Child tax credit is it true ?

[Coreynkayden]

Iv seen people sharing things about no money will be giving to families that are expecting there 3rd child after today does anybody know if this is true ?? I understand price cuts to help but i dnt see how me and my kids are going to suvive on the money i get wen my baby is here we only jst manage now :(

My point was not to berate working single mothers in any way... it was to simply point out that choosing not to work and use raising ur child as an excuse does not mean hard working people have to foot the bill for it.

But you made a point about what I'd said about the LHA and said do I care , do I fuck! I work full time and your comment was kind of berating , my point is on my salary I should be entitled to £224 a month housing benefit but as their LHA is unrealistic I get £12 a fortnight. Basically your screwed if you do screwed it you don't!

Sorry i missunderstood Desperate i thought you meant you were not working and it was £200 short.

Your right the whole system is fucked and its the children that suffer from it...

It is if salaries rose the same way as rent and bills we'd all be laughing. My work hasn't even had the 1% cost of living rise for over 4 years as they can't afford it 🤔. Or even if they changed the tax bracket , i basically get back by tax back still slightly down ! It winds me up that you get free school meals if your income is 16800 or less but only if you don't work at all, if you work full time earning 12000 your not entitled, where's the sense 🙄.

Confused your point did stereotype single parents and the example you gave of a single parent living the life of luxury was down to fraud and not down to money being thrown at them by the govt like you said single parents get.

You are right Desperate salaries should be forced to rise with inflation costs of living. We would not all be laughing but at least a higher amount of the population would be out of the poverty bracket! But again most smaller work places cannot afford it. Also I am from london and when the living wage increase came in it stopped any of us southerners getting any form of increase because of the massive divide in wages from north to south. Which is something not so easily fixed because obviously the cost of living is different. The sad thing is a pay rise used to be a yearly expectation and now I can say in the 7 years I have been working I have never had a pay rise. DH has been working for the same company for over 10 years and has only had a pay rise once last year because he was also under the bracket! The cost of living is going up but the workers see no increase to their wages apart from as you say the small change in the tax bracket!

Good point about the school meals! It just gives people like you that work another kick down when you are spending quite a lot of money a week providing your child with a lovely nutrisciously balanced lunch (which the supermarkets put a surcharge on because they know you want to buy it!... Like child sized apples? Ever noticed how they can be quite expensive when compared to their adult sized counterparts).

Also wouldn't it be nice if there was more funding out there for Mothers to re-train whilst kids were in school so they can get higher funded jobs? I would love to take a few years to re-train and get a little help for it. I know there are adult learning grants but that doesn't cover the costs of rent/mortgage and bills? and then once you have paid all you can for those what covers the cost of the course?... If there was a scheme like this put in place then at least if you are not working because an unskilled job would not pay enough to make you better off working then not at least you would be getting yourself ready to kickstart into a career which would pay you enough at the end of it?

Silly I do have other examples of people I know where there is not fraud involved... But my annoyance was not at single parents in general (so that was ill written of my post to convey that message and I am sorry for that) it was more aimed at the bias of the help you can get as a signle parent as opposed to having both parents. Like just because you have both parents does not guarentee you any better off financially... especially when it comes to housing everyone should be able to have a home ... But besides that as previous posters have said what does need to be put in place is a legal system that means if a Single Mother is struggling because her childs father is not contributing then he needs to be forced to like in USA. Over there you get the money no matter how long it takes them to track the father down.

You'll still get ctc for 2 children! Isn't that enough? The argument here is ridiculous!
Although it obvious costs more to bring up 4 kids instead of 2 kids, I doubt that it actually costs twice as much.

As your family gets bigger, surely the expense per child goes down??

I have one son but if I did have another son and we all lived together in the same house, out housing costs would remain the same and I doubt that my electric, gas and water bills would go up by more than a few pounds.

This thread is really interesting.

I definitely agree that you shouldn't be having more children than you can afford. I'm still not sure how I feel about the tax credit cuts though, just because I'm not sure they are the best solution. Because the reality of having more than two children in low income households is more complicated than simply not having children, therefore, I feel the solution should be a little more complex as well. Before anyone jumps on me for saying that, I am not saying that this is good, I'm just saying it's the reality.

I think we need to remember, while it is an emotive subject, that as frustrating as it might be that parents can keep having children and receiving money for doing so, that it is the children who are most likely to suffer if a family's income goes down. Again, that doesn't mean it's fair, but people getting irate about how they work and get less, it's focusing on the wrong thing IMO. If so many are struggling in society, then we should be scaling up what everyone receives, rather than trying to scale down something that you will only receive if you have a lower income anyway. The bigger picture needs to be looked at, rather than the surface statement of "they work less but get more".

FWIW, I am pregnant with my second child and we will be stopping there, because we feel that anymore would be stretching ourselves too thinly, not just financially but emotionally and in terms of time dedicated to each child's development and wellbeing.

And I do sympathise with "middle" England where 2 people are working full time and finding it no more financially beneficial than someone receiving a large amount of benefits. But it's not the recipient's fault, it's the system. To be honest we fall into that category, but for us it just means I can fullfill my wish of having a SAHP for my children (OH), without feeling guilty that we would be better off with us both working. I also don't believe (not that I think anyone has suggested it, just saying), that there should be more flexibility and support for families with children under 5, because I personally feel that more families should have the option of having a SAHP, rather than being shoehorned into a position where they have to put very young children into full time childcare.

There is sometimes a bit of a culture of "why should someone get more than me when my circumstances are x and theirs are y". I think this sentiment is detrimental, there are positives and negatives to all ways of life and family dynamics, I thin the choice should be available. We only get one life, we are human beings and not commodities or statistics, I really don't get the emphasis of judging people based on whether they contribute to the "system" or not. Surely there are more important things in life to be concerned about?

I read recently that 'contraceptive failures' are (I think it said) 8times more likely to be cited as a reason for pregnancy from the poorest sections of society than from the most affluent. Why is that? I certainly don't think affluent teenagers are having less sex. Is it being used as an excuse? It can't be that young women from poorer backgrounds don't understand how to take the pill or how to use a condom. I was from a poor background and managed to use both successfully for almost 20yrs before deciding to have a baby. I think we need to look at why they want to have multiple babies and why they want to have babies so young. I watched Child of our Time the other night and I was full of admiration for the single mum who had the now 16yr old when she was just 17 herself. She then put herself through university to qualify as a nurse and she clearly wanted more for her daughter. But, she was saying she wanted her daughter to break the cycle by waiting until she was 20 to have a baby. Whereas to me that's just so very young to even contemplate motherhood as very very few 20yr olds can have even a small degree of financial back up.

I read recently that 'contraceptive failures' are (I think it said) 8times more likely to be cited as a reason for pregnancy from the poorest sections of society than from the most affluent
That is actually a really interesting point.

I wonder if GPs are going to have an influx of poorer women (sorry horrible wording) asking to be sterilised now that there is no more CTC for the third child??

Being a working parent is for many people hard going so it is annoying to see people who are capable of working but choose not to receiving generous benefit payouts in the long term. That is where the system went wrong. Paying out for years on end without much pressure on people to get jobs. And I don't think people with extra large families should get a pay rise from the state for every addition to their family. They already get child benefit.

There are some really mean posts on this thread. I won't quote any but the gist is, 'we are poor, they should be poorer'.

It's a sad thing. @coreynkayden if you need budgeting help there is a great credit crunch/money matters board to get advice on managing your income. Best wishes with your pregnancy and future.

"But if you just pop out loads of kids and stay a single parent not working you will get a lovely flat/house to live in, you get free part time childcare that then goes up to full time childcare which these people do use! So their children arnt being parented 24/7... you then get every other handout going which doesnt just pay for necessities but all the luxury items that the couple trying to work their way through having 1 child cannot afford."

Confusedat23
Wtf piece of shite fiction have YOU been watching/reading?! That's bullshit!

Complete and utter fiction. Disgusting.

It may be more fictional nowadays - but 20 years ago it was quite easy to get council accommodation- rent paid and all the rest - young mums had free childcare if they went to college etc

Now there is a housing shortage and it's not so straight forward or easy. Priorities change.

But it takes time for that message to filter through.

I wouldn't want to be living in some of the council estates - they are a disgrace - no shops no library literally nothing for the kids to do, streets full of rubbish etc

The local estate here has a severe damp problem and most of the elderly and young have health issues because of it - and homes can't be heated properly because it doesn't warm up - doesn't sound very cushy does it?

I think there needs to be some sort of balanced view - rather than the exceptions.

That's a load of rubbish. I'm a single young ish parent and I've never been given a council house or given the amount of money to buy luxuries with. I wouldn't expect the taxpayer to pay for my child's care whilst I'm at work or back when I went back to education. I've never had "every handout going", in fact I've only ever claimed child benefits (which most people do anyway). I understand if you are genuinely not able to work but if you can work, then work. I wouldn't expect the taxpayer to pay for my child's care or luxuries because he's my child and my responsibility, not the government.

"I haven't read every single comment but I just wanted to point out that this is actually going to affect existing children at some point" yes! Someone who understands!

"All this sort of thing does is penalise children and the mothers that don't leave" yes!

"It's amazing that the government have never been able to go after men that don't pay for their dc." Yea funny that! Except they could if they bloody wanted to! Child maintenance is ALREADY under hmrc remit. Certainly all the employee non resident fathers (and let's be honest nrps are usually fathers) could have the maintenance deducted at source!

"capping the benifit to a living wage." If you're referring to what the current tories CALL a living wage it's not! How much do YOU need to live on astro?

"It's not right that a non worker should receive more than a worker." Agreed BUT why does THAT mean pushing those not working into poverty rather than paying those in work a DECENT wage that DOESN'T require subsidy from the state? Ie US? There's too many companies with high ups on BILLIONS where they're paying their staff nmw and stitching them up with zero hours or min hours contracts (sidestepping laws on maternity/sick/redundancy rights) but then having them do 'overtime' EVERY WEEK!

"If these cuts to NEW claims for tax credits for third and subsequent children are stopped, what is your solution?"

Make the banks pay back the bailouts - amount £450 BILLION
Close tax avoidance/evasion loopholes - fraud ALONE costs £16 BILLION a year
Cut the crap of giving tax breaks to the ALREADY VERY WEALTHY - some estimates are that SO FAR tax breaks will cost around £75BILLION PER YEAR
Institute an ACTUAL living wage that pays enough to LIVE on WITHOUT govt subsidy - thereby freeing state money for those who need support
BAN zero hours contracts
Clamp down on inflated housing costs.
Make working from home far more acceptable - incentivise genuine employers on this? (And clamp down on the scammers) I and many others I know not working due to ill health/disability COULD work from home

That's SEVEN off the top of my head! And already a saving of £500 BILLION

How much is this cut supposed to be saving? £12 billion

By the way govt own figs - only £2 billion benefit fraud per year.

Coverup890
"I have three children and we get tax credits to top up our wages but even i agree with this" you're benefitting from the system you'd deny others (aka as pulling the ladder up behind you), you won't be getting that money after April 2018, but yea you crack on.

"because we have to pay for EVERYTHING" YOU are NOT paying for everything you GET tax credits! 🙄

Your dh's cousin that you cite as an 'example' yet they're as far as you're aware committing fraud - we're NOT inc those committing fraud! At least I'm bloody not!

"then double up on the contraception... there really is no excuse" rape? Dv? Reproductive coercion? Cos yea that's their own fault! Fucks sake!

How the fuck are gingerbread biased? Are shelter biased too? Save the children? Institute for fiscal studies? Because they ALL say this is going to lead to massive increase in child poverty and suffering.

Every post/thread I've seen on here and elsewhere claiming 'they're living a life of luxury' when you challenge them they have NO EVIDENCE they could have independent finances etc in one case I know of it was revealed the person 'not working' WAS working (nights) AND had won on the lottery and wasn't even on any benefits!!

"These people are the same ones who get annoyed at their neighbour who has a disability but looks fine to them and doesn't deserve DLA." I've had this - my illnesses are 'invisible'

"there needs to be something in place to top up wages of people who work to make it far more attractive to work.. " not from the state though from employers who PROFIT from their employees!

"family will be helping with childcare aren't you lucky not everyone has that as me and DH aren't you lucky to have a supportive dh both work full time aren't you lucky to have full time jobs and we are entitled to nothing aren't you lucky they're well paid jobs even though like you we don't have amazing wages... after paying our bills we have at most £50 a month spare aren't you lucky I don't now and at times when working as a Lp I didn't then either which is nothing in the grand scheme of things! actually £50 is my weekly grocery bill so not nothing at all

"Tax credits have only been going since 2003 anyhow, didn't get them at all when DC was younger" read my posts, go do some research - tax credits around since 1999, changed in 2003 to different names/types, before that since THE 1900's and certainly post war there HAS been help for families from state via tax breaks, family allowance etc

"And it's disingenuous to suggest they're all due to abuse or contraceptive failures." No but many are. And the desire to have children is SO complex. And there's additional psychological areas to understand when it's poor people having children. It's also in part poor contraceptive education.

Confused you DID berate lone parents.

"smaller work places cannot afford it" I was waiting for this argument -
Govt could give them tax breaks direct. They already get vat exemptions etc a similar thing could be applied in this case.

The London argument - it's not just London that's more expensive, there are various parts of U.K. That are more expensive to live in than others. Cities are always more expensive.

"Also wouldn't it be nice if there was more funding out there for Mothers to re-train whilst kids were in school so they can get higher funded jobs?" That'd be great - did you know about the massive cuts to adult education? My nearest college for this type of thing would involve 5 hour round trip and serious transport costs and I'd get home after midnight.

"Like just because you have both parents does not guarentee you any better off financially..." I fucking DARE you to go say that on Lp board! Or better still to ANYONE you know in real life that's a Lp

"I read recently that 'contraceptive failures' are (I think it said) 8times more likely to be cited as a reason for pregnancy from the poorest sections of society than from the most affluent. Why is that?" Lack of education, lack of support, poor access (our nearest sexual health clinic 2 hours away, small town with issues on confidentiality with GP surgeries)

"I was from a poor background and managed to use both successfully for almost 20yrs before deciding to have a baby" I fell pregnant first time at 18 on the pill, taking properly, no abs or other contraindicated meds, no stomach upset. Poor background but intelligent (got a nursing diploma and a BA).

I honestly don't know ANYONE who doesn't WANT to work. I Know people who are job seeking and applying loads and occasionally getting interviews (where I live ave 150 applications per job, just on a local fb page for jobseekers which I'm on to help a friend, most posts notifying a job/that a new place is opening get hundreds of enquiries) people unable to work due to illness/disability (their own or they're carers), people not working as they can't get childcare (not even great childcare just any - huge lack here, most can't child mind as the homes aren't big enough to meet health & safety requirements). Those that are working are mostly working 2-3 part time jobs as there's hardly any full time.

No council houses in my county at all, they were all sold off and never replaced. We only have HA and there are thousands on the waiting list currently 3 properties available and as they're adapted for disability they won't be assigned to non disabled.

Graphista, just by quoting and answering with your own opinion doesn't somehow make your opinions more correct than the opinions of those you're quoting.

Very few people on this thread have suggested that living on benefits equates to a life of luxury. It's precisely because I know how hard it is that I cannot understand why those caught in the trap continue to have more than 2 children and often 4 or 5.

Your own anecdotal evidence that you fell pregnant whilst on the pill doesn't mean the pill is unreliable. Evidence suggests it is 97% effective when taken properly which suggests that very few women taking the pill correctly will fall pregnant. I'm not suggesting you're lying but rather that the evidence suggests your experience is rare. And yet the article I read was saying that a large number of women from deprived backgrounds cite contraceptive failure as the reason for pregnancy. You talk about lack of education and access but taking one tablet at the same time every day isn't difficult nor is taking yourself to the GP then onto the chemist to pick up your free contraception. You say it's complicated but I'd genuinely like to hear why because for me there was nothing complicated about it. I knew from an early age that I had to work my socks off most likely at a level above my natural ability in order to escape the trap of poverty.

And I still think the Richard/Paula strip is overly simplistic. We are living nowhere near the poverty line but I still know very few parents in a position to arrange an internship for their child. Likewise, even with library closures there's an abundance of books in most Sure Start centres. I took 2 of my children to classes at the nearest SS centre 10 or so years ago. Most parents there in that centre slap bang in the middle of a deprived area were parents like me who had travelled 3m from where we lived to access the great range of classes. Very few local women most of whom could have walked to the centre ever used it despite it being well publicised locally and brought to their attention at baby clinic etc. I think a lots of these issues are all tied together but despite growing up in what was probably in many ways an even more impoverished situation than a lot of these mums (Notts pit village during the strike) I still struggle to understand a lot of the whys.

I didn't claim my opinion more correct. I stated facts that prove the opinions of some others to be incorrect.

Several have outright SAID life on benefits is luxurious while clearly having no experience of it.

It's complicated because not everyone has been educated properly on contraceptive use, not everyone has the intellect to understand the information, not everyone has easy access to GP/pharmacy/sexual health clinic (as I've already said, no sexual health clinic in my county and there's a local issue with confidentiality which puts young women in particular off going to GP/pharmacy re contraception), not all women have had the best start in life, some young women/girls sadly get pregnant in order to escape very unhappy/abusive homes, to feel worthy, because they think it's the only thing they'll ever be any good at...

Taking one tablet at the same time every day can be difficult if you have a chaotic/abusive home life that's beyond your control.

Surely you realise the Richard/Paula strip is simplistic because it needs to be? Partly because of its format, partly because there are ignorant people who just don't get it.

The cuts have also affected sure start centres and many have been closed. Here it's home start, nearest an hour away - by train.

I'm a working professional in my 30s who doesn't have any children yet pays all the tax under the sun after working a 60-70 hour week. But you know what? I'd rather my tax go to support children than to those fking cting Tory b**a to paint up their 30 bedroom mansions, because the budget for THAT never seems to go down.

I hope you will all be supporting the free school meals for all children regardless of income, particularly those who seem to think the poor are living the high life on their £70 a week

*STOP, PEOPLE! STOP.
*
Enough.

Someone said at the start of this thread: "the OP fell pregnant while on the coil"

It wasn't a deliberate choice.

Yet it didn't stop women piling on with their condemnation. Shame on you.

She didn't choose to be pregnant, she took really good precautions.

To the OP.

Congratulations on your new pregnancy. I'm sorry you have financial worries like this, life would be so much easier if we could navigate every circumstance! But you WILL get through this. Remember you have your children for life, it's only a matter of time before they will support themselves.

I am of a generation where Mum didn't work, there were no benefits other than child benefit, or at least if there were my parents didn't claim them. We lived on the breadline, which was hard, but you know what? It gave me a strength and determination that I believe I wouldn't have had the same way otherwise. I know it is possible to exist on next to nothing. Somehow Mum and Dad always managed a camping holiday even just for a few days. They were experts in free day trips out. We never went to the theme parks and I couldn't join expensive clubs, we couldn't even afford a dog. My school friends could afford meals out to Pizza Hut but my friends had to come to my house and have food from our kitchen. Hey didn't seem to mind!

But I have memories of such fantastic summer holidays and Christmases. Truly magical. Our Christmas tree was a table-top size with the same trimmings every year, but Mum used to dim the light and read magical stories as we gathered round the tree, gazing in wonder and excitement at those tiny little coloured lights.

Mum knew where to buy the cheapest of everything. It's true it meant visiting several shops each week, but it was worth it and she saved a lot of money buying second hand clothes for us. Plus of course there were hand-me-downs too. My local council has a clothes bank with access to people on certain benefits, I wonder if you'd qualify for that?

I wasn't bought a new bike - everything was second hand. I wasn't bought a car, but I bought my own after saving my own money. Your children will be able to have a job or paper round to pay their way. All of my friends were ferried around by their parents but I was independent and made my own way everywhere - unless of course everyone else happened to be going that same direction in the family car!

My Mum is still frugal, even though she doesn't need to be anymore now. She told me recently of Jack Monroe, the women who cooked up some amazing meals from tinned food, at such a cheap price she was able to feed herself and her son on about a tenner a week or something crazy like that. There was a programme with her cooking for some top chefs, and they were eating her food extremely highly, and were shocked when she revealed it was all from tinned food. It might be worth grabbing her book from the library - get them to order it in (another trick to save money so you don't pay out unnecessarily!).

Good luck op, it will be ok in the end. It's not what you wanted but the most important hing is you're there for your kids, loving and guiding them through life. That's something money constantly buy!

Well put safebet 👏

SafeBet, I think most people have sympathy with the OP. I don't even agree with this policy partly because i don't think it will work as the deterrent the government want, partly because it's just a nominal saving and partly because plunging already poor families into further levels of deprivation cannot be a good thing for anyone least if all them.

My issue is how we seem to be so dismissive of those who are not necessarily professional and comfortable. They are often both working long hours and do feel, rightly or wrongly, that their views are being ignored. It's the main reason we're now leaving the EU and I say all this as a professional, comfortable Remainer.

Graphista Fri 07-Apr-17 23:16:04 "I haven't read every single comment but I just wanted to point out that this is actually going to affect existing children at some point" yes!
Why don't you explain how it is going to affect existing children rather than just launch a tirade??

you won't be getting that money after April 2018#
Why are you saying that CoverUp 820 won't get this money after April 2018???

What money are you talking about CTC??

What is supposedly having in April 2018??