Why do we potty train late?

[HappyHippo3]

I’d like to start this thread by saying I am in no way judging, I am genuinely just curious. I am FTM with no experience potty training, though I have been considering starting my 20 month old.

From my experience, there seems to be a big divide between the younger and older generations on the appropriate age to potty train. My friends think 20 months is too young, and I should wait until she is 2/3 and ‘ready’. My DGM says it was the norm to start babies on the potty at 6 months and they were dry by the time they were 1 year old. There was also an article recently that said around a of quarter children go to primary school un-potty trained.

My question is, what is the reason for this change over generations? What are the benefits of waiting until they are 2/3?

The researchers in this field distinguish between two types of training,

A six month old doesn't have the language to tell you they need to poo or the motor skills to undress themselves. A parent can reduce nappies by regularly putting them over a potty after feeds/meals.

However most people don't really class that as toilet training - it reduces nappy washing etc but it's more about relying on the regularity of their digestive system than the child themselves understanding.

A child is considered properly toilet trained if they can tell within their own body that they need to pee/poo and take themselves (with only a small amt of accidents).

In order to do that they need to be able to handle their clothes (quite hard) and have the interoception of their own body.

I "trained" mine at 2y6 months for pre-school (it was no nappies allowed) but they did have accidents. They sat on the potty every morning before going.

@Hadalifeonce yes i had the shaped Terry No Fold nappies, a diaper pail, and i would buy some solution that turned the water in the diaper pail blue.
each time a diaper was soiled (pee or poop) i would hold onto a corner rinse the diaper in the toilet bowl ring it dry then pop it into the diaper solution. poops fell off in the toilet and flushed away (with some soiling still staining the diaper but that's okay it was only a rinse after all). it took about a week for the diaper pail to be full. at which time i took the diapers out of the pail, discarded the blue smelly solution down the toilet, and put the diapers in the bathtub, filled it part way and soaked the diapers in warm soapy water. swirling them about. drained and put the diapers in my laundry basket, then down to the communal laundry room to wash and dry the lot. meanwhile at home the bathroom tub got cleaned and the diaper pail refreshed with clean water and diaper solution.
it was time consuming, over the terry nappy they wore plastic pants which over time the elastics stretched and the plastic became brittle and cracked.
all this fuss but my initial purchase of terry nappies lasted me three kids, by the third i did have to use disposables for the last few months as the biggest size nappies had thinned and worn down.
this process as you can see took time, certainly not feasible if you work full time or don't have a washing and drying facilities.

We pointed to the potty and left our child to it they worked it out what it was and what they needed to do when they ready, it doesn't need to be an Olympic sport?

Maybe the pressure is what puts kids off it?

@Octavia64 dressing for the occasion and helping the young ones with undressing is still a lot easier than diapers.
so no at 16-18 months of age, my trio would be naked from the waist down when training and when dressed it would be loose jogging bottoms no tight panties, training pants later on when mostly reliable.
i would consider a half naked child, who by day reliably uses the potty to pee and poop trained.

the dressing undressing and washing hands is nice but certainly not necessary when considering a toddler trained but my expectations of a toilet trained 3 year old would include this.
i have seen people do the elimination communication method successfully for poops from a very early age.

My mum was of the opinion that you should start as early as you can. She also told me how she would make my brother and I stand on a towel and then clean the floor if we had an 'accident' as punishment.
The thing is, toilet 'timing' is not toilet 'training' People, especially those who start early, will often confuse the two

I have 4 children and can honestly say that toilet training was a breeze. So much so that my mum couldn't believe how easy it was and admitted that it was a much better way.
I don't think there is much 'training' involved tbh. Mine were different ages when they got the hang of it 18 mths to almost 4. It was not something I stressed about. I also didn't really care what other people may say/think. I just waited until they were ready and it took a couple of days. Well, except the first. Nursery kicked that one off by recognising that she was looking ready.
They were also dry at night. For the most part. I think one had a few accidents.
If they are ready, and not being 'trained' as such, it's pretty straightforward

In some cultures you do it early. In mine by 2 is the norm most babys are given at potty chair as a 1st birthdaygift. . But there are still some that take longer. My nephew was 4. We trained him the same as all the others.

Depends on the cultural norms. I live in France and kids start preschool at 3 but have to be out of nappies to go. So they are.

DD1 started potty training at 14 months. It was long slow and grim. DD2 said no more nappies at 18 months and that was that.

It was too long ago for me to remember was ages with ds1&2, but always leave it till later, till they are ready, then it's easy. Why wouldn't you?

Cloth nappies and no washing machine, not even a twin tub, is a big motivator to get potty training done.

My parents felt the day they got a washing machine (courtesy of a small football pools win) was one of the best days of their lives.

Babies who are “potty trained” at 18 months or younger just spend their lives sitting on a potty. As PP have said, it’s timing.

As well as modern conveniences people place a lot of emphasis on waiting until their child is ready. In my case I started to really hate changing nappies by a point and that was when I decided to start training. I don't think it's fashionable to be parent-led rather than child-led these days or prepared for how hard potty training can be in some cases.

Nappies cost about 2p each and parents are under lots of pressure (returning to work, cost of living etc)

Plus you need to be firm for potty training - today's parents are terrified of traumatising kids so there's all this talk of readiness which really means leaving the job until there's zero resistance or friction from the child emotionally.

My son was 2.5. There wasn't any training involved. We didn't make any special effort, he was just ready. I'd always ask each morning if he wanted to wear a nappy or pants. One morning he said pants, and that was that. He's not dry at night (age 7) but that's a completely separate issue.

As others have said - disposable nappies/ pull-ups are cheap and easy to use, vs the old terry cloths and pins. Likewise generally speaking we all have washing machines. Plus. Parenting small kids is tough, especially when doing the juggle. Why make it even tougher by trying to force something and using time and energy on it which kinda just happens when kiddo is ready?! It's isn't worth the stress for such little gain.

You are a FTM with no experience of potty training...my suggestion would be to try and potty train a 20 month old who isn't ready and then come back and answer your own question!!

My question is, what is the reason for this change over generations? What are the benefits of waiting until they are 2/3?

The reason is a combination of disposable nappies and working mothers.

A friend was driven nuts by her Mil who claimed hers were potty trained by six months. But this lady had to draw water from a well, boil nappies on a solid fuel oven, put them through a mangle and hang them on the Aunt Sally above the stove to dry.
Much easier to sit baby/toddler on a potty regularly. This is why, in times past, little boys wore dresses like their sisters (also all children wore same clothes passed down to save money). The dresses could easily be pulled up for access to the nappy and sitting on a potty.

Cloth nappies need changing regularly as they soon get sodden and leave damp patches wherever the child sits. I remember seeing children on a paediatric ward with shocking nappy rash covering the entire bottom, vulva and pubic area up to the waist due to sitting in a sodden nappy for long periods. Disposable do what they say, absorbing the liquid away and leaving the bottom dry. You never see nappy rash like that now (except in cases of extreme neglect). On the other hand disposable nappies are a shocking environmental disaster as they do not degrade.

By starting the child young they get used to using a potty and if you do not use disposable you are saving the environment. They still won't be able to use the potty/toilet independently until 3+ it takes a lot to realise the need to go to the loo, remove clothing, go, pull up pants etc, wash hands.

But I do think it helps start regular habits, especially bowel. And if you wait until they are 3 some children will look at a potty and say "Nah" and quickly learn it is a way of really winding their mothers up. But a child that has sat on a potty since they were tiny will already be used to going on one and it's never an issue.

A friend used cloth for all hers but they needed changing through the night as sometimes they'd leak and the bedding needed changing too, and also they got cold and soggy waking the child. I used cloth by day and disposable at night. My babies both slept through the night by three months, I wasn't going to change that. But disposable crept in during the day too - the childminder wanted them. And if we were going out etc.
Eldest was dry at 2 1/2 - we were at toddler group and went to the toilet to change nappy where she saw another child on the potty. "I could do that" she said and she did. Within a few days we had dispensed with nappies, and nights too soon after.

Youngest was harder. She just peed wherever she was. Lots of wet patches on the sofa. But it was summer. We went for a family walk one day and within five minutes she had wet herself and was walking like a cowboy. "Haven't you got anything to change her into?" said the husband. "No. She's got to feel the discomfort" was the reply. It did help and she soon got the idea.
Children felt the discomfort of a cold wet cloth nappy and that also helped. They are quite happy in their disposable nappies and don't notice feeling wet.

I'd start sitting your child on the potty at regular times like when they wake up and after meals soon, it is timing as pp have said but they get used to it and will catch on sooner. And you will be doing your bit using less disposables over time.

You have to be ready for the hard work and the extra washing with the training pants not the nappy pants which are good at night until they are dry , and some parents just aren't ready for it and that's why some claim they're child isn't ready .It does take hard work in the short term.

I think there are different factors including late potty training - one being the fact that parents often working fulL time so literally don’t have time to spend doing it and it does take dedication. I think nappies are promoted by companies for older ages when not necessary and I will get flamed but I have noticed that some parents simply can’t be arsed… It IS hard work, takes effort but is absolutely possible. Even NHS recommends training before 2 years. My DD was potty trained by 18 months (i was at home full time then though) and my DS trained at 22 months but I work 3 days a week now so it’s been harder.

I think it should be done when the child is ready. My eldest dd showed signs at 12mths but it scared her, so I tried at 18 months. It took 3 days to have no accidents. My second dd was 2yrs and had no end of accidents, but knew she needed the toilet. If they understand that they are weeing/pooing (holding themselves, hiding) , it is time IMO.

DS was two in the December, we potty trained in the January, largely because we were busy, visiting etc over Christmas. He was trained in just over a week, and I don't mean I was hovering him over the potty ever half an hour, he only ever had one accident at nursery and it wasn't a full wee he was running to the toilet but had left it too late and struggled to get his pants down in time. He was dry at night around the same time. I do think it's easier with younger ones, both my DNs trained around the same time.

Oh and we both work full time

It's not really working mothers. I had a mum working FT in the 70s.

Her life would have been considerably easier if she wasn't trying to squeeze in hand washing nappies around work.

I've never been allowed to forget that I didn't potty train until 3 which she views as embarrassingly late.

When I was a baby in the late 1960s cloth nappies and plastic pants were a massive PITA to boil wash and dry, no washing machine, my mum boiled nappies in a big pot; so every single saved nappy was a bonus. Babies and toddlers were put on or held over potties to save nappies. When a baby or toddler wee-ed or poo-ed in a potty it was either luck, ie they would have voided at that moment whether in a nappy or potty; or an association between the feeling of the potty and evacuation. Not potty training in the sense that we mean - establishing control over bladder and bowel and deliberately using a pot or toilet.

There are only 18 months between my dds, youngest pretty much potty trained herself at around 18-20 months as she was copying her sister! She used the potty of her own accord and was completely dry day and night by around 22 months, definitely before she was 2

i was born in the 70s and my mum used cloth nappies with all 4 of us - so there was a real incentive to get us dry asap.

It’s so much easier for parents now with disposable nappies and no issues with nappy rash.

I think the important thing is to do it only when the child is ready. With my eldest, that was at exactly 2. He just announced he didn’t want nappies anymore as he saw his friend using a potty. His brother wasn’t ready until 2.5.

That statistic of 1 in 4, is it actually 1 in 4 children in nappies, or is it 1 in 4 reception teachers have at least one child in nappies (who may have additional needs) or 1 in 4 children have occasional accidents?

The last is fairly normal. I remember being at school in the early 90s and there being accidents. And DS’s class 8 years ago they encouraged us to include a change of underwear in the bottom of pe kit bags, again it was used occasionally. He’d been potty trained for over a year before starting school: the accidents were mostly followed by time off school with illness and were just the first symptom.