shock at the drinking in pregnancy thread

[alle01]

i have been reading for the last couple of days, and posted a couple of times in this thread. i found shocking that people encourage pregnant women to drink, based on the evidence that they did and nothing happened to them, and there is no research that probes this is a risky behaviour.
well, there isn't research because it would be unethical to do research that may put at risk unborn children, but there is plenty of research that probes that alcohol is damaging in adults, and children cannot really process it until at least 17/18 yo, plenty of cases of alcohol poisoning in young adolescents as well, it is also known that the placenta does not filter alcohol, among other substances.
i would like to know what kind of benefit it is suppose to bring to the pregnancy and baby, that is so worth it, and what the difference is with people that say they smoke because the anxiety of no smoking is more damaging to the baby than the nicotine itself, or any other drug, cocaine maybe...
what is the choice, do what you can to ensure you have a healthy baby, or indulge yourself for five minutes?

'8 units a week sound a lot to me, pregnant or not.'

then don't drink that much.

4

Thank god for SGB (and others)

OP, and any other passing judgement...What would you have said to me enjoing my nighly glass of wine?

Honestly?

Go on. I can take it.

Would it interest you to know that my DS is bright, funny (actually a comedian in the making lol), empathetic...and ...err...nothing wrong with him? Had a report that places him in the top 10 of his class....

He's four. He has no lasting effects from my one glass or so a night. If I lived where wmy mum came from I would have consumed waaaay more due to cultural norms

I so agree with SGB

personally, i wouldn't moralise about the occasional drink in pregnancy. but regular, moderate drinking in pregnancy is something else. there is an increased risk of damage, stillbirth and miscarriage and you can bleat on about misogony etc until the cows come home (as some people have for years on MN) and bold your text as much as you fancy, but that risk won't go away.

No, the risk will not go away. The point is - and always will be - that the vast, vast majority of people in this situation weigh up the risk and decide they are happy with it.

What part of this do people so struggle to understand?

Our bodies, our risk-assessment, our decision.

Credit us with a little bit of nous, intelligence and right to autonomy.

The phrase 'just curious' is always so telling. 'Just - you know - curious about you types and why exactly you're not as well-behaved as me.'

It's like starting a notice with the words: 'polite notice' - always gets my back up. We all get the dying-to-be-rude sentiment behind it.

Blinks, the risk is small. Small enough for many people to decide it's worth taking. As with many other risks (working with computers, eating soft cheese, driving a car, going on a plane). No one is making you take a risk you are uncomfortable with, people are pointing out that they don't give a toss for your opinion about what they should do with their lives - and if your next controlling, whining technique is to say that 'taxpayers' money' might have to contribute to the care of babies born with severe foetal alchol syndrome (of which there are not many), then how do you feel about your taxes paying for the care of people who have injured themselves doing extreme sports, or taking drugs?

I too find the OP very insulting and sanctimonious.
I had a very ocassional glass of wine in both my pg's. probably about 3 or 4 in each pg.
The are risks in almost everything you do. best you don't step poutside your house ? your not driving are you ? oh no if you stay inside your house theres a risk of a house fire.
Its called risk assesment. lots of people let their babies sleep outside, in the back garden, you know. some don't like it. others have considered the risks and think its o.k.

OP has disappeared. quite some time ago. hardly a surprise.

a few drinks here and there is insignificant but regular moderate drinking in pregnancy has a significant risk of damage.

there has been alot of research done to prove an increased risk of miscarriage and stillbirth.

FAS is more likely in heavy drinkers but has been known to occur in lighter drinkers.

of course it's up to you but don't peddle mistruths, just because you drank in pregnancy and your kid's fine.

smoking, taking drugs and drinking in pregnancy is irresponsible but there are gradients of risk. it's up to you how much of a risk you want to take.

and SGB, you need a change of writing technique. it's boring reading the same shtick all the time.

Blinks - you said it yourself - it's up to us how much risk we want to take.

That's really the final word on it, isn't it?

You're the one peddling mistruths, blinks. There is no proof whatsoever that drinking inevitably leads to foetal damage - no studies have been done that clearly demonstrated it was alcohol rather than genetics/environmental pollution/inadequate maternity care that led to damage - and much of the broad specturm 'damage' that is alleged to be caused by alcohol abuse is, er, not damage but difference (some children learn to walk/talk/read slightly later than others but catch up, some people are clumsier/cleverer than others).
People who keep banging on about how pregnant women should behave are either gullible twats insistent that Government Is Always Right (despite some of the advice being contradictory), those who feel that blaming everything on maternal behaviour is a way to avoid spending more money on maternity care, and those who have a deep and intense fear of female autonomy - because if women are allowed to make their own choices, who will do the shitwork for no money?

well not if people are advising other pregnant mothers that it's 'fine' to drink moderately in pregnancy and the risk is tiny.

that's not true and if it were moderate/light but regular smoking or drug use, the backlash would be bigger.

but, no- wine is 'fine'. why's that? because it's the drink of choice for the educated middle classes? and we all know THEY know everything.

"there has been alot of research done to prove an increased risk of miscarriage and stillbirth."

Can you link please blinks?

Been looking on Cochrane, they got nowt.

blinks what are you basing your views on, please.
is it based on evidence or studies ?

sure.

interesting reading here with references at bottom

i linked to an earlier (rat) study here about the potential dangers of moderate drinking in pregnancy.

same researcher, Charles R Goodlett different article on Mechanisms of Alcohol-Induced Damage to the Developing Nervous System here

there are obviously lots more papers on the subject but these are very readable.

Here's my advice. Find a small wine glass. Measure out 125ml of water in a jug. Fill wine glass with this measure of water. Draw line on glass with indelible pen. Use this glass twice a week for one measure of wine each time. Try not to drink very fruity Australian wines with a high volume. Look at labels and find lower volume wines. Pay for quality--you are drinking less, after all.

Relax. Sip your wine slowly. Enjoy it.

"A 2001 study found that 6- and 7-year-old children of mothers who had as little as one drink a week during pregnancy were more likely than children of non-drinkers to have behavior problems, such as aggressive and delinquent behaviors. These researchers found that children whose mothers drank any alcohol during pregnancy were more than three times as likely as unexposed children to demonstrate delinquent behaviors (9). "

so a woman who had any drink, one drink, one glass of wine is more likely to have delinquent children.
I find this hard to accept.
Oh, so i had 3 glasses of wine in my whole pg. that explains why my 6 yr old has zero respones to rewards or punishements and is a nightmare at home, but is a treasure at school.

That must be it, then.

i have read all the links blinks. i guess their definitions of light or moderate drinking is different to mine.
they still seem to focus on binge, or numerous units per week. but i don't think that many of us would consider their definitions of 'light' as our definitions of 'light'.
Thats not MY idea of light.

I've posted this link before, but I like this article by Zoe Williams www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/may/29/health.medicineandhealth where she writes amusingly about Listeria Hysteria and Woman Policing among other things.

it's safe to say the less you drink during pregnancy, the better.

increased alcohol intake increases risk of damage. it's not that difficult.

same as smoking. and drugs.

my idea of moderate/light drinking is drinking regularly but in small amounts.

Interesting articles here and slides from the seminar here

One slide in particular:
The move to recommend abstinence is notable for two connected reasons:

• It runs against the general grain of British health advice which is represented as ?evidence based? and tends to focus on risk-awareness/risk-reduction (not ?saying no?).

- It was justified on grounds that were manifestly not evidence based

I don't agree, blinks. It is not 'safe to say the less you drink during pg the better' because there is no evidence that the odd drink during pg is any more harmful than not drinking at all.

Im 36 weeks pregnant and I haven't touched a drop of alcohol since before I was pregnant, Its not bothered me and Ive been fine. Its always fustrated me those who drink excessively throughout their pregnancies.
Drug and alcohol abuse throughout pregnancy can affect your unborn childs cognitive ability.

I choose to minimilise the risks I take, however I have horses and some people would think I was reckless to continue riding up until 26 weeks, although I had still reduced the risks by only riding my older horse and only walking, however as they are unpredictable theres still a risk. We make decisions and we need to live with them.

Splatt I totally agree with you! It's so easy to start getting anxious about what not to do! I was worried in my first pregnancy about nail polish, painting the nursery, dyeing my hair etc etc. When my mum had me and my brother there were no scans, no advice on what not to eat/do etc, and I'm sure they a had much more relaxed time during pregnancy as a result.
I think it's about not taking unneccesary risks and being sensible. I had runny eggs before I knew I was pregnant, the chances of getting ill are pretty slim (If I think of the amount of times I've had them in my life and never caught salmonella) but of course now I won't have any till baby is born, just because I know I'm reducing the risks -and having had 2 bouts of illness already (I'm only 12wks) I don't really want to have my head down the toilet bowl again either!

As for drinking, if I fancy a small glass a week (at the moment I'm totally not interested in wine or beer) then I will savour it slowly as I do my daily coffee (not decaf) which I've cut down to one. But my sister in law had up to 4 cups of coffee a day and has 3 very healthy children. I think people should do what they feel is right.