Can't bear this anymore, is termination at 15 16 weeks just going to make it all worse?

[Sleeplessinnorthlondon]

I'm going to delete my profile soon as so ashamed of all of what's happened but desperate for any advice anyone can offer. In summary, conceived when thought couldn't, just about to start ivf, and didn't know. Had two different due dates from different scans but looks like could have drunk heavily 16, 17 and 18 dpo. Stopped as soon as found out but can't shake the guilt despite doctors all telling me it would probably be fine. Would never have terminated for downs or any condition the child was going to have anyway, but cannot bear idea of having spoilt life chances of child that would have been healthy through stupidity. Tried counselling, midwife, friends, all been so kind but can't shake terror and guilt and suspect will never shift and will be terrible mother when born as so anxious and guilty. Just can't bear any of this any more, none of the help I've tried to access is working and Marie stopes have said they can organise an abortion this week. Will mean hurting friends, family and above all darling darling husband but he has said will support me if it's the only way forward. So so desolate and terrified, everyone around me saying this is mental health issue not physical and probably right but in no state to bring child into the world like this anyway. Has anyone been in the same boat? Did the termination help or make it worse? Please help me.

Sorry I posted that too quickly, my friends anxiety started when she ate too much parsley, I know you might laugh at that but she googled that it can cause damage to a baby so she got into a complete state and started drinking. It started off with such a small thing and just escalated.
She almost had a termination at 16 weeks but got help and I just wanted to say that the baby was perfect as mentioned above and she is totally devoted to her child now, she is a fantastic mother.
If she had terminated she would never ever ever have gotten over it, because it would have been done out of fear. I hope you get some help today. There is no risk at all to your baby, you have done nothing wrong.

sleepless here is an article:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/08/pregnant-women-hype-binge-drinking-abortion

And a quote from it: "Yet a large-scale study of women conducted by Danish researchers in 2012 found that binge drinking had â??had no significant effect on neuro-development of children aged five yearsâ??.

Other evidence about binge drinking in early pregnancy suggests that if it Dora have an effect, the effect will be an early miscarriage, not long term problems. FAS happens to the children of alcoholics. www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/11146012/Binge-drinking-and-pregnancy-5-myths-busted.html

Also, your evidence says that 3-8 weeks after conception is key. You say you were binge drinking at 18dpo. This is just over 2 weeks after conception but less that 3 weeks.

You are being irrational. For every piece of evidence you find, there are 10 pieces of evidence contradicting it. You are believing only the evidence which confirms what you believe and ignoring that which doesn't. If you are going to make an informed choice, you have to consider this more objectively. The fact that you can't shows you are being guided by your anxiety which is, by nature, irrational.

I hope you find a way to make peace with this. You should speak honestly to a doctor. Would a scan showing healthy development help you realise everything is fine?

I think I've been a bit blunt so I also want to send you a hug and some . You have to stop torturing yourself.

I'll throw my hat in the ring as well, as another mum who got absolutely plastered before knowing I was pregnant with my DD. It was a planned pregnancy but I was tracing ovulation and was convinced I hadn't ovulated so couldn't possibly be pregnant. At about DPO 17 (roughly) we had friends round and got through MANY bottles of wine between us.
I also continued to drink small amounts occasionally throughout my pregnancy, as I don't feel that there is any strong evidence for total abstinence. My DD is now 4 months old and absolutely perfect. I appreciate its early but everyone comments on how bright, alert and cheeky she is already, and she's hitting all her physical milestones perfectly, too.
There are many 'levels' of evidence out there, with varying strengths attached to them. There is an excellent book called Expecting Better by Emily Oster, which goes through the evidence for the various recommendations and myths, discussing how strong it is. It really helped my anxiety, as I was an absurd wreck at times during my pregnancy.

You're right, you're right. As soon as services open tmrw will try to get esrliest possible appt.

With the best will in the world I think you've made your decision so I'm confused why you've posted here. You've been given excellent evidence but you are choosing to ignore it. You must realise you are being irrational. Please believe the many many mothers that have posted and shown you it really really doesn't matter

Listen to Skipton, honey.

I also drank like a fish during the supposedly "crucial" times and DS is the cleverest in his class (from his teacher, not me). And he's certainly the biggest!

This is not you in your right mind. This is hormonal. It will pass. I had awful PND with my first and I thought I'd never be myself again, but I was. You will be too.

I love Emily oster - in fairness she says binge drinking dangerous and also after two weeks after conception all or nothing phase of damage over.

I have 4 DC and, due to unpredictable periods I had no idea I was pregnant with DC3 until 8-9 weeks. At approx 4-5 weeks I went to Ibiza with girl friends. I drank far more than was sensible every day for the whole week, I ate shed loads of junk food, I didn't get enough rest etc.
And my daughter is absolutely perfect in every way.
She is sitting her A levels, is expected to go off to uni in September, is gorgeous funny and a sheer delight.
Please don't do anything rash.

Sleepless you do sound a bit better than earlier. I'm glad you seem to be thinking more clearly. Good luck tomorrow x

I'm another one who didn't know - but op have you heard of bias confirmation ? That's what's happening honey. Yes I honestly believe a termination would make it worse. You are worried now you have hurt your baby. You love this baby already. Can you be honest about how you would feel knowing you definitely ended the pregnancy?

You do need help. I feel so sorry for you; I hope you do find a way through. Please don't leave mn.

sleepless I please Google PANDAS and give them a call, I think that's its completely rational to be worried about drinking affecting the baby, but the extent to which you are worrying is not. Prenatal depression and anxiety can creep in disguised by pregnancy hormones. Don't let it consume you and trick you into making a decision that you would ultimately regret.

As others have said, early on in pregnancy its "all or nothing". So (and I'm really sorry for being blunt) the fact that there was a baby at your 12 week scan suggests that your drinking didn't affect it.

I am neither for or against abortion as I believe that every situation is different but in your case I fear that never knowing if you had terminated a healthy baby would torment you.

As you have said, symptoms may not appear until after the birth, but this is true of many illnesses, diseases and disorders that can just manifest themselves out of the blue and once you meet your baby you will love them regardless, doing whatever you need to do for them.

Finally, I've worked with a boy whose birth mother battled with drugs and alcohol throughout her pregnancy. He suffered withdrawal symptoms when he was born and had a difficult start in life but when I met him at 6 he was a headstrong, cheeky bright little chap and the love between him and his adoptive parents was something to behold.

If the chances of FAS were that high, virtually everyone born in Europe before tea and coffee were imported would have been born with it because people drank beer or wine constantly.

Women drank during pregnancy regularly until only very recently. Many women still do.

The statistics are in your favor. Devora's #2 statement is very true.

Get help. Please.

Sleepless, please stop reading these articles and papers online. They are not helping you. They are fuelling your anxiety and making you paranoid. The ironic thing is that stress is probably worse for you and baby than a few days' drinking in early pregnancy. Please address your anxiety, embrace this wonderful event and enjoy your pregnancy.

Reading one of the articles and giving it the benefit of the doubt, it seems to say that the damage is usually in causing miscarriage, heart valve problems or some facial feature change. Well you didn't miscarry. The heart valves will have been checked at your 12 week scan. Which leaves minor facial changes as the only and incredibly unlikely potential 'defect'.
Given the vanishingly small possibility that you might have induced a cosmetic change is it worth a lifetime of guilt for you to terminate?
Hopefully you'll get some help tomorrow. Don't hide your anxiety - they need to hear it.

Sleepless... Sweetie - these links you are posting do not give medical information or tested data against any reasonable sample sizes. None of them are from the UK or contain any information from the NHS or other recognised medical sources.

You might as well walk into your local chippy and do a poll of what the customers in there think. These articles you have posted are not related to you, or to your situation. The first one is regarding prescription drugs, not even alcohol. You need to stop doing this to yourself.

Skiptonlass has told you the facts using the benefit of her education and experience. We have all shared with you our knowledge and our similar experiences.

It seems like you are suffering from an intrusive thought and the way you are coping with the intrusive though is by seeking reassurance which you are getting, or not, from the internet and from this thread.

The reassurance seeking will only work temporarily though lovely as once you have been reassured, you will feel better only until the intrusive thought comes back to you. At which point the cycle of looking for reassurance starts again. As a person has approximately 50,000 thoughts per day, this is why it is taking up a lot of your time and causing you significant anxiety.

Does this sound familiar to you?

If so, this is a typical OCD type thought process - this is coming from someone who has suffered from severe OCD and has had it treated in pregnancy.

This is a mental health problem - I am sure that there is nothing physically wrong with you or your baby. You need to try to stop the reassurance seeking for tonight if you can - at least stop Googling!

Get some help as soon as you can tomorrow too, even if it means going to your GP and Midwife tomorrow and refusing to leave until you have some contacts for people who can help you.

Hey hope you're feeling better and get some professional advice. If it's any help I drank very heavily during the crucial period (false negative test led to that) and also did a marathon - bambino has turned out fine. Easy to say I know but try not to worry especially if scans are fine

Sleepless - I feel like an idiot 'diagnosing' something over the internet - but the way you are talking about this, you sound exactly like a friend of mine who has OCD and severe anxiety.

She can know, rationally, that her fear isn't true, but her mind keeps going back to it over and over, and she can't get it out of her head.

Have you ever had problems like OCD or intrusive thoughts before?

x-post with Hippymama...

I was told I was so unlikely to get pregnant contraception was a waste of time. I didn't know I was pregnant and not only had wine on numerous occasions (because of DH's work we had a busy social life then) but also took Ponstan because I put the cramping and odd bleeding down to the stress of adapting to being told I was unlikely to get pregnant and I didn't want to be in pain at the events! DS was absolutely fine and this summer will graduate with a Ph.D. in Astrophysics from Cambridge. Like you I was absolutely terrified that the combination of the wine and Ponstan would have done something terrible to DS - despite reassurances from several doctors/consultants.

I'm glad you are feeling a bit calmer.

You sound very unwell lovely. I would say more counselling personally.

I don't know if this will help or not. Please understand I am saying this to try and help, this is not a 'consider how lucky you are' thing as you are obviously struggling hugely.

I had a termination at 22 weeks in jan. we found out fairly late along that our much planned for (as is your baby) dd2 had Edwards. Edwards is incompatible with life (especially the abnormalities our dd2 was showing) so our choice was termination, continue with a likely stillbirth at some point, if she made it to term watching as she slowly died in lots of pain.

I tell you this because ours was a very black and white situation (as far as is in this cases) our dd2 was going to die at some point.

We decided on a termination. I know logically that we have don't the right thing, I truly believe that. However, 4 months on I am still wracked with guilt, my illogical emotions tell me I didn't give her a chance. I remember turning up to the hospital to have the injection to stop her heart and hoping that they would tell me shed died.

I am still in a very bad way dealing with the loss of our dd and the fact that I did it.

I tell you this because we pretty much had no real choice. It was a choice of degrees and doing what we could to save her suffering.

You are in a different position. I would never tell you what to do or what would be best for you. I just wanted to show you some of the distress terminating a very unhealthy, 'unviable' baby has caused for us.

There is a very, very high chance your baby is absolutely fine.

I really hope you manage to find a way through this, it sounds like you are suffering horrendously

I'm a clinical psychologist and have worked with children affected by FAS. Absolutely none of the parents had your drinking profile. They were all serious alcoholics.

I have also worked with many highly anxious people, who believe their own anxieties and worries more than facts. This is you right now. I don't believe in diagnosis via MN threads, so will avoid that. But your reaction is indicative of a mental health problem, which no doubt would be made worse by the lifetime of guilt and regret that would follow terminating your longed for child because of an extremely low risk of harm. Your anxiety is disproportionate - some concern would be valid, but termination because of this? No. Completely irrational. And I wonder if this is perhaps linked to the shock of becoming pregnant naturally.

We all like to feel in control. Pregnancy challenges that in all of us. You have to surrender to so many things in pregnancy and parenthood. This is only the beginning! It is a wonderful, terrifying, guilt tripping adventure that you simply can't back out of now, not for these reasons.

Seek help. Learn to accept uncertainty. Move on. Relax. Your baby will definitely appreciate that. And most of all, good luck.

And stop googling and believing crap that your read on the Internet. This is your baby, your body, your life. You're not a statistic.

OP please do not terminate your baby. You are suffering with a mental health issue. Stay away from google, a lot of studies are scare mongering and taken out of context. I have suffered from anxiety and have been where you are. Please see the GP or access some councellibg ASAP. I went private in the end and found an amazing woman who really helped me. Sertraline has also made a massive difference to my life, I took it all the way through pregnancy and breast feeding, it's safe to use.

Just anecdotally....

I had a TFMR at the stage you are now due to anecephaly, I had a haemorrhage, got an infection and nearly died. This lead to post traumatic stress disorder. It is not a nice procedure to go through. The anecephaly was completely random, I didn't drink, smoke, take drugs as was ttc. I was taking my pregnancy vitamins and folic acid for 3 months before conception and all the way through the first 14 weeks. It is caused by folic acid deficiency, I did everything right, including taking folic acid and I still happened.

When I had DS I was 18 and had the contraceptive injection so had no idea I was pregnant until 8 weeks. In the first 8 weeks I was binge drinking 4 times a week and taking magic mushrooms and ecstasy and smoking 20+ a day. I was horrified when I found out I was pregnant, I sobbed to my midwife who very firmly told me that It wasn't ideal but to get over it! DS is now 7 and absolutely fine in every single way. The only issue he has ever had is glue ear. He's never even had a cold! And he is a little maths genius, so it hasn't hurt his IQ or concentration. He has no behaviour issues either.

One of my close friends has a mother who is an alcoholic, has always been an alcoholic, but had 3 healthy children despite drinking litres of cheap cider and wine a day while pregnant. And she was a heavy smoker who had the occasional joint.

Please see how random all these things are. You cannot terminate a healthy baby that is wanted by both you and your husband because of unfounded fears you have.

I had no idea I was pregnant and drank for the first 8 weeks and ate all the things you are advised not to eat.

DS is now almost 6 months and a absolutely perfect. TBH I never worried about it. I asked the question and the GP told me to not even think about it- chance was infinitesimal. Never thought about it again.

You have got this completely out of proportion- it is a mental health issue, not a risk to the baby from you having had a drink.

Please don't terminate your baby. He or she is fine and you are going to have a wonderful time with your little family.

Before we became a nation of tea drinkers, we all lived on booze as our main source of liquid. We weren't a nation of neurologically damaged individuals. From what history tells me, we were a highly productive, successful society.

Drinking is not the issue here. Perhaps shock or feeling out of control is. Address those issues and don't end a life because of them.

I dont think you are very well either i think you sound very anxious and stressed googiling wost case scenarios i think you should speak to a Dr before you make a decision fwiw i drank with dd1 i had a bleed so i thought it was my period i didnt find out till 12/13 week dd was fine not that it matters i dont think anybodies advice will help you please speak to your Dr about your anxiety and general mental well being