Steiner Schools?

[Moomalicious]

Does anyone have any experience with Steiner Waldorf kindergartens? My son is hating his preschool and I think this might be a better option for him but I'm an Atheist and am worried that may prejudice us.

It's a different approach but I can't see anything wrong with it at all I really don't know what all the fuss is about. It all sounds positive to me. Anthroposophy may be the origins of the ideas that have created the teaching method but as far as I am aware Camphill's philosophy is not to teach any belief in particular. Perhaps I am wrong and they are brainwashing innocent children to believe in gnomes and not to watch TV.

Rebel- I like the freedom in education site- just looked at it- I think it's great- but it's not a Steiner education one- it mentions anthroposophy- but not the main and salient points- it says something about anthroposophy not being relevant to today- er- yeah......

I have read some of books published by Camphill and used some ideas in how I bring up my child, they are spiritual aspects and ideas about how children develop and how they learn. The book I read was enlightening and I just dismissed certain aspects as a little high minded but I was overall happy with the approach. There was certainly nothing shocking in the content.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being spiritual, and the aims of Steiner are so positive and the results have brought happiness and a positive life to many disabled people they may never otherwise had, and they continue to do so. I don't think there should be any issues with it at all.

-"dismissed some aspects as a little high minded"- have you read his views on race- like blonde hair bestowing intelligence?- or the superiorority of the ayryan race?
Or why people with learning dificulties are like they are? Or why dyslexia, add etc is to do with a re incarnation problem?- as is left handedness.
There's alot to read- but you'd have to be very selective indeed not to pick up on what you call high minded- I would call scarily bonkers.

I think the main rub of argument is being missed by you- no one says there's anthing wrong with being spiritual- it goes alot further than that- it's the NOT TELLING- I don't think I can carry on with this rebel- you keep missing the point, and haven't got a grasp of the bigger issues

"Anthroposophy beleivers don't teach children to read until the children's milk teeth come in- they don't think they're spiritually ready until then- their milk teeth are formed by the mother's spiritual forces- and their own teeth come from the childs own forces built up from the spiritual world. Age seven is a spiritual turning point for the child apparently- marked by this teeth thing"

Oh good grief!! Is noone going to comment on this total bollocks??! I'm not getting at NR39 who posted it.. I am just gobsmacked at the very concept of anyone subscribing to it! Are parents just supposed to swallow such crap? And DO they????! WHY??!

Because when you show an interest in Steiner - they only pedal the child centred, knitting, art etc- hey read the thread from the beginning Shiny- you think that's bollocks you'll love the rest... go on - please- there are gnomes, cosmic forces, blonde hair making you more intelligent and lots lots more.

Well I read from the beginning up to the point about the teeth.. choked on my cup of tea.. and had to comment!! It's gets worse??! Gnomes.. blonde hair??! Are they nazis per chance???! Will read... [braces self]

CoteDAzur, thanks for the welcome. You mention 'morning verse' in an earlier post...one example from a UK school is:

"The sun with loving light
Makes bright for me each day
The soul with spirit power
Gives strength unto my limbs
In sunlight shining clear
I meditate oh God
That strength and grace and skill
For learning and for work
In me may grow and live"

Now, if that isn't a religious 'verse' or form of prayer I don't know what is.

The 'morning verse' in English seems shorter and much milder to me than the French one used around where we live:

Je regarde le monde
Ou brille le soleil
Scintille les étoiles
Reposent les pierres
Les plantes vivent et y croissent
Les animaux sensibles y vivent
Et l'homme doué d'ame
Acueille en lui l'esprit
Je regarde l'âme
Qui vit dedans mon être
L'esprit de dieu rayonne
Dans le soleil et l'âme
Dans les monde au dehors
Et dans l'âme au dedans
Vers toi esprit de dieu
Je me tourne et demande
Que la force et la grace
D'apprendre et travailler
Grandissent dans mon être

Especially suspect is "I look at the soul / who lives inside my being/body" (lines 9 & 10). Not even "my soul" (mon ame), but "the soul who lives inside my body" (l'ame qui vit dedans mon etre). Anybody really want to argue these kids are not being taught about reincarnation at all?

It goes on to say "The spirit of God radiates / from the sun and the soul / in the worlds outside / and the soul inside / towards you, spirit of God, I turn and ask / that the force and grace / to learn and work / grow in my being"

I cannot begin to put into words how it boils my blood to think that my daughter, who will be three next year, would be made to say this brain-numbing, pseudo-religious, hippy prayer every morning.

P.S.: I'm not a native speaker of French. If anybody would like to correct this translation, please feel free to do so.

"I don't think there's anything wrong with being spiritual"

You are entitled to that opinion. You also have the right to raise any child of yours as a "spiritual" person, whatever that means for you.

Answer this please: Do I, as a lifelong atheist, have the right to raise my child without any spiritual/religious influences, at least until she starts school at 6 years of age?

Seems to be some confusion about crossovers between Anthroposophy, Scientology and Landmark Forum. Having researched the UK Anthroposophy movement in-depth, CHASE has found no formal structural links to date between them. Anthropsophical directors/trustees don't sit on Scientology organisations and vice versa, they don't donate to each other, their various organisations don't have any constitutional or other arranged ties between the three (Anthros/Scientology/Landmarkers) types of organisation.

Having said that we have had a few emails recently to suggest that Landmark Forum in particular is beginning to make an impact here in UK on the Anthropsophical community. Scientology, no.

If anybody has any reliable information about overlaps between Anthros/Landmark or Anthros/scientology we at CHASE would be pleased to here of them ([email protected] is the email if you would like to contact us in confidence) and if you want to contact me individually for any reason then [email protected] will reach me.

Scientology is a distinct belief system isn't it and I doubt very much that a committed Anthroposophist would be able to have a foot in both camps. Landmark Forum though, maybe there's a money-making angle to this...it costs dosh to do the Landmark thing and it's certainly gotten a hard intensive sales drive...maybe there's a form of pyramid selling in this where people having gone through Landmark get perks for drawing in new punters?

rebel I was only establishing that Camphills are rooted in Anthroposophy and consider themselves part of a wider Anthropsophical network. I wasn't saying much more than that really and I wasn't claiming Anthropsophy to be evil or that there is some sort of brain washing going on.

However,re brainwashing, somebody in this thread claimed that going to a Steiner school doesn't turn people into Anthroposophists. Well, according to an international survey of teachers at hundreds of Steiner schools

"70% agreed that Steiner education subtly influenced or predisposed students to be open to the spiritual world and anthroposophy"

The research method used in the study has flaws (what research doesn't?) but hey ho, CHASE isn't going going to quibble with Steiner teachers on this particular finding.

The study if you need it is:
Ogletree, E. J. (1998) International Survey of the Status of Waldorf Schools (source:
ERIC {Educational Resources Information Center}, University of Illinois, US).

Re Anthroposophy being evil, I don't have anything to say on that personally and I don't recollect CHASE having anything to say on it either.

I agree chase- everyone's entitled to their own beliefs and ideas. I don't think anyone's said anthroposophists were evil.
I do think they lay themselves open to suspicion tho' by not being naturally upfront about themselves when people are interested in the schools for instance.
As coteDazure said- they seem to think it's fine for everyone to do the research and find out by default; of course some people never do and are blissfully unaware of any other agenda than a holistic natural schooling- ( which incidently i don't think it is)

"open to the spiritual world"

Is that a politically correct way of saying "kids whose brains are softened up to accept as true things that there is no proof for"?

northernrefugee, actually the Steiner schools and other Anthroposophical organisations are more open about their roots in Anthroposophy these days than they used to be, at least on their website info materials anyway. Some fall far short of this but generally they do at least mention it somewhere on their websites.

What they don't do is go into the Anthropsophical beliefs in anything but a shorthand way. For example the role of the teacher in an Anthroposophical school is seen as a sacred task. Teachers are on a mission, nurturing incarnating souls and helping them develop 'properly'. The child coming into contact with the Steiner teacher is seen as an outcome of reincarnation and karma, it has nothing to do with what parents decide. The model of child development, 'proper development', used by Steiner schools is merely the mechanics that Steiner describes in presenting and explaining his own, racist, spiritual evolutionary theory...the theory that has animals descending from humans, humans developing on Atlantis etc. The model of child development is Steiner's evolutionary theory writ small. None of this is adequately explained to prospective school parents.

OK, Steiner's beliefs are intricate and difficult to explain in one sitting. However, some of the central beliefs that 'inspire' Anthropsophists and their various activities are so sensitive that the onus should be on them to explain and forewarn people of what they are getting into when they first make contact with any Anthropsophical application. Dumbing the beliefs down or dressing them up in oversized clothes labelled 'philosophy' only disguises what their beliefs are rather than informs people about those beliefs.

Hi Folks,

I'm one of the international moderators of the "Waldorf Anthroposophy Steiner Survivors Only" (WASSO)group. The fact that our busy & confidential support group even exists should mean something with regards to problems in the Anthro/Waldorf/Steiner movement. I don't have much to add to many of the insightful questions and posts here except to clarify something Rebelmum1 wrote:

"The websites you refer to look like they have been put together by right wing neo conservatives and born again christians."

I've heard this angle before and it is simply incorrect and WAY off base. If it were not so misleading it would be laughable. What has been written here about Waldorf & Anthroposophy, however, is correct - a spiritual/religious movement with disingenuous public relations. A bit of research will demonstrate this fact. But to state or infer that individuals or organizations critical of Waldorf/Anthroposophy are "right wing neo conservatives," etc. is simply incorrect. I often wonder why people choose to take that approach (bending reality into a pretzel) when dealing with critique?

Some aspects of Waldorf education, imo, are wonderful but hiding a religious/occult based education behind silk and pretty paintings is simply wrong. Many, many parents are seeking an education for their children other than that which is readily available in most conventional schools. Waldorf uses that angle to entice families to join "the Waldorf Community." Many parents are interested because of they do not want heavy academics, computers, pop machines, etc. for their young children. If Anthroposophy is ever mentioned to parents it is usually described as "the wisdom of Man" (literal translation)although that's tantamount to saying that boxing is actually a form of ballet. Anthroposophy is ALL about reincarnation, soul work and occultism as outlined in many books and lectures by founder Rudolf Steiner (often described by Waldorf as a "philosopher.")Trained teachers must read these books as part of their training.
The vast majority of parents, however, do not enrol their children in Waldorf/Steiner schools for what it is (Anthroposophy). They choose these schools for what they are not. And this often results in confusion, anger and frustration for many families. It need not be this way and unfortunately, those who suffer most are the children.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

-Steve Walden

Hi Steve- thanks for that- what you've written embraces exactly what happened to us- and you're right- my kids are just recovering- having heaved a large breath of releif when we left- I saw a veil lift from them.
It's risable for anyone questioning anthroposophy to be called right wing or evangelical- the mere mention of things like "education towards freedom" ( a Steiner quote) and the sort of education supposedly on offer- obviously attracts the very opposite of right wing neo conservatives.
I've found many people there are either atheists like us- or new age types- these are the people it attracts with its very selling points.

Chase- I was looking at the literature and school prospectus we were given when we showed an interest in the school- the word anthroposophy doesn't crop up once.
When I've asked about reincarnation- there has been a sing song explanation in a throw away manner- saying "all this really means is that the children have a past and a future"- sometimes accompanied by a worried expression-( or sympathetic one )- because I obviously wasn't on the path to enlightenment.

Do you think anyone from an anthroposophical organisation will come on here to put their side? It would be very interesting. I am genuinely interested in it and what they see as the big picture.

"Upon the forehead and in the whole physiognomy it will be written whether the person is good or evil. He will show in his face what is contained in his inmost soul. What a man has developed within himself, whether he has exercised good or evil impulses, will be written on his forehead. After the great War of All against All there will be two kinds of human beings. Those who had previously tried to follow the call to the spiritual life, who cultivated the spiritualizing and ennobling of their inner spiritual life, will show this inward life on their faces and express it in their gestures and the movements of their hands. And those who have turned away from the spiritual life, represented by the community of Laodicea, who were lukewarm, neither warm nor cold, will pass into the following epoch as those who retard human evolution, who preserve the backward forces of evolution which have been left behind. They will show the evil passions, impulses and instincts hostile to the spiritual in an ugly, unintelligent, evil-looking countenance. In their gestures and hand-movements, in everything they do, they will present an outer image of the ugliness in their soul. Just as humanity has separated into races and communities, in the future it will divide into two great streams, the good and the evil. And what is in their souls will be outwardly manifest, they will no longer be able to hide it." [Steiner: The Apocalypse of S:t John]
This is why anthroposophy is scary imo- Steiner education is meant to be preparing the children's inner spiritual life

"Occult training leads a man to freedom. He becomes the master of various beings who continually go in and out of his bodies by becoming their companion. These are phantoms in the physical body, ghosts in the etheric body, demons in the astral body and spirits in the ego. To learn to rule them a man must form a firm framework in the etheric body, just as there?s a skeleton in the physical body. This framework for the etheric body is a pentagram with thinking in the head point, feeling in the arms and willing in the legs. One must also form a framework for the astral body, namely a hexagram with the head and heart points, two ears and two arms.? [Steiner: Esoteric Lesson. lect. 6th Nov. 1906. From the Contents of Esoteric Classes.]

Thought this was quite an interesting take on the idea of freedom.

movement.?

?One of the most important facts about the background of the Waldorf School is that we were in a position to make the anthroposophical movement a relatively large one.?

?You people who work at the Waldorf School must help to support the whole movement? the Waldorf School can put itself on a broad basis and thus be a pillar for the whole Antroposophical Movement.?

?We are striving to include in our instructional methods a way of dealing with individual souls that can originate in a living spiritual science.?

?We had to create our curricula and educational goals on the basis of a true understanding of the human being, which can only grow out of the fertile ground of anthroposophy. Then we would have a universally human school, not a school based on a particular philosophy or denomination?.?

?You need to make the children aware that they are receiving the objective truth, and if this occasionally appears anthroposophical, it is not anthroposophy that is at fault. Things are that way because anthroposophy has something to say about objective truth?Anthroposophy will be in the school when it is objectively justified, that is, when it is called for by the material itself.?

?We also need to speak about a prayer. I ask only one thing of you. You see, in such things everything depends upon the external appearances. Never call a verse a prayer, call it an opening verse before school. Avoid allowing anyone to hear you, as a faculty member, using the word ?prayer.??

(Rudolf Steiner)