Child tax credit is it true ?

[Coreynkayden]

Iv seen people sharing things about no money will be giving to families that are expecting there 3rd child after today does anybody know if this is true ?? I understand price cuts to help but i dnt see how me and my kids are going to suvive on the money i get wen my baby is here we only jst manage now :(

Im not a financial expert. People should be prepared for that sort of thing before they have a baby. I worry all the time about something happening to my dh and me being left with our unborn baby and his son. Which is why I save a lot. I always prepare for the worst case scenario because you never know what will happen.
This has been in the news for along time, people could of made preparations

It's truly sad how many people can lack empathy and compassion!

If your own disability stops you from working then how could you look after a child??

My understanding of the fact that a 3rd child currently paid for, would never be entitled to tax credits again, if the parents stopped claiming temporarily, is that it is another barrier to work. Particularly for single parents, finding decent childcare, a job which doesn't require any working outside normal childcare hours, arranging all the pick-up and drop offs, working out the changes in finances, never knowing how they'll cope if a child is ill, is already a big risk, knowing it'll permanently damage their household finances if it doesn't work out, is probably going to make it too risky for many.

So much human misery and suffering, all to supposedly save an amount of money, which is a drop in the ocean compared to the taxes avoided by big business and vastly wealthy individuals.

Even if the scheme works and some poor people have fewer children, the costs of chaotic lives made more chaotic and desperate, will almost certainly wipe out those savings.

Its worth noting that the 2 child policy applies to Child Tax Credit but not Working Tax Credit. So, should you return to work, you will still be able to get child care costs for all three children
WTC CC only has two levels though -
£122.50 for CC for one child or £210 for two or more children (per week)

Therefore whether you have 2 or 5 children, you would only be entitled to claim CC costs of up to £210 a week.

Are you actually 14?

I realise the thread has moved on but wouldn't financial considerations come into the decision as to whether to have another child. i don't want another (after 2 DCs) but even if I did, I don't think I could afford to in terms of all the many costs big and small. Just very basically: food for example. I can't gauge if I'm really missing something here but there are a lot of costs involved in bringing up a child.

I realise that the benefits cut is a separate social issue. I don't know, maybe I need to be enlightened

Yeah I'm a pregnant 14 year old. But I can afford to bring up my baby and if anything bad happens I've been saving my pocket money so I'll be OK.
Like I said you cant afford it don't do it, have a good night

Wouldn't it be nice to go to your employers and guarantee X wage increase each time you had a child - because you know they cost money?

companies wouldn't do it, so why should the government? It's not 'free cash' someone somewhere has earnt that money and paid into the the system

Some people aren't capable of organising savings, forward planning etc. What should happen to them? Let them and their children starve to death eh? I don't have an issue with caps to benefits but is there really any need to kick at people when they are down? I bet some of you were rubbing your hands together when this thread popped up.

TonySopranosvest, what I don't understand about your link to the comic strip showing Richard and Paula, is why the writer has conveniently polarised them? I mean why can't Paula have books and be read to at the breakfast table? I grew up in poverty. We had lots of books around; albeit mostly borrowed from the library. I was read to and talked to despite Dad working long hours and mum having 2 jobs. There was never lots of potentially unsafe adults I was unsure of roaming through the house. Why do lack of books and lots of people and noise need to be characteristics of Paula's life?

Also, the internship part is ridiculously removed from the lives of those living just above the threshold who are telling you they cannot afford to have a third child.

That comic strip fails to illustrate anything me other than the writer/illustrator being able to pigeon hole what he sees as a privileged start. As far as I can see, and going on my own upbringing, there is nothing stopping Paula's parents providing most of what Richard's parents provide in the formative years.

Living on benefits is shit. So I honestly cannot understand why if you're struggling financially already you would go ahead and have another baby. I'd be using double contraception and doing everything I could to avoid falling further down that hole.

As I said, I grew up in that environment and I would rather have sawn my own leg off than get pregnant as a teenager.

"Richard and Paula, is why the writer has conveniently polarised them? I mean why can't Paula have books and be read to at the breakfast table? I grew up in poverty. We had lots of books around; albeit mostly borrowed from the library. library has been closed due to cuts I was read to and talked to despite Dad working long hours and mum having 2 jobs. when and by whom? Because your parents wouldn't have had much time There was never lots of potentially unsafe adults I was unsure of roaming through the house. weren't you lucky Why do lack of books and lots of people and noise need to be characteristics of Paula's life again library closed, can't afford books, lots of people and noise - many poor households are overcrowded as they can only afford small properties to rent

"Also, the internship part is ridiculously removed from the lives of those living just above the threshold who are telling you they cannot afford to have a third child" where's your evidence for this? Families where the parents were able to go to uni are more likely to have the connections to enable an internship opportunity for their child

As far as I can see, and going on my own upbringing, there is nothing stopping Paula's parents providing most of what Richard's parents provide in the formative years.

Paula's parents being poor are more likely to end up in poor housing, under threat of a revenge eviction if they dare complain about the damp

children living in conditions like this are more likely to get sick, miss school. That also means one of the parents has to take time off work (unpaid) and risk losing their job altogether

paula's at a worse school because her parents can't afford to live in the catchment area for the better school. They also don't have the time and resources to fight this. That's why Paula getting a B is a real achievement (she's overcome lack of resources, more time off school sick, lack of support as parents need to work longer hours and can't afford tutors, less well qualified/experienced and/or burnt out teachers...) Richard hasn't had to deal with any of that

paula going to a lower quality HE institute because she wasn't at the 'right school' and because her parents can't afford higher fees/living costs, having less time to dedicate to studies, fewer resources/support. Poorer students are more likely to end up leaving as can't afford to continue or because their families are more likely to need them to

And so on - did you really need it spelling out?!

"gillybeanz how about don't have children you can't afford gilly was addressing EXACTLY that attitude if you read her post properly

and perhaps if not in employment, go and find a job? yea cos there's thousands of full time jobs for everyone

Tax credits are a relatively new thing and generations survived without them tax credits are newish (1999) but parents have been getting financial support from govts via the hmrc for decades AND generations DID NOT survive, as now people died as a result of poverty inc children

My parents raised my brother and I without state handouts so I doubt they would be ashamed of my views

oh really? So they didn't take their family allowance? (Introduced 1945) Or free school milk (introduced 1900's), repaid their tax breaks as a (I'm guessing) married couple? Or any of the other hmrc funnelled support that has been in place since around the early 20th century

Unplanned pregnancy/contraceptive failure has always and will always happen, people's circumstances can change. I take it those of you that are so quick to criticise the op are celibate unless you can afford another mouth to feed? No thought not.

More likely you've never experience a big change in circumstance like bereavement of a spouse, redundancy, accident or illness causing long term inability to work, living in an area that's lacking investment in employment/business or worse investment is being withdrawn.

"Same as working people have to do" what makes you think it's not working people affected? Wages aren't keeping up with inflation, families with 2 parents both working are using food banks ffs!!

"I don't know a single person who disagrees with the new cap. It's a very sensible and obvious solution." Do you SERIOUSLY not know ANYONE struggling financially - where do you live?! I highly recommend you learn more about your local food bank, shelter office, cab, places of worship...

There's also virtually NO consideration given to women pregnant with their 3rd+ child as a result of rape, dv or reproductive coercion. Watching question time now 8 PAGE DOCUMENT to fill in if you were raped/coerced rightly described as 'barbaric' by Gerard coyne.

"I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this (that people earning over tax credit threshold are comfortable) Its easy to say that those who earn a certain amount are 'comfortable' but, honestly, after mortagage, bills, student loans, council tax, car costs, childcare costs, food, clothing etc"

My answer to that is the type of answer those on benefits get:

Get a smaller cheaper house (inc cheaper council tax)
Reduce your bills
Use the bus
Find somewhere cheaper for childcare
Shop somewhere cheaper for good and only get necessities
Only buy essential clothes.

"I genuinely don't know enough about them." Clearly - so why are you commenting on a thread about one of the cuts then?

"The government is not forcing people to have more children than they can afford." No we'll just see 200,000 children (minimum estimate) living below the bread line and an increase in abortion for financial reasons. Not anti-abortion AM against financial pressure to abort.

"This cut will do NOTHING to stop people 'on benefits' having children. It will just push millions of children further into poverty. It's disgusting" agreed

"parents on up to 100k are going to be given free 30 hours childcare" now THAT is crazy! How much is that worth by the way?

Aspirations - how about decent well paid jobs where you're treated as a human being not a disposable commodity? How about an education system that's not biased toward kids from better off homes? How about a country that properly supports young carers? How about investment in deprived areas? And that's just a few I can think of!

"Minimum wage is what, around 13k a year?

I'd like to see some of the posters here support a family on that." Me too!!

"If you can't or won't work, dont have kids" so sick/disabled shouldn't have kids? Nobody EVER becomes sick/disabled/unemployed AFTER having kids? Ok then!

keepingupwiththejonesys yea your dad worked and your mum worked part time round school hours - there's a massive lack of jobs generally and part time jobs round school hours barely exist anymore my parents did the same, BUT my mum especially realises it's NOT like that now. The cost of living in relation to pay is a MUCH wider gap now, housing prices v wages MUCH wider gap now.

"My parents got CB but that's it"
how old are you? When were you raised? Ah the 90's a time of economic boom (after the recession so from the year you were born actually) when there were more jobs, cheaper housing, low inflation and inflation linked benefits. I'm about the same age as your parents I'd guess, was living in the south east at the time, was never out of work in the 90's (aside from when at uni). John major increased child benefit saying it was a strong element of Tory policy at that time. Tax credits have been around since you were 7/8 so if your parents didn't get them they must have had high enough income not to need them. In fact according to the Spring 1999 budget they must have been higher rate tax payers.

"If my dad had earned a tiny bit less they'd have got tax credits" confirmation he at least was a higher rate tax payer.

free school milk (introduced 1900's), or their tax breaks as a (I'm guessing) married couple? Or any of the other hmrc funnelled support that has been in place since around the early 20th century

"I know if I knew I couldn't afford to have kids I wouldnt because I wouldn't wants them to suffer." So if you already had 2 and couldn't afford another independently you'd either be celibate (excepting rape or reproductive coercion which is virtually impossible to prove), or have an abortion or if the father left you up shit creek or you became disabled/sick you'd put them up for adoption? Or if one of the children become disabled/sick you'd put them up for adoption so you could continue to work or one of the healthy kids so you would be eligible?

"Man has 2 kids with wife 1 , leaves her and gets with new woman who already had 2 children but he has one child with her?"

Actually a better questions is 'man has 2 kids with wife 1, leaves and has 3rd child with wife 2 (wife 2's second child) then leaves again and has 4th child with wife 3 - not penalised, in fact has to pay LESS maintenance to wife 1. The women can't have more children but he can have as many as he likes. What century is this again?

"When we make cuts and cheer the cuts on because we don't receive any help we are only taking away our own safety net" exactly A you never know what's round the country B it's letting divide and conquer work! It's a distraction from the people REALLY costing the country money!

"people stating they can't survive with these new cuts how come other people can??!" They're NOT SURVIVING, people are DYING as a direct result of the cuts.

"Two children should be enough for anyone. Some people can't even have one." Can you not see the irony there? Families with more than 2 children are easily balanced out by those who are (either by choice or not) without children or only have the one (I only have one)

Worth noting China's restriction on number of children worked REALLY well

The Tory rep on question time tonight was asked directly where the money from the cuts was going and she struggled to answer (and the answer was bull!)

Babyblues have you EVER experienced as a parent real hardship? I mean missing meals so you can feed your kids? going without sanitary wear? Suffering longer with an illness because you can't afford to go to gp and it's you that's sick not the kids and it's not something infectious? Ah you're not a parent yet so that would be NO! THAT is the reality just now for many! Also very sceptical what you claim about your own sister given so many genuine claimants are being treated like shit just now!

"They have four kids. And the cuts are benefits for only two children so I'm guessing it will be cut in half" and incapable of reading properly too or listening to the news - children already here not included in the cuts unless there's a change in circs necessitating a new claim.

"Single parents can work." Lp here, yes we can I have but it's bloody hard! Not always possible, for a multitude of reasons.

"And the same for people with a child with a disability" are you fucking kidding me? So a lone parent with a severely disabled child needing 24/7 care can work? Because yea there's LOADS of care support you are completely clueless!

"Im not a financial expert" no shit Sherlock!

"Which is why I save a lot" people barely making ends meet can't save!! Also do you have ANY IDEA how much privately funded care costs?!

"You wouldn't be able to afford it without your dh" How would you cope if the worst happened and your dh died tomorrow? It's a huge shock and you suffer mh issues as a result affecting your ability to work - what then?

"Bullshit funnyonion" - seconded!

"My understanding of the fact that a 3rd child currently paid for, would never be entitled to tax credits again, if the parents stopped claiming temporarily, is that it is another barrier to work" exactly right. It's already a nightmare if on benefits & fit to work because when you start work everything stopped immediately but if circs change and need benefits again you can wait months before you see a penny! Also an issue if you need benefits while working as everything is stopped while they 'recalculate' - then add in the farce that is the change to UC.

I think the problem you will have here is that our parents are starting to have the same view you are saying they wouldn't be proud of!

When you watch your children struggle because they are trying to work as many hours as requested to pay their bills and their rent and whatever else they need to pay off, that they simply cannot afford to accidently have even one child! Especially if they dare to stay with the dad and want to put in a joint claim for any help that they deserve!

But if you just pop out loads of kids and stay a single parent not working you will get a lovely flat/house to live in, you get free part time childcare that then goes up to full time childcare which these people do use! So their children arnt being parented 24/7... you then get every other handout going which doesnt just pay for necessities but all the luxury items that the couple trying to work their way through having 1 child cannot afford.

This is where the system is broken... parents are watching their hardworking kids suffer and so understand the frustration massively held by our generation struggling to work and have kids because we get nothing whilst the benefit claimers get everything

This thread is final proof that MN has become the Daily Mail forum

If you're all so jealous of these imaginary people popping out kids while living a life of luxury free of charge, be my guest and sign up. It's not a private members club.

Why the arguments about having NO children if you can't afford them? You'll still get ctc for 2 children! Isn't that enough? The argument here is ridiculous!

While I do agree that something needed to be done about the benefits bill I don't think this is right

I think it might have been fairer to say stop tax credits at two DC for those not in employment, but still pay out for those working. Giving an incentive to work?