Steiner Schools?

[Moomalicious]

Does anyone have any experience with Steiner Waldorf kindergartens? My son is hating his preschool and I think this might be a better option for him but I'm an Atheist and am worried that may prejudice us.

You use the square brackets instead of the rounded ones. Not very technical description, but

so [ with wink ]

Daisy- get your friends to look at all the mumsnet links on Steiner- it's a real eyeopener. Also look at www.chaseuk.info/- anthroposohy and their organisations are one of the wealthiest charities in England.
The Steiner parents are expected to give up endless time and money to funraise- they have to-it's part of the deal- and if your friends have any idea of the sorts of money flying around they may be a bit peeved.....

Thanks pooka I feel like a real mumsnetter now- and barking said hello to me too... sigh

Wow- it works

northernrefugee - I live in Monaco, which is a tiny country surrounded by France. Ever watched Monte-Carlo Grand Prix? Well, the whole country is slightly larger than the Grand Prix circuit. The Waldorf Steiner school I applied to is in France, but just above Monaco - minutes away from our place.

And now, after writing that post, I Googled, and guess what - a French parliamentary report dated June 1999 included "Anthroposophy, exercised through Waldorf Steiner schools" in its list of sects

And this is the 'morning verse'. A prayer, really:

Je regarde le monde
Ou brille le soleil
Scintille les étoiles
Reposent les pierres
Les plantes vivent et y croissent
Les animaux sensibles y vivent
Et l'homme doué d'ame
Acueille en lui l'esprit
Je regarde l'âme
Qui vit dedans mon être
L'esprit de dieu rayonne
Dans le soleil et l'âme
Dans les monde au dehors
Et dans l'âme au dedans
Vers toi esprit de dieu
Je me tourne et demande
Que la force et la grace
D'apprendre et travailler
Grandissent dans mon être

Too many mentions of 'soul', 'spirit', and even 'the spirit of God' for my taste.

"I look at the soul that lives within me" fgs. Not even "my soul" but "the soul that lives within me"

I don't think she would appreciate me telling her any of this as I doubt very much whether they will actually want to know about any criticisms of Steiner. The mum at any rate seems to have fallen for it all hook, line and sinker and says it's 'amazing'. She's always been into the Steiner toys, art etc and I know she has lots of friends whose children go, and I think it's partly an aspirational lifestyle thing iykwim. Before I'd seen this thread she showed me their curriculum and I did goggle a bit at things like Noah's Ark coming under history and gnomes being taught in science but she brushed over it .

You're right about the fundraising - she's really got heavily involved with that and they've only been going a month or two. I know they're getting a substantial bursary so I don't think she minds tbh. As I say, I suspect the dad doesn't know about any of the religious aspect for now. I just hope it doesn't come back to bite them on the bum.

I think the anthroposophical movement is actually quite powerful- they certainly have a lot of wealth- see the CHASE site I mentioned earlier- and have fingers in many pies- bio dynamic farming, weleda is an anthroposophical company, banks, camphill communities- none of them - of course - mention anthroposophy, or in a tiny small print if they do- saying things that attreact new age homeopathic type people- like holistic, or spiritual- none of the sinister occult clairvoyanty stuff.
I'm always staggered that the press don't pick up on it- there was an article in the guardian about a month ago all about gardening and rosy cheeked kids kind of stuff- I wrote two letters asking why they didn't mention anthroposophy and they weren't printed.
Their publicity machine is pretty well oiled.

I think I read somewhere that the Steiner school teachers have been advised by the top anthros not to mention it as they want to attract more people and that would obviously put them off.... mmmmm

The more you say about it, the more cultish they sound

Daisymoo- it's actually quite possible for people to go through years of Steiner education without a clue- in fact I think the Steiners quite like that 'cos they can get on with re-incarnating these children ready for when the world moves into it's next epoch- then all of us who have been stagnated by the forces of darkness through our computers and tv's - will be lead as automanons by the Steiner educated.

They are watched as a cult in a few countries I think.
Cote- these verses are really prayers- but Steiner called everything a spiritual science- he actually beleived alot of what they teach as real. They don't loke being called a religion but it's so obvious they are- see earlier post.

It would be like sending your kids to a school run by nuns, and the nuns hiding the fact they're catholics but teaching the catechism all the same. Naughty cult people.

And here I was, not even considering the Catholic school kindergarten (which is an excellent school, by all accounts) for dd, because I feel it is wrong to expose little kids to religion

This is a really interesting thread
I agree with the general gist of it
Though I just wanted to add a small correction to whoever said anthroposophy has links to scientology - as far as I know there may be similarities but certainly not links.

Camphill communities tend to be labelled as christian when actually afaik they are mostly chock full of anthroposophists and others who think anthroposophy is rather odd!

I have just found this psycotic gnome

I would love to order 10 to give out to the darling steiner neigbours but unfortunately they have no sense of humour.

You will hear very little laughter at a steiner school

Sect = cult in French.

I was trying to say "a French parliamentary report dated June 1999 included "Anthroposophy, exercised through Waldorf Steiner schools" in its list of CULTS".

Sorry, I sometimes use French words in English sentences and vice versa

Yurtgirl - When I was at the local steiner school, there was lots of parents into the Landmark Education/Forum - I was invited on 3 seperate occasions to attend seminars but refused as group therapy is my idea of hell.

I have been told and read there are links between landmark and scientology.

Oh I see - I personally have never heard of landmark

Either way I love many aspects of steiner education and some of the ideas are part of our family home - loads of wooden toys, an absence of batteries, an appreciation of nature etc.

But all the spiritual stuff is utterly odd and completely at odds with my own faith.

barking- i love the gnome- agree about the sense of humour.yurtgirl- I think the links with scientology are tenuous- I think Ron Hbbard was involved with the Ordo Tmpli Orientis- as was Steiner- and they both had a deep interesrt in the occult.

yurtgirl- I think a good many of the people I knew at Steiner felt like you- and the steiner schools of course rely on people wanting the kind of natural,creative, holistic, child centred education for their kids- it was what drew us in.

Barking- the landmark thing's interesting- what iis it exactly? Apart from being american? What's their agenda? Who funds them?

I shall never be able to untangle the tangle with all the landmark/scientology/anthroposophy/steiner stuff. there was a certain pressure to join - when you first land on planet steiner you want to belong - there was lots of long meaningful hugging going on from the people who were part of the landmark and i felt like a very cold fish for not wanting to attend - but as one landmark parent told me 'I had made myself feel like that!' which harks back to the idea of karma.

the other thing i have realised since leaving the school is that steiner doesn't have a monopoly on nature - he didn't invent it even if the school would like to believe he did! I still go for walks in the woods, make dens, bake bread, have wooden toys, beeswax candles etc. but the difference is it no longer costs us anything.

Yurtgirl- the Steiner school my kids went to was attatched to a Camphill Community- who are of course anthroposophical- they have a church and call it the Christuan Community- tho' the links to Christianity are quite slim- christ was actually a sun god to them- see earlier post- and how they can say they aren't religious is bonkers.

The learning difficulties adults who live there are meant to be undergoing what's called "curative education"- they beleive thehey are like they are because of some re-incarnation problem.

Also- they are funded by social services most of them- look at the chase site- Camphill are really wealthy charity. Apparently each Camphill has an annual income of something like £2.5 million!

Gosh barking your steiner experience really sounds awful- I really can't bear that attitude they have that they're right about everything and everyone else are sad unenlightened people who aren't on the shining path.
I think the people at ours gave up on us fairly soon- tho' my kids are quite dark and of course there's all the ayryan germans there- do you remember that Steiner quote about blonde hair bestowing intelligence? there were loads of blondes where we were- not of course mine.....