Should I refuse Vaccine?

[M0MY32]

Hi everyone,
I'm just over 28 weeks pregnant and my midwife has asked whether I have been vaccinated for Pertussis yet. I told her I had not as I had read about the Aluminium toxicity in the vaccine and decided against having it. She is being fairly pushy about it and now I don't know what to do. Help please!

You said in your op i don’t know what to do help...but you’ve been arguing and posting links ever since.

I think you know exactly what your doing.

Are you even reading the articles you’re posting 😂😂😂

If you want to pretend to be a concerned mum on here to start an antivax argument you need to try a bit harder. Your intention is obvious.

OP, how will you manage to feed your child? After all, aluminium is found in food.

Please read Bruffin's links. They make interesting reading. They suggest that vaccination administration outweighs risks of aluminium adjuvants in vaccinations.

I'm only posting links to what I've been reading up on. I just cant decide to take the vaccine based on say so, if I was convinced it was safe I wouldn't be asking you all?

@shhhfastasleep she's not even goady because she has no evidence to support her argument. At least the usual stupid anti vaxxer crowd believe that vaccines cause autism so in their brains they've got a reason, this one has picked an ingredient and can't find an actual reason or any legitimate evidence to prove why it might be harmful. Everything has the potential to be harmful. Make sure you don't feed your baby in case it chokes, don't drive your car in case someone hits you, don't walk downstairs in case you fall. Where does it end?

You’re not reading them though go somewhere else to be a GF

I am aware of the aluminium in food, I'm not worried about that as it is ingested, not injected, completely different, covered this earlier!

Dippingmytoesin I was wondering the same thing - the articles are unrelated to the OP’s (supposed) specific concerns!

Stupid anti vaxxer is stupid.

For anyone reading this and thinking that the op has a point, my mother didn't vaccinate me against it in the early 80's. I ended up in the hospital very poorly. Controversy over vaccines is nothing new. There will always be quacks and charlatans trying pushing their anti science stance.

Those articles don't support what you are saying. The first is a study of 6 rabbits and the second a study of 15 infants who were 2 months old at time of vaccination. Neither study shows any adverse effects of aluminium.

And the infants in the study were premature and hospitalised so not your average child

based on say-so

All you need to know is in that sentence right there guys. All your science is uninteresting to the OP because it is ‘say-so’ where as OP’s completely unscientific science is obviously hard fact..

Stop wasting your breath on this GF.

OP you don't understand how science works. No one can prove absolutely that there is no harm at all done by something. How would they even do that? Will you be refusing ever to cross a road with your child because it's not been proven 100% safe? (and of course isn't)

Don't know why I'm bothering. Very clearly a goady anti vaccines thread. Makes me angry that we have access to protection from disease in this country that would be envied in many others and idiots turn it down.

Ahh, you're not fully convinced its safe... well there we are then.
I presume this means you are not travelling in a car with your baby, previously, now, or ever in the future???

"@shhhfastasleep she's not even goady because she has no evidence to support her argument. At least the usual stupid anti vaxxer crowd believe that vaccines cause autism so in their brains they've got a reason"
lol, I am not "anti vax". You are entitled to informed consent in medical matters. Do you think pharmaceutical companies have never been dishonest about side affects or efficacy of other drugs? Just because I'm concerned about the ingredients in the Vaccine doesn't mean I'm against all vaccines!

And the fact the BMJ has a study showing that 20,000 women since 2012 have had the vaccine safely administered "In women given pertussis vaccination in the third trimester, there is no evidence of an increased risk of any of an extensive predefined list of adverse events related to pregnancy. I" ...this means nothing?

You’re very clearly anti vaxx and highly misinformed if the array of links you’re posting are anything to go by.

I chose not to have the pertussis vaccine for similar reasons to the OP. I'm not convinced it's safe to have any vaccinations during pregnancy. In fact I've taken no medication during pregnancy at all, not even paracetamol. Either way you don't know what the outcome will be - the vaccine could harm your baby, but not having the vaccine could result in whooping cough. It's the first of many decisions you'll have to make about what's best for your baby, and there will never be any right answer. You make your choice and you live with the consequences either way.

I don't think there is enough scientific evidence on the efficacy of the vaccine but there is a great deal of scientific evidence on the toxicity of Aluminium?

On the basis of the links people have posted,there appears to be literally no evidence of babies being harmed by the vaccine, whereas there is far too much evidence of babies being harmed by whooping cough. You seem to be working on the basis that you have to assume it is harmful unless someone can point you to a study that gives a 100% guarantee that it is risk free. Is that the way you take all decisions in life? If so, I'd be amazed that you ever leave your house.

Try looking at this the other way round. What evidence-based research can you point to that states that the risk from the vaccine is greater than the risk from whooping cough? Because nothing you have posted so far states that.

Of course I am considering vaccinating my baby when born. I would however be concerned about them having too many vaccinations at one time (for the same reason) so will certainly be spacing them out over a longer period of time and seeking to find single vaccines where possible.

What are you planning to do to shield your child from infection over the period when you are delaying in vaccinating him or her?

You KNOW for sure that whooping cough kills babies.

You DON'T KNOW for sure that the vaccination harms babies.

Even based on that, logically, which one should you have a bet on?

People have given you evidence to show that there are no known dangers from the aluminium in vaccines. Nothing is 100% safe. It appears that no matter what we tell you it's not going to make a difference to your opinion. If your child gets sick from a preventable illness I hope you will take a long hard look at yourself. People would give their right arm for vaccines in other countries and you are spouting crap bout pharmaceutical companies

When offered it in 2013 they had released it without any studies/evidence that having the jab actually made any difference to the babies chances. I don't know if things have moved on now but I wasn't offered it this time! (Now 40+1 so a bit late!)

this explains it well

"The aluminium in vaccines is not a heavy metal. It is not even in metallic form as portrayed by vaccine fearmongerers. It is in the form of a salt, usually aluminium hydroxide. The aluminium in aluminium hydroxide is not readily bioavailable and retention is extremely low from both ingestion and injection.

Aluminium salts that you ingest (eg. antacids, buffered aspirin, some processed foods) are mostly excreted before they get to enter the bloodstream. In healthy subjects, less than 0.3% of aluminium that you eat is absorbed via the GI tract and the kidneys effectively eliminate aluminium from the body. Intravenous infusion of products containing aluminium (ie injection directly into the bloodstream via a drip connected to a vein, as with intravenous nutrition pouches for patients in a hospital) or renal dysfunction are the only real scenarios where aluminium has the potential to accumulate.

Once aluminium is in the bloodstream, it is processed similarly regardless of the source. It just depends on the amount received and if the kidneys can keep up. Continuous infusion, we are talking litres here, of a nutrition product delivered directly into the bloodstream, is much more of a deal than a miniscule amount of aluminium hydroxide in a 0.5 ml vaccine injected into muscle. Most of the injected aluminium from vaccines will eventually enter the bloodstream, but it’s not taken up readily by the cells, it is not bioavailable.

Only a very tiny percentage of it will be “dissolved” in the blood – it’s in the form of precipitate bound to carrier proteins. Approximately 89 percent of this aluminium is processed by binding to a protein called transferrin, and the rest is bound to citrate. The majority of the bound aluminium will be processed and eliminated through the kidneys, a small amount through bile and faeces, and a tiny amount is retained in tissues of the body.

About 50% of the aluminium in the bloodstream is eliminated in less than 24 hours, more than 75% is eliminated within two weeks and even more over time. A diminishingly small amount may be retained. But we’re talking about a fraction of two hundredths of bugger all. The ability of the body to rapidly eliminate aluminium hydroxide accounts for its excellent record of safety as a vaccine adjuvant."

aluminium is only a problem with long term exposure ie an intravenous drip or a workplace exposure.