Partner doesn’t want my mum at birth of our son but I do. Should I ignore him?

[motheratbirth]

I’m due the end of September so have a while to go, hopefully the COVID situation is better so people can come to the hospital with me.

As the title says, I want my mother there but my partner said he doesn’t. We spoke about it when we first found out I was pregnant and he said no but I let it go because I was only like 6 weeks gone. As it’s getting closer I brought it up again. The conversation went like this:

Me: By the way, I do actually want my mum at the birth.
Him: But I told you I don’t want her there.
Me: I know but seeing as I’m the one pushing out the baby, if I want my mum there she should be there.
H: I said no.
M: But why?
H: Because I don’t.
M: But I’m the one giving birth, I want her there for support.
H: Why is my opinion not valid?
M: Because I’m the one that’s going to be in pain not you. So if I need or want my mother there I should be allowed to have her there. She’s not going to interfere at all, just be there in case I need her for support.

(This is going to my second baby, my mum was at my last birth. She didn’t do anything that time. Literally sat in the corner and told me to breathe (until I told her to shut up) and that was it. It just made me feel better just knowing she was there though which is why she just sat in the corner. Explained this to him).

H: I’m your support.
M: Give me a good reason as to why you don’t want her there.
H: It’s my first child and I want it to just be me there, no one else. It’ll be wrong and I’ll be uncomfortable if she’s there. I should be enough support for you so why do you need her? I don’t want her there so she shouldn’t be.

At the point I felt like crying so stopped talking. Dramatic I know but but I feel like it’s my mother not some random person and I’m the one giving birth so why is my opinion not valid? He already said no to a water birth because ‘it’s disgusting’ so feel like he’s being unreasonable now.

Would I be in the wrong if I ignored him and invited my mum to birth anyway?

I agree with this guy. I wouldn't want to have to juggle someone else's expectations of how I'm doing in labour and what birth I should have, they can fuck off. I'd just want a midwife and me.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/18/men-birth-labour-baby

Giving birth can be a beautiful magical experience for some. Or it can be a terrifying nightmare. Or anywhere in between.

But the absolute best chance of getting closer to the former experience, and the best way to do what is actually best for the baby and make it more likely to end up with a straightforward, trauma-free experience for all is to ensure the mother is calm, informed and empowered to make the decisions that feel right for her and her baby.

The calmer and more relaxed you are, the better your chances of a straightforward labour. Obviously it’s not as simple as that and sometimes things happen that are out of our control but in general this is a situation where doing what is right for the mother is also doing what is right for the baby.

So no, it’s not about what the partner wants or his feelings. Not at all.

I’m speaking as someone whose own mother died in childbirth. It’s not an abstract 1 in 10000 risk for me. It’s real and horrific and has impacted my whole life. The best way I can try to overcome that trauma and have a positive outcome for me and my baby when I give birth next month is to be informed and to do everything in my power to stay calm and relaxed throughout, whatever turns it takes. To do that I need to make informed decisions and have them respected. If my husband thought that his feelings should be the deciding factor in those decisions I’d not be having him at the birth and I’d be rethinking our relationship.

I keep coming across threads in different topics lately where posters are so full of how important men’s feelings are in pregnancy and childbirth, how hard it is for them to bond, how sad that they’re denied the honour and privilege of carrying and birthing the baby, how their feelings and wishes are equally important or even more important because they can’t go to scans at the moment which is so very hard for them that the mother should make up for it by deferring to what he wants for everything else. It makes my eyes roll so hard they’re in danger of rolling out of my head.

Of course the partner/father is allowed an opinion. Of course he’s important. But his main importance and role is to support the mother and by extension his child. If he wants to be an involved parent prior to and during the birth then the way to do that is by supporting, listening to and advocating for his partner. It’s not throwing his weight around about what he wants or how it all makes him feel or what he thinks is best. Parenting decisions should be joint of course - but pregnancy and birth decisions are ultimately down to the one who IS pregnant and IS giving birth.

OP it does sound like you have a good plan. I really hope your partner steps up and realises what is involved in supporting you and that ‘winging it’ is absolutely not an option. The Positive Birth Book is really good as a pp mentioned. There’s also books aimed specifically at dads. I also can’t recommend The Positive Birth Company digital pack enough. It’s £40 and it’s a load of videos you can watch together. It does talk about hypnobirthing but don’t be put off thinking it’s all woo and hippy, it’s honestly not. It gives really good, clear explanations of what is going on in childbirth and it really stresses how important the birth partner is and what’s needed from them. There’s also stuff about water births and other pain relief and all your options which may help you to open up discussion with him about those things. There is stuff about massage and guided meditations and stuff that we skipped because that stuff isn’t really for me, but even so there’s more than enough in there to justify the cost and both DH and I feel more informed and prepared having watched them. Definitely worth looking at.

Fathers never used to be present at childbirth, then some forty or so years ago it became a thing. Now they want to call the shots.

[quote wildone84]I agree with this guy. I wouldn't want to have to juggle someone else's expectations of how I'm doing in labour and what birth I should have, they can fuck off. I'd just want a midwife and me.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/18/men-birth-labour-baby[/quote]
Odent said that men witnessing childbirth can ruin the sexual attraction between a couple and lead to them becoming just good friends and thengetting divorced. Some men end up suffering from a widely-unrecognised male equivalent of postnatal depression, he added. Others end up playing golf or computer games – or even walking out and never returning – as they try to avoid their new reality. A few end up with schizophrenia or other mental disorders, he said.

I have the feeling that Dr Odent's opinions don't stem from peer reviewed research there.

I've known a fair few relationships break up soon after a baby comes along though. I'm sure it is also to do with the stress of having a baby but there could be other factors too like the trauma of childbirth. One friend's husband had to go into counselling for his PTSD after the birth went wrong and she nearly died.

I wouldn't have my man in the room when giving birth, that's for sure. I wouldn't want him to see me like that and it would stress me out being observed.

I don't disagree that being at the birth can't be traumatic for men. It's hard to see your partner in pain and be helpless, or to be around when things are going wrong. But Michel Odent just seems to be relying on anecdote there.

My dad had the opposite experience back in the 50s. He lost his first wife in childbirth, then when my mum (his second wife) was in labour, he wasn't allowed in the delivery room. like every other father back then. Not even for a second, at any point of my mum's labour or the birth. He said he spent the whole time terrified. He just needed to know what was happening, but he had no place, and no-one had any interest in reassuring him or keeping him informed.

@coyoacan "then some forty or so years ago it became a thing" ummm yes rightfully so there's a reason things change over time, it's usually for the better. Not all of them want to call the shots, it's unfortunate for the op her partner does. What an old fashioned narrow minded comment.

Op it's your birth you get to decide who is in there with you. He has to accept that, he has no choice he can't order her out the room.

When I gave birth it was all about my baby and their safety, so I knew I had to be calm and listen to the midwives and to my intuition and to try and keep my head. Childbirth carries it's joys but it's risks too- so really what the father wants or thinks they need is beside the point. They have their time once baby and mum are safe. That sounds harsh now I've read it but i think it's true- their only job here is support and it doesn't sound like he is supporting you through one of the most difficult things you have to do by not a) supporting your decision for a water birth and b) supporting your decision to have your mum there.

Communication issues - you really do need to sort this.

My DP wasn’t initially keen on the home birth I wanted, but because he worried about the risks to me & the baby (because he’d done his research). We talked, we sorted it so we were both reassured. Similarly I’d have taken any objection on safety grounds to a water birth - and then been able to discuss them sensibly, with a midwife present if needed to help the discussion- but on ‘it's disgusting’ I’d have been livid and stuck to my guns.

If you have another child, you already know there’s so MUCH you need clear communication on as equal parents. But childbirth is not equal - it’s on you, so he needs to step aside a little on this if it helps you relax. Insist.

What an old fashioned narrow minded comment

????
I suppose anyone who refers to history is old-fashioned and narrow-minded in your eyes. You believe in constant progress and that things are always getting better and better and that everything that was done in the past was wrong.

I actually wasn't actually saying whether one thing is better than the other, except that it has gone too far when a woman has to give birth in such a way as to please the father of the baby.

I had my mum and partner there for all 3 of mine. DS1 came out with the cord around his neck and not breathing, dp kept an eye on baby and gave me updates by the second. My mum was with me holding my hand whilst I had stitches, I was in shock and needed calming down. Ds2 needed to be taken away for a medical test straight after birth, dp went with him, mum straight with me. DS3 was an easy birth, no complications. Mum was the tea runner.

(Now ex) DP never questioned any choice I made for my births. If women want their mum there for extra support then why not?! Would we judge a woman having their DP and a doula?

When men delivers the babies, men get to decide who Will be in the delivery room..

If he thinks water births are disgusting, wait until he sees you actually giving birth.

Blood possible chances of poo, very glamourous

A question to you having been through one divorce and I have learned many lessons...
How involved is your mother going to be in your relationship? Is this the first of many things that will make your partner feel that there is 3 of you in this relationship and you'll be asking her opinion rather than his?
If you can confidently state that this is not a sign of things to come then go ahead.

I don't disagree that being at the birth can't be traumatic for men. It's hard to see your partner in pain and be helpless, or to be around when things are going wrong.

Of course it is, it's hard to see anyone you love or care about in pain or see things go wrong. But guess what - it's even harder for the woman giving birth who's actually the one in pain, helpless and having things going wrong which can kill her or permanently damage her body. And that's why the woman and her wants and needs come first. Because she's the one actually experiencing all the horrific things and although witnessing them is horrific too it's not comparable to experiencing them.

@saraclara

I don't disagree that being at the birth can't be traumatic for men. It's hard to see your partner in pain and be helpless, or to be around when things are going wrong. But Michel Odent just seems to be relying on anecdote there.

My dad had the opposite experience back in the 50s. He lost his first wife in childbirth, then when my mum (his second wife) was in labour, he wasn't allowed in the delivery room. like every other father back then. Not even for a second, at any point of my mum's labour or the birth. He said he spent the whole time terrified. He just needed to know what was happening, but he had no place, and no-one had any interest in reassuring him or keeping him informed.

I suppose as an obstetrician he has been part of many more births than any of us will be.

I'd not want a man in the delivery room. It's one of the (many) reasons I'm not having kids, my boyfriend would be upset he wouldn't be allowed in. He also believes natural births are better with no epidural or elective c section, and that birth should be a positive experience for the mother, because it's "natural". Therefore I'm not reproducing with him.

@NotMyTimes

I don't disagree that being at the birth can't be traumatic for men. It's hard to see your partner in pain and be helpless, or to be around when things are going wrong.

Of course it is, it's hard to see anyone you love or care about in pain or see things go wrong. But guess what - it's even harder for the woman giving birth who's actually the one in pain, helpless and having things going wrong which can kill her or permanently damage her body. And that's why the woman and her wants and needs come first. Because she's the one actually experiencing all the horrific things and although witnessing them is horrific too it's not comparable to experiencing them.

Totally agree. It isn't about the person watching, it's about the person going through it, and what they want.

He sounds like a right prick!
He doesn't get to say yes or no - it's not his fucking choice you need to set him straight OP

I think reading everyone’s comments it’s clear that giving birth is a very personal thing. It can be the closest thing to magic you’ll ever experience or scary and traumatic. It may feel like something deeply private or you may want the support of a wider circle. Different woman will want different levels of support - that’s fine. I knew I would go inward and pretty much block out my husband - he might as well have not been there - and I certainly didn’t want anyone (my mum) fussing over me.

I felt no need to have my mum there. She would have stressed me out and I wouldn’t have relaxed. For me, it did feel like something intimate between my husband and me; growing from a couple to parents and the emotion of it felt like something that was just for us in that moment. But, I can see how others would absolutely want a mother’s or another woman’s support. You’re the one giving birth so ultimately you have the trump card and what you want you get.

However, in all likeliness, this argument is all a bit redundant as I don’t think, in the current climate, you’ll be allowed two birth partners anyway.

@coyoacan ah yes that's exactly what I said. Everything done in the past is wrong ... Your comment came across that you had generalised the entire male population to have the same attitude as the op's partner. Sorry if that wasn't the case and I misread. As I said it's unfortunate in this case that op had a controlling partner. But the vast majority of people want them there and they aren't controlling, and don't dictate how the birth should go. The op has been unlucky in this case. It has gone to far but the majority don't. My partner would never tell me what I can and can't do when birthing my children, and I don't personally know anyone's partner that would. That's my view I'm going to leave this post now as I've given the op my advice. I don't want to high jack it with a disagreement.

What can't he offer that your mum can?

@combatbarbie he doesn't seem able to offer the invaluable thing of "respecting his partner's birth wishes", which is something that is pretty damn important in the delivery room.

The people in the delivery room are supposed to be there for the mother and the baby, not their own comfort. If he is kicking off now, and making it all about what he wants, then he can't be relied on to respect her wishes in the delivery room when his support will be most needed.

birth should be a positive experience for the mother, because it's "natural"

Kidney stones are "natural" but they're very rarely a positive experience for anyone.

I had my mum at the birth of my first because I was alone. It didn't even cross my mind to have her there for the second because I had dp, and she won't be there for the third, and she wouldn't expect to be. I'm very close to my mum, spend time with her most days as we do the same job, but I tend to agree with your partner on this one. It's a personal and emotional time. Your do isn't as close to your mum as you are and he might feel quite awkward.

@ChaosRising

birth should be a positive experience for the mother, because it's "natural"

Kidney stones are "natural" but they're very rarely a positive experience for anyone.

😂😂

It's one of the (many) reasons I'm not having kids, my boyfriend would be upset he wouldn't be allowed in. He also believes natural births are better with no epidural or elective c section, and that birth should be a positive experience for the mother, because it's "natural". Therefore I'm not reproducing with him.

You could always dump the boyfriend and have a baby with someone else......