, no, they don't take on the adults, do they? You are supposed to trust your child in their care without knowing anything about their 'philosophy'. Brilliant.

It is criminal, that's what it is. If a covert Muslim organisation took your children in without telling you about their beliefs, you would all be up in arms, regardless of how good they are with disabled people.

What are the outgoings? That's not a reflection of wealth at all? They are not meant to teach any specific beliefs in schools but they are spiritual. I don't think that there is anything wrong with what they do at all and if it's not your cup of tea then that's fine but trying to make out that they are some weird sect like the moonies is way off course.

Disabled children are cared for in a wonderful environment, people with disabilities have jobs and roles, and they help them develop creative skills, and use music and dance. My friend has a degree in curative education and it is extremely positive in my view. They often take children that no one else will, are audited and work in conjunction with social services. I don't know what your problem is to be honest it's all very wholesome in my view. If you have issues with spirituality then you should be just as condemning of christianity, budhism, islam etc. The websites you refer to look like they have been put together by right wing neo conservatives and born again christians. For more worrying in my view than steiner. It's dated in my view and theosophy is no longer topical. I don't think they make people believe in gnomes ..

I would say that anyone who says that TV isn't a good thing for children is perfectly sane. It might not be the devil but subjecting your children to advertising campaigns by extremely manipulative marketers is pretty close. TV shouldn't be your information point and much of what is broadcast is brainwashing and propaganda. It's visual valium. I think kids would be better off playing creatively. Likewise movement through music and rythym is better than sat watching TV eating burgers. But then I think I have quite a radical and dangerous view ..

which should be criminalised ..

Do you honestly not see the problem here, or are you playing dumb?

The problem here is that they are deceiving parents by not mentioning the beliefs that guide their approach to aducation. I would have exactly the same problem if a Catholic, Christian, or Buddhist group kept their religious affinity secret and asked me, a complete nonbeliever, to put my child in their care.

By the way, "TV is not good for children" is very different from "Don't watch TV because a devil called 'Ahriman' speaks to you through it". First is common sense, the second is lunacy.

"Music and dance are great for children" is also common sense, while "Children communicate with the spiritual world through specific motions" is lunacy.

Same is true for banning the color black. And don't even get me started on reincarnation.

"if it's not your cup of tea then that's fine"

How can a prospective Steiner parent find out if its her 'cup of tea' if she doesn't know she is putting her child's name for a tea party?

Parents should be able to make an informed choice, if what I am trying to say. Yet we can't, because they don't talk about their 'cup of tea' at all.

I think you're quite wrong they don't base the education on gnomes they base it on teaching in line with how a child naturally develops with lots of creativity, small class sizes and individual attention and teaching consistently. They don't teach children to believe in gnomes. Anyway it's just as bonkers as believing in angels and the immaculate conception. And your not making such a fuss about that.

They don't talk about it perhaps because it's not relevant and it's not what they teach. Steiner did many things and it's acknowledged that his beliefs are outdated and no longer topical. They don't as far as I am aware teach anthroposophy in the schools I have visited. They teach myths and legends and beleive in story telling and creative play. Lots of our traditions originated from unusual ideas, christmas is based on a pagan ritual for example. Easter is about the son of God dying and going to heaven and we all have a national holiday. Does that strike you as a little odd too? Your cool with angels and the devil seemingly but have a bit of a problem with gnomes.

my dd is mary in the nativity play and at nursery and it's not a religious school and I wasn't told when I started her there that the based their teaching on wacky religious concepts. she's representing immaculate conception and she's only 3. I might complain ..

If you want to make an informed choice why don't you go and read up on it rather than searching right wing neo conservative born again Christian ramblings on the web. There are plenty of books on the subject.

Hi all,
somebody sent an email to us about mumsnet and that our website www.chaseuk.info/
has been mentioned here in the mumsnet forums...so I've signed up and hope to be able to help answer questions and add to discussions etc.

Our website is published by CHASE - Challenging Anthropsophy & Steiner Education and the info on the website will explain what we're about etc.

OK then, I'll have a read through this and the other threads to see what's been a happening and chip in where it might be helpful.

rebelmum, what your friend says or doesn't say about Camphill has no bearing on this.

All Camphills are rooted in Anthropsophy as you can easily find by digging into their own promotional materials. The tinyurl below for example

tinyurl.com/23yl7j

takes you to Camphill Scotland website...it took about three minutes for me to Google on Camphill and find it. Mind you I do know roughly what to look out for. Midway down the web page in section 5 there it says

"each Camphill community expects recognition of anthroposophy and the insights of Rudolf Steiner and Karl König as fundamental to its existence, life and creativity."

And when they say 'each Camphill community' they do mean each Camphill community, not just those in Scotland.

Camphill is one distinct application of Anthroposophy. As this quote from the England & Wales Camphill website says in describing learning opportunities with Camphills:

"Some of the opportunities that are on offer within Camphill communities and in the wider anthroposophical network are outlined in the subsections to this page."

Again this only took a minute or two to find, the quote comes from
www.camphill.org.uk/about/learning-in-camphill/

So, according to informational materials put out by Camphills themselves it is stated that they expect recognition of Anthropsophy from the people working there and that they perceive Camphills to be a part of the wider Anthroposophical network.

Why your friend doesn't have anything to say about Anthropsophy after volunteeering for 10 years at a Camphill is something we can only guess at. Camphill England & Wales on the same website given above says this about volunteers:

"ALL GUEST VOLUNTEERS and Co-workers new to a community are required by our statutory welfare arrangements to complete a programme of Induction training. This will cover topics such as child or adult protection, health & safety requirements, welfare, educational needs and risk assessment and support planning, professional boundaries, equal opportunity, record keeping, concerns and complaints etc.

All communities offer a Foundation programme, often embedding the Induction training, which will provide a general introduction to the community's underlying philosophy and image of the human being (anthroposophy). The programme will include elements of human development and psychology, a survey of conditions such as autistic spectrum disorder, epilepsy, Down's syndrome etc. Artistic activity sessions including producing plays for festivals will often be part of a Foundation programme."

So maybe your volunteer friend has only ever been on the Induction training. even then all Camphills are so steeped in Anthropsophy that it would be hard to imagine anybody volunteering for such a length of time would not know anything at all about it.

CHASE did have URLs pointing to educational materials to do with the Foundation programmes that Camphills offer but the websites have been updated since we last collected the info..I'll have to dig around for some replacements and copy them this time. They were, anyway, based on Steiner/Anthropsophical belief - reincarnation, souls, spirits etc. I'll dig around again and see what I come up with re this.

rebel- have you read the previous posts on this thread? I have had three children for a total of 9 years at a Steiner School on a Camphill community- I think I have alot of experience of it.
Your friend who works at Camphill is no doubt one of the people who is going through the system with no clue about the underlying core of anthroposophy- that's fine if that's ok with him/her.
Camphill do do alot of good work- no-one is denying this- your friend's degree in curative education is another way of teaching anthroposophy.
I ditto verbatim what cotedazure says- THEY ARE NOT UPFRONT ABOUT ANTHROPOSOPHY- whatever else they do/teach.
I agree whole heartedly about any religion in schools- but at least evangelical Christians aren't secretive and evasive.

rebel- the teaching isn't based on" how a child naturally develops"- it's based on the child's reincarnation process- look back at the earlier threads.

rebel- do you think the bio dynamic Dr. Haushka and Weleda cosmetics creams etc might be interested in making money?

"If you want to make an informed choice why don't you go and read up on it"

So it is not the responsibility of the school to tell parents what their philosophy is all about? We are supposed to assume they are hiding something and go & look them up?

When they told me "Children start the day by reading poems", it was my fault that I didn't immediately verify on the internet and find out that it wasn't in fact a poem appreciation hour but a specific prayer about "the spirit that lives within me" and "spirit of God"?

chaseuk - It is good to have you here. Thanks for coming by.

A note on the money-making issue: Our local Waldorf Steiner school claims on its website that it is a "non-profit organisation" where "all school fees are used to pay for teachers, premises and supplies".

Given that they demand EUR 10,000 (which is about 7,250 pounds) for the first year, that they have only two teachers and two support staff with no qualifications, that their website is a dingy free-hosting thing and the only phone number you have for their 'administrator' is a cell phone, I am hard-pressed to understand the 'costs'.

How much do their pine cones and fur balls cost exactly?

I can't see anything inherently evil about the induction training it all looks pretty above board to me. 'Recognising' anthroposphy does not necessarily mean making people beieve in gnomes. I'm not denying that Steiner Education does not recognise it's origins and anthroposophy but I have no idea why you have such a problem with it. They have a wholistic approach to education and create an environment in which many children and adults flourish. The history is that Steiner cared for disabled people before it was common place in our society which is extremely positive. It's traditions go back many years.