Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate 7

[mrsbigz]

May this thread continue to offer support and friendship to all who have found ourselves knocking at its door. May the door stay firmly wedged open - to be a comfort to those who have recently lost a little one, and welcoming back those who have longer memories of their loss. May the tea always be brewing and the millionaire shortbreads always freshly baked.

And may our all little ones find each other in a magical place, where they can run, laugh and play together with no boundaries

just a quick question on the subject of genetic testing etc.

i have my follow-up consultant appointment on mon afternoon (think i AM going to have to go on my own now too :( ) anyhow, when we got the full karyotype back from the amnio, they said that the DS was 'regular' therefore NOT a form of translocation. it also said on the report that because of that they were not going to do any of the genetic blood testing. should i query this? should i ask that dh and i are tested. or am i just being overcautious. i know that in our case it was just a random occurrance - "just one of those things" as someone said to me recently. and i do have 2 healthy children (haha apart from the 2nd one wanting to escape 10 weeks too early!!).

is it worth bringing up at the appointment? and because we DO have most of the information back re: problems etc - are there any other questions that you think would be good to ask? if i'm on my own i'll def have to write a list. is there anything you wished you had asked?

thank you ladies!
hope everyone is ok at the moment. i was dropped in the deep end this morning and had to chair a meeting full of heads of departments (aargh!) which was interesting to say the least. glad i was dropped in it though, if i'd have had too much time to think about it i would have bottled it i think!!

sorry for lack of personals, i will catch up later - prob when i get back from the memorial service. love to you all xxxxxxxxxx

hey all,

firstly, thank you for all the lovely wishes and congrats, lots of sticky thoughts welcome :)

eggy i cant really help with the genetics chat, i just know that when we thought it might be genetic and we could end up with a 25% chance of recurence if it was, my mind was all the over the place thinking about IVF and removal of the dodgy gene that way etc, all amazing technology that my (E grade) A level biology does not understand! (a family friend is a IVF nurse and was given us the possibilities straight away, way too much! Anyhoo turns out it was random, which I know is 'good' but wow, frustrating not knowing WHY?) Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is don't worry yourself, and have your questions written down and ready and don't feel you can't ask if they confuse you or you need to double check. I remember we had one Dr (the one after the second opinion scan who's pager kept going off) made me feel I needed to let him get on with his day and perhaps didn't ask all the things i wanted to.

Pretty positive here, but trying not to get carried away. My close pregnant friend gave birth on weds eve and I must admit knowing i got a bfp made it all the more easier to bear. The poor lass had an awful labour and ended up having a c/section, which tells me again that this whole process is out of our control and random! (She was a bit of a 'i wont use pain killers' type....never say never i reckon!)

stunned and flower how you doing?
cinnamon r u any better?? what happened at the dentist?
myangel hows it going with you?

hello to everyone else :)

hey mrsb we crossed posts, I don't often get that :)
Hope your service goes as well as it can, thinking of you xxx
Re your appointment, I would bring up their choice to not do the genetics testing, even if they just confirm that they knew there was no need, and prob the same for testing you. We had already been told there would be no need to test us (as at first they said they wouldnt know what caused the prob so wouldn't know what to look for, and then decided it wasnt genetic anyway) but I checked again with consultant when we mety him, as the IVF nurse I know immediately said we'd be tested when she spoke to us straight after. Better to ask something you're pretty sure you know the answer to, that to keep quiet and wonder.
Well done for the meeting :) Brave lady!!

Just popping in to say hi today... work a bit busy... still no AF! That's 34 days now... Am resolved not to test until the end of the month...

MrsBigz - if your baby's karotype showed straighforward trisomy 21 my understanding is that this is the most common type of trisomy and not due to a translocation which is why they have not recommended genetic testing for you and your DH. You can get partial trisomy of chromosome 21 causing DS, which is often due to a translocation (sometimes inherited, sometimes de novo) and therefore genetic testing to see parents karotype would be advised to identify any risk for future pregnancies. I think that DS due to translocation is much less common than straightforward trisomy 21. For reassurance you shoudl check with your consultant that your baby had regular T21 and even ask for a copy of the karotype if you would like to have this.

On the subject of what to ask, my follow up appointment was focused mostly around future pregnancy - I aksed what I could expect by way of screening and support. We were told that we could have an amnio if we wanted one for reassurance even if the nuchal came back as low risk. We were also told we could have an earlier detailed scan at around 18 weeks which woudl be done by the consultant and an early dating viability scan done at 8 weeks. We would be referred into the hospital via the FMU rather than community midwife (which at the time sounded great but in reality if you've read the other thread, caused a whole heap of problems due to me being under the radar and not having any notes). My consultant was very positive and reassuring at my follow up and gave us lots of time to ask questions.

Hope the service went as well as possible today and you feel some lightness following it.

love to everyone else.

Oh knitter, I'll add you to my quiet fingers crossed list.

mrsbigz I would think it's worth double checking about testing but if they've said that then I would think you're ok and just being overcautious.

cremegg yes the 25% recurrence is the worst case scenario I discussed with ARC yesterday, but as she said, it's still 75% ok. I cannot stress enough how helpful that chat was yesterday so I'm going to restate the main point!

The bottom line is that the vast majority of pregnancies are problem free, we have all been exceptionally unlucky and would not be generally expected to have a problem again. A very small number of people do have problems again (as we know) but they are a subset of an already small group. So think positive!

Congratulations myangelava and cremegg

treacle cat i agree with you re kittens as replacement babies, we have got moses because im not pregnant.

cinamon hope your feeling better, and hi to everyone else, must go and cook dinner as we have friends coming round.

lots of love xx

Evening ladies
Sorry been AWOL over past couple of days but been back in hospital :(
Had pains on Tuesday evening which I thought were possible UTI so went to GP Wednesday morning - she did weebtest which was clear.
She sent me to local hospital were I spent way too hours in bed, having tests / scan etc to be told can't find reason for all my pain but could be a infection so been sent home with strong pain killers & antibiotics
You should see the bruises on my arm where they tried & failed to get blood
Pain isn't so bad now so hoping to feel better over next couple of days with rest & hubby waiting on me :)
Hope everyone else is doing ok
X x

Hello to all those who I have spoken to before and all those who I haven't....

Haven't been around for a couple of weeks now so apologise for lack of personals.......Just haven't really had anything very positive to input. I think it's quite possible that I feel much worse now than I did 3 and a half months ago :-( Trouble is after a while people move on and you feel (especially after initially managing really well) that they wouldn't be interested if you brought it up now. I suppose it's that English stiff upper lip I suffer from so I also feel talking about it would make me weak and after everyone saying how proud and brave I was it's hard to admit defeat.

Big sigh....Feeling rather lonely.....Stuck in this private hell and replaying the events over and over :-(

Nice intro to the new thread btw, really sorry for lack of personals feel a right ignorant cow among other things!

I do see some congrats are in order tho, nice to have some good news :-)

P.s Sorry for the me post- needed to say a few things out loud! x

Hi Bluecat, sorry you're feeling like you are but it seems more than understandable to me. I think people here have said before that we'll never truly get over what's happened to us, just learn to live with the sadness and not let it affect our everyday lives as much. Have you been offered any counselling? Perhaps through your GP, workplace or the hospital that treated you? This might let you get things out in a safe environment without feeling like you were losing face. Otherwise, come here and say if you're feeling terrible and we can all understand. It doesn't have to be, and indeed isn't, a relentlessly positive thread.
Look after youself though.
xxx

blacktreaclecat Just been reading bk through the posts and seen yours about integrating cats.....I have a very dear but extremely grumpy 12 year old princess who HATES other cats, in fact my neighbour said she stands at their window and her cats are afraid to go out :-/ We introduced a very lovely grey kitten to her last year and she was very unhappy about that! Eventually she came round but unfortunately our kitten was run over and killed- it's was absolutely heartbreaking! So when my friends cat had some kittens last June which happened to be our grey cats nieces we couldn't resist! Ended up taking two home as she was struggling to home them :-/

Older cat was fuming! She got really really stressed!! We did get very worried at one point but we took it slowly with the first kitten eg keeping them in separate rooms and then putting her in so she could smell them etc but it made no difference when they met, hiss hiss growl!! So this time round we just put them all in together and let them get on with it! She still hates them ha ha but she has learnt to live with them! She's the boss and they respect that altho they try their luck every now and then and get swiped! We do sometimes worry that she has become more aggressive (She always was tho) and try and spend time with her when they are out.

Having 3 cats however means that my front and bk door always has a dead bird or mouse sat there! Which has got a bit depressing!

Sorry for the big long winded post......I'm a MASSIVE cat lover and can't resist talking about them!! They have brought me massive comfort recently, it's always nice to come home to a friendly miaw! xx

EggletinaClock Hi nice to meet you thank-you for your kind words. I wasn't offered any at the time although my GP did say he had an open door policy which was kind. I think I was expecting to feel better by now and ttc I think is perhaps adding to my low mood plus its that "time" so that never helps!

I'm sorry for your loss too has it been recent? I haven't kept up with this thread recently I'm just trying to read through now xx

Bluecat Sorry you're feeling down.. could it be that you're having a delayed reaction to your loss? I had an ectopic in March last year, followed by a MC in July... I thought I was doing fine, sad but fine. But then in January this year I had what should probably be called a breakdown but what I prefer to call a wobble. I was under the care of a counsellor at the time and she was delighted that I'd finally let everything out! She's sure that I didn't properly allow myself to grieve for the ectopic because I got pg again so quickly and then the shock of the MC was so horrible that I just didn't deal with that either.... I suspect she thinks the same is happening again now for me FWIW. My Termination for Down's was a month ago and so far I'm doing fine... give me a few months though and I expect I'll crash :-(

I was quite sceptical about counselling before I started it but actually it was a really valuable process - we talked about lots of things not just the losses and it really helped me sort out quite a lot of stuff in my head.

Hope that helps... and if it doesn't then I find that a ((((hug)))) always does...

For me it's been four weeks since a termination at 22 weeks. I veer from feeling ok to numb to dreadful and I expect to go on feeling all three for a good while yet. I have my first counselling appointment tomorrow, I think it may be too soon but as my GP is flinging help at me I am going along.
I think you should see if the way you are feeling now is because you're feeling hormonal and down at the moment. If it's more persistent then I think you should go back to your GP and say how you're feeling. You shouldn't be suffering on your own and they should be able to refer to someone for support.
There is so much knowledge and experience here though and as we've all been in the same appalling circumstances we can understand better than most. I'm not very far from the actual event yet but I'm sure I won't be feeling much different in another couple of months. I suspect only having a healthy pregnancy will help me and we can't control that of course.
If nothing else, just keep posting and saying how you're feeling. It might help you clarify how you feel and whether you need more support.
Sorry for rambling!

Hi bluecat, it's nice to see you back but I'm sorry that you're feeling so down. I was only telling a friend yesterday on the phone that 4 months on and no one brings it up or asks how I am anymore. I too go to counselling now and it helps a lot. If nothing else I get to talk things through for a dedicated hour every week. Maybe a visit to your gp might be a good idea?

mrsbigz, I just wanted to second all cherry's excellent genetics summary. For information's sake, it's the same with T18. The geneticists did not need to test our blood because of the nature of Ava's Edwards Syndrome. They did do a family tree though.

Re me, I'm sorry I've been quiet since my announcement but my aunty died yesterday and I'm really quite heartbroken. She was like a second mother to me growing up (from the age of 2) and I will miss her greatly.

Big love to mrsbigz after the service, I hope that it helped as Ava's funeral helped me. Xx

really sorry for the lack or personals (and particularly to bluecat - will chat tomorrow!)

just wanted to let you all know that the service this evening was very lovely (well as lovely as it could be). Eve's casket was white with a brass plaque with her name on, and they'd put a red rose on top of it, which we got to bring home to put in her memory box. the service was about 1/2 hour and they did read out all the babies names so for that reason alone we're glad we went to acknowledge her little life. we also got to hold her casket after the service which might sound wierd but was actually really nice. i did have lots of tears - particularly in one of the hymns...dh turned round as he realised i'd stopped singing!! but all in all it was ok, and we are both really glad that we went. we go back tomorrow morning for her actual burial - into a shared grave with lots of other baby friends but we get a 'private' time to have this rather than all babies at once.

so i'm a bit emotional this evening, but definitely feel like we did the right thing for us. not looking forward to tomorrow, but again i think it's the right thing for us to do - is a kind of closure for us. one thing the chaplain said during the service is that hopefully one day we will realise that something good has come out of something so sad - like our attitude to life has changed for the better, or we don't worry so much about the little day-to-day things that we can't change....and that one day that will be our baby's gift to us. i hope that is true. right now i'm going to got to bed and dream about the little girl that i never got to meet, but know that she is in a safe place and all wrapped up nice and warm.
thanks for all the thoughts today ladies, i really appreciate you thinking about me, and i will catch up with you all properly tomorrow xxxxxxxxxxxx

oh gosh, myangelava i just saw your post and wanted to say i'm so terribly sorry to hear about your aunty. i know there are probably no words to say in this situation but i just wanted to send you some big hugs xxxxx

Hi
Congratulations creme egg - hope it is a stress free 9 months.
Angelava sorry about your Aunty.
Bluecat I'm sorry you are feeling so down. tbh I think it is natural to feel worse a few months down the line, esp if you are coming up to memorable dates. I had a mc and crashed around the due date, nearly ended up on antidepressants but started counselling instead.
Cats are great therapy too. We are doing quite well Treacle seems to have accepted Denzel and just wants to wash him!
Stunned sorry you are feeling poorly. It is very early days, take it easy and get pampered
Afm can't wait to get this cycle over so I can start clomid again. Feeling fairly positive. See how long it lasts.
Xxx

Hello ladies -

So many emotions on this thread - grief, sadness, hopefullness, happiness....

I wish we could all get together in one room and have a massive group .

bluecat - never feel you cant chat here with us unless you're jolly! . Goodness knows i ramble on here almost every day and most of it is just a load of rubbish gets it off my chest tho'. And theres always a kind soul to humour me here. Bless you - come in for a cuppa more often, ok? xxx

myangel - so sorry for the loss of your Auntie. What an awful shock for you. We're thinking of you here xx

stunned - you have a good rest my love. Hope all the pains have gone today, perhaps you were overdoing things? Nice to know you've had a thourough check over and some good meds. Keep us posted xx

knitter and egglet - i worry about how much i've burried my feelings. I wonder if its all going to rear up and catch me out in a few weeks/months. I gave up work just before xmas (job too stressy for the money i was getting basicly) - with the idea of finding a new gentler job after xmas, and promptly fell preg. Then the termonation in April - so consequently i'm not working (apart from running a home with three teenagers and a self employed builder) I feel like i'm coping with life ok, some days are better than others. Occasional tears. But the thought of job hunting fills me with worry. I'm worried that at the mo. too much of all the kind of concerns that come with a new job may be too much for me. Sigh. I feel a bit pathetic about it. The idea of councelling frightens me even more ......

mrsbigz - the service sounded lovely. As good as it culd have been. I'm thinking of you this morning, and again i'm glad we have sunshine for you. (weather obsessed brit here!) Talk to us later and tell us how you are xx

Hi Ladies,

Just a note on time. It's been 6 1/2 months since I gave birth to my baby girl. And I'm now 15 weeks pregnant. Some days I still cry for her, fleeting episodes now and then I get on with things as normal. I still think of her all the time. I miss her and so wish she could have been here. I know that this baby cannot replace her. I have the fear and worry of a new pregnancy with an added dimension of grief. Someone on here said to me in my early days that the pain and sadness lessens over time and you return to a new normal. In that an experience such as this changes you. I think perhaps that is what your chaplain was getting at MrsBigz, there is indeed something positive that can come out of such an experience. A deeper understanding of life perhaps, a greater empathy for others, resilience from realising that you can cope with more than you thought you could and more acute joy when happy experiences come.

I always feel very emotional when I read others experiences of loss and I also feel very emotional when I see children with disabilities. I feel many emotions, loss, regret, wonder at what might have been, admiration for the strength of others. I feel I now 'get' something in life that I didnt get before and I hope this makes me a richer person.

Anyway, I think that time moves us all on and it does get less painful as we process the trauma of what we have all been through, Because that is what it is, trauma and loss. And the unfairness of it all is that we have to live with the 'what ifs' even though we know we made the right decisons. It isn't easy but it does get easier and I think its important to remember that it is a journey. In many years to come we will all remember and love our babies but life will have moved us on and many happy experiences will seperate us from that dark time. And if dark times come again we will know that we can cope. because we have already. And I for one will always remember the support and without sounding too hippie about it, peace, that this thread brought me in knowing that others know what it's like and can reach out and help.

Bluecat, good to see you back. Your grumpy cat sounds like mine by the way!
Mrsbigz - the service sounds lovely. I'm glad it helped.
Myangel - so sorry to hear of your aunty, lots of love.

Everyone else, hope you are well, have a good Friday and lots of love to you all.

hey all

myangel so sorry to hear of your loss, sending you lots of hugs at this difficult time xxxx

bluecat so nice to see you back, and sorry you have felt so down. I have found that people dont ask anymore, but if they do they kinda answer their own questions by saying 'im sure it's good days and bad'... which yes is true, but it would be nice if that wasnt the end of the chat (this is my mothers response!)

I am feeling rough with a sore throat, my tonsil is taking over the back of my mouth, yeeouch! I blame year 8 for the 4 lessons we have on fridays, and the need to project my voice so much to get them to settle. grrr. Also had a charming boy ask if id had a baby recently, my kneejerk panic in mid class was no, so THEN he says 'oh but so and so said you did' so i just mumbled 'err yes it all went a bit horribly wrong'... then scarperred across thre class and could still hear them talking about it, so asked them to stop. CRrrriiinge. What can you do eh? 13 yr old boys!

stunned hope you're feeling a bit better and resting up? i have the same probs with veins, ended up with the drip in my inner elbow when my wrist area wouldnt give them any, had a trainee and she was hamming away! poor DH was trying to warm up the veins with warm towels too, quite comical now i look back at it. Anyway, take it very easy and sleep if you can.

mrsb glad the service was positive, it must be hard knowing you are back again the next day, bit of a waiting evening I'd guess? Hope it goes as well as it can tomorrow. Thinking of you xx

Im off to get more lemon and honey, I am determined to kick this throat the natural way!

xxx

I'm baaaaacccccckkk!!!

(Imaging my slightly psychotic face pressed up against a hole in a door a la Jack Nicholson in 'The Shining'.......'here's Cinnamondog'!!)

Hello ladies, so much has been going on again, I really can't leave you alone can I? Here we go....

Firstly, just my massive CONGRATULATIONS again to myangelAva and cremegg. Was having dinner with my best and oldest friend, (26 years best buddies, blimey, she's patient!), and just quickly hacked her wi fi via my phone while she put her little girl to bed, hence my garbled message Wednedsay. Shared the news with her; she asked was I jealous, (she lost 2 little ones to m/c, one at 8 weeks, one at 12 weeks and hasn't tried ttc since). I had to tell her, no I'm not. Wish I had the same news, but as I said, I feel a bfp for one of us is a bfp for all of us. And 2 bfp's?? Super bonus! It's put a real spring in my step & hope in my heart - thank you ladies! xxxxxxx

mrsbigz, so glad you were able to go to Eve's memorial and that it was positive for you, if a few tears. Big hugs and am thinking of you today xxxx

myangelAva, so sorry about your aunty; hope you can remember the good times with a lovely lady and keep smiling. Hope the next few days become easier for you xxxxx

stunned, poor you. Feeling ill is all you need at this time. UTI's and infections of that sort seem to have got a few of us, I think the trauma to our bodies, especially below the belt so to speak makes us a bit susceptible. Really hope you are feeling much, much better soon, take care xxxx

bluecat, so good to have you back but so sorry you are feeling down. We are all here for you, sending masses of love and support. If it helps, (and I know she wouldn't mind me saying), my BF I mentioned earlier still has issues with her m/c's 3 years on. Not constantly, but certain things just remind her and she goes for a little cry and some quiet time. She got more upset than me on Wednesday, (the first time we've been face to face since I lost little one). So, I think what I am trying to say is we will all be effected by our losses forever, so don't worry that this is an inabilty to cope or anything on your part. It's just a normal, healthy part of grieving; you are being honest with how you feel, not bottling it up and running yourself into the ground trying to pretend. That is good and shows just how strong you really are. xxxxx

All the other lovely ladies, hope you are doing well? We seem to all be going through a roller coaster this week, positives and negatives so I really hope all your days are filled with the positives and will try to do a few more personals next time, (bad cinnamon!).

me update. All the dental work went well, all done, minimum soreness and now back home. Also, didn't get charged although had 3 fillings and a scale/ polish thing because my denist said when he diagnosed me I was pregnant so even though I'm now not, as far as he's concerned I dont have to pay and if they give him any hassle he'll deal with it and I'm not to worry. Bless him!! This is the same guy who extracted a nasy tooth 10 years ago in the week before Christmas and didn't charge me because, 'some things are more important than money and now you can have a nice Christmas'. I love my dentist!

Still sore back and not sure if the kidneys still hurt as the pain is all in that area, so not sure if the ab's are working or not, hmmmm..... AF due sometime between yesterday and Monday, (given slightly wonky cycle at the mo), but bfn today so, has anyone seen my Auntie Flo? Would like her to come and go please, thank you! OH's last day at his old job today, he starts his new one on Tuesday, exciting! And have lots of friends coming for an SA style bbq, (braai apparently) tomorrow so need to clean this darn house!

But first a big fat cup of tea, big Friday hugs to all,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

cinnamon, what a chirpy post! You've cheered me up and inspired me to have a cup of tea before I carry on with my enormous 'to do' list. Oh, and I think I love your dentist!

Thank you for the hugs, everyone. Yesterday was a very tearful day but I'm feeling a bit brighter today. Thank you also to cherry for your post, it's nice to hear wise words from people who are a bit further along the path I am and it has made me feel a bit more positive about things.

cremegg- I too have a horrible sore throat and my glands in my neck are up! I think we are strangely linked- could you be my long lost twin I never knew existed?! How charming Year 8's can be! When I used to teach, I always found that being open and honest as I could (to a point!) used to work a treat, esp with the lower years, however I was working in an all girls high school & college and it's a different kettle of fish altogether!

Thinking of mrsbigz today ((hugs)) and hoping that Bluecat and Egglet in particular are feeling a bit happier than of late.

Hello to everyone else, my cup of tea and biccie are calling me! Xx

Evening ladies
Sorry to read about you loss Myangelava sending you a remote hug
Feeling little better today - can't believe it is only a week since we lost our little one. Feels like so long ago.
Not done much except for the weekly food shop with hubby who bless him wouldn't let me carry anything - could get used to that idea :)
Think I will take step back / away from those with colds as that is last thing I need lol
They were tapping my arm / hand quite hard to try to get a vein to stand out - I did tell them it hurt but they didn't hear meow choose to ignore me
Got a bit miffed at someone I had told re Amelia - she went & told someone else who has now emailed me - this person hasn't said she knows but from email I can see she knows if you know what I mean. Going to remain calm & reply not with naff off & stop being so fecking nosey but with a polite I am fine thanks etc.
I am still not happy with the world & his wife knowing what we have been through - how has everyone else dealt with this???
Nothing planned for rest of weekend but veggin I think

stunned - it's hard dealing with who to tell, who not to tell. And how, and when. When my OH was telling people the bad news about the scan, and our decision to terminate (bless him i was useless) he would ask that would they pass the news on to anyone they thought should know. That was mainly family and close friends. In this way we didnt feel we would leave anyone out, and have some awkward situation come up.

Personaly, although i hated the idea of being discused/judged, i just let the news travel round our village like news does here. The news of my pregnancy was common knowledge within a day or so and so too of my termination. (Teenage daughters! They tell their best friend, best friend tells their Mum, mum tells ...... and so on ).

I know its horrid having to keep dealing with people who want you to talk to them about what has happened - but on the whole they are just trying to do the right thing by you i think. It wont take long before no one mentions it at all .... like it never happened.