shock at the drinking in pregnancy thread

[alle01]

i have been reading for the last couple of days, and posted a couple of times in this thread. i found shocking that people encourage pregnant women to drink, based on the evidence that they did and nothing happened to them, and there is no research that probes this is a risky behaviour.
well, there isn't research because it would be unethical to do research that may put at risk unborn children, but there is plenty of research that probes that alcohol is damaging in adults, and children cannot really process it until at least 17/18 yo, plenty of cases of alcohol poisoning in young adolescents as well, it is also known that the placenta does not filter alcohol, among other substances.
i would like to know what kind of benefit it is suppose to bring to the pregnancy and baby, that is so worth it, and what the difference is with people that say they smoke because the anxiety of no smoking is more damaging to the baby than the nicotine itself, or any other drug, cocaine maybe...
what is the choice, do what you can to ensure you have a healthy baby, or indulge yourself for five minutes?

And people wonder why the media sell so many many newspapers with those screaming headlines about pregnant women not eating/drinking/doing this or that- which changes every week. Perhaps alle01 needs to be a little bit less judgemental and the rest of us, including me who do have a glass of wine or two a week, need to relax a bit about her views. Women! We are our own worst enemies on this kind of thing, stop with the hysteria!

I am a doctor and would just like to point out that there is no defined limit as to what may or may not cause Fetal AlcohoL Syndrome. The condition is a spectrum and it has been shown that some women who drink very heavily in pregnancy may have an unaffacted baby, whereas very minimal alcohol intake may result in some FAS linked problems. The notion that you have to drink spirits and drink them every day to cause FAS is incorrect.

When I was seven months pregnant I was in the US on a business trip. Somebody was passing round a box of choclates in a meeting. As I was deciding which one to have a man walked round the table, removed them from me, and informed me as he walked away with them that I wouldn't want them as they had alcohol in them! Everyone else in the room seemed to find this very reasonable behaviour. So, while I agree that people need to be informed clearly about risk and that we all need to get the same messages as health professionals shouldn't be left to judge who might take excessive risks, I objected then and I object now to other people making decisions for me. Not saying that anyone on this thread is trying to do this but there are plenty of people out there who will do it given half a chance.

As far as i can make out, no-one on the other thread is 'encouraging' anyone to drink, and no-one is saying that it is of benefit to the child.

I have had cravings for Ribena, which lets face it is sugar in liquid form. My drinking it, is not going to benefit my baby, should i stop? Unlikely also that the vinegar in the massive amount of pickled onions i'm consuming will benefit him, should i move away from the jar with my hands up??

Alle01 if you chose not to have a drink fair enough, i decided by my own standards that it's acceptable and i will have one if i want one. I will not though, judge anyone who decides to have two.

All this talk has made me quite thirsty...

I am completely dumbfounded as to how judgemental people can be! What you choose to do in your pregnancy is just that.....a choice, and I am of the firm belief that we should not be forcing our opinions on others, which seems to me to be the whole purpose of this thread.

I would also like to point out, whatever the reasons behind the current guidelines for consumption of alcohol in pregnancy, individuals are free to choose what is and is not acceptable and we should also bear in mind that what is deemed safe and unsafe changes frequently.

Well I'm done for.
I drink 2/3 glasses of wine a night...thats half a bottle with my size of glass. Unfortunately just found out the good news today (we weren't trying and to be honest we both thought we were too old).
I don't drink Lambrusco either It's good Sauv blanc about 13% a bottle so it's got to be 10 units per bottle.
Slightly concerned that I'm old and have been drinking loads. Happy to give it up now but apparently damage in done in the 1st 3 months.
Bugger

I have to say that I honestly do not believe pregnant women are being actively encouraged to drink. The posts you are reading are obviously debating those who choose to. And just as it is their right to voice their opinion, as it is your right to voice yours, it is also their right to make informed decisions about their bodies. That includes whether or not to drink. The weekend we conceived our DS, DH and I had SHEDLOADS to drink - I dread to think how much alcohol was in my blood stream. Yet my DS is perfectly healthy. I also drank the occasional small amount during my pregnancy, not because I viewed my body as a temple (although I was aware of the alcohol debate) but because I went off the taste.

BTW I wholeheartedly agree with splatt!

justone - congratulations !! I was the same as you, not actively 'trying' to get pregnant, drinking normally (ie: like you !) and found I was ten weeks pregnant, being in my 40s I assumed it was the menopause. As tigersmummy says, there must be loads of people who are still drinking when they get pregnant - that's probably how they get pregnant in the first place .

Some people are so righteous about drinking (not to mention smoking, cheese, pate, coffee etc and even painting your nails for goodness sakes!)

hhg - plenty of studies have been comissioned and not shown a correlation of negative effects to moderate drinking. stop scaremongering.

The 'there is no safe limit' thing could be applied to anything (no safe limit for water, no safe limit for oranges, no safe limit for blah blah blah...) - Lets stick to stuff that has been proved shall we?

justonemorethen - at a very early stage in pregnancy, the baby isn't actually attached to you so there isn't an issue. It's 2-3 months that are the critical time. Virtually every single woman I know had a few drinks before they realised they were pregnant.

Preventable anxiety however is something I'd like us all to avoid

If you spread scaremongering bullshit and want to see pregnant women prohibited from drinking alcohol, you are either peddling an unpleasant, anti-women agenda (all the stuff about policing maternal behaviour is about controlling women - if people were really losing sleep over risks to the unborn they would be campaigning to stamp out the biggest risk to pregnant women and babies, which is the lack of funding for maternity care) or you are ignorant. If alcohol in moderate amounts was that damaging, the human race would be extinct by now. Given that, for several centuries, it wasn't safe to drink plain water, so everyone drank beer, cider and wine all the time. Weak stuff in moderate amounts, sure, but it was ALCOHOL.

Wow, this thread seems to have hit a nerve with a lot of people!! Just to add my tuppence worth, totally agree that it is up to individuals to decide what risks they are happy with, or consider to be true risks. At the risk of being flamed, I do think that it more helpful when people respond to Qs about listeria, alcohol etc by giving links etc to actual research or verified info to help people make their own informed decisions rahter than giving anecdotes like "I ate brie throughout pg and had no problems"...

2-3 glasses of wine or half a bottle a night isn't 'normal drinking'.

interesting article here about moderate drinking in pregnancy.

Blinks: I'm not going to bother clicking on the link. Because the point is that women have the right to make their own minds up about what to do/not do in pregnancy. Because women are human beings with the right to full autonomy. This is why woman-hating, scaremingering bullshitters need to get their arses kicked whenever they appear - the agenda is always taking away women's autonomy. Most of the anti-drinking stuff is pushed by the US foetus-worshippers, most of whom really do want women relegated to walking incubaters rather than human beings.

christ sake. what a load of dramatic drivel.

I originally planned to have just 1-2 units a week but have since cut it out completely. Not because I've decided "its not worth the risk" but because nothing sucks more than only 75-150ml of wine just once a week. I like a nice sized glass several times a week. I just found it depressing and decided it was easier (for me) to just cut it out completely.

Whereas listeriosis, omg its just too hard! I actually think this is way harder to cut the risk out and runs far greater risks and complications than alcohol. It doesn't help that its summer - not every meal I eat is going to be piping hot.

agree with sgb
she's right imho

ernie1981 - yep, I have the same problem with all of the anecdotal evidence answers. From both sides.

I see a contradiction between a woman talking about how well informed/well researched/responsible and capable of making up her own mind she is, etc - who then gives a 'well, I/my mother/sister smoked/drank all the way through pregnancy, and my/their baby was fine' type response, as if that was all the 'proof' needed.

(I know MN is a forum, and there are actually lots of instances where people DO ask just for personal stories! which is fair enough - but when people post asking for clear info and verified guidance, I think it's irresponsible.)

Mountain, molehill. Night all :D

JJKM: Anyone who is pressuring pregnant women not to drink is controlling and ignorant. Because it's none of their fucking business. Pregnant women are not public property.