AUG 08 - Be who you are and say what you feel...

[TwilightSurfer]

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." --Dr. Suess

Hey, nice new thread ts

cyteen how sad for you to find out somethings were differnet to how you had it sorted in your head. (iykwim) Really crap with words, but I am so glad you managed to chat with your dad, and hopefully get to grips with whatever you spoke about.
Thinking of you and hugs lovely lady.

miamla thats sounds lovely the sewing with your mum,how wonderful. I bet the dress is going to look amazing.

oops so sorry to hear P as been ill,poor thing, and that you were upset that the ilaws didnt let you know.

hotter you can have my whingy two to play with if you want.

sazzles and buckets our playgroup is that mad we have a waiting list, which I can't see any of them waiting getting in, in the next year tbh.
We had 30 ish other week, and like you sazzles It was so much better when it was quieter, to drinkand chat play with dcs without worrying someone would get trampled on etc...

vg mmmmm...
Not broody here at the moment.
can't believe I would ever say that tbh.

spring that is a long time with relatives.

watcha jonnysteak buckets hope you get your holiday sorted
albs are you a twi-slut yet?
I have just ordered the Black Dagger Brotherhood books.
Dh asked the other day,why I was buying porn books?
I am heading straight into fantasy world at the moment, seems much better than reality.

Hi red hopr your all ok, and all poorly dcs are better. You had a rough time with all three of them ill.
dizzy hope you manage some rest, and sorry to here you have lingering cold again.
lucky Hi

My two have been ill for 3 weeks, with high temps, sorethroats and earaches etc... lots of it about round here.

ok I have rambled enough soryy...

Sorry to hear things are still difficult no1

Thanks for all the nice messages. I can't stop thinking about it, on and off, it just keeps popping into my head. Basically what I found out is that she didn't take an overdose, as I have spent the last 20 years believing. She suffocated herself with a plastic bag Not a nice thing to hear.

I realise that the actual method of death might not seem to make a lot of difference overall, but it does, it does. Over the years that I have been allowed to believe the overdose story, I had convinced myself that she didn't mean to actually die - that she just had a moment of madness, took a load of pills and then freaked out and called my dad. But she didn't. She must have called my dad in the knowledge of what she was about to do, then gone ahead anyway. I keep thinking of her waving me off that night with a smile on her face - my last memory of her - and just thinking 'you bitch, you must have known all along'.

I had recently reached a new kind of peace about things and started to feel loving towards her again after a few years of being very angry, and now I fucking hate her all over again. Plus I feel like an idiot (all over again) for not knowing the facts when it seems everyone else did.

Sorry to spill my guts, just need to get it out there.

Cyteen, I didn't get to respond to your earlier message.

What you have found out is bloody horrible, and as you say takes away all of the shreds of comfort were available with the overdose story.

Suicide is vile and as you said the other day, it carries on being destructive for everyone involved.

From the little I know about this issue, as someone who has had pastoral dealings with the suicide prevention issue, when someone is in that place in their heads, then they will genuinely believe that you are better off without them - even though that is transparently wrong.

Very often people are genuinely peaceful and happy in the final hours and days because after so much turmoil they have reached what seems to them like a positive decision. Ringing your dad might have been a 'tidying things up' move rather than a cry for help.

I think my uncle made similar calls to my dad who, at 21, and knowing very few people in England suddenly realised what might be happening and arrived too late. He had to deal with the whole thing himself and help cover it up at home.

Your mother made a terrible choice.

Your dad, is still here and having his own tough time at the moment, but he's responded to it by sharing the truth and unburdening himself of painful thoughts he has had to carry around for a long time.

It's crappy that you'll have to start rebuilding your picture of the whole thing, and of your mum. It's beyond crappy that you can't talk all this through with Si.

You and your dad though are strong people with a great bond of love and trust. All the secrets that could hurt you have been dealt with while you can talk about them together. And you are re-inventing the role of mum in your family in a wonderful way as everyone else has said.

We're all here with love and support whenever and however you need it.

Not a thread-slay, just a x-post.

Flipping heck. I was typing as fast as I could.

Woohoo might have found an even better holiday cottage for less money! This siteHoliday Lets is great, have found loads of 5bed places under £600 peak. I just set the search to the number of guests and sorted it from cheapest to highest price.

Cyteen Oh your poor dad, must have been eating him up all these years not knowing how/when/whether to tell that. Maybe he thinks now you are strong enough, now you're a mum too, and can turn all that backshit into a positive future through parenting.

oh cyteen my love, I am crying for you here. How awful. so very very sad.

I hope you are getting some rl support too. I wish I could throw my arms around you, I have great big shoulders to cry on too.

Buckets it's a nice thought but he had no idea I didn't know, or that I thought she'd taken an overdose. It came out in passing during the conversation. I don't think he has any idea how shocked I am.

The whole thing has been such a relentless clusterfuck, I don't know why I'm even surprised anymore. Also have no idea where I got the OD story from; since no fucker even bothered to tell me she had killed herself (as opposed to being killed by someone else/an accident) for a full two weeks after the event, it doesn't seem unlikely that I either came up with it and was allowed to believe it or that someone insinuated to make me feel 'better'.

WHY IS MY FAMILY SUCH A LOAD OF FUCKING FUCK-UPS

On a lighter note, I do need to remind myself that I'm making a decent job of being a mum. DS and I were supposed to go over to a mate's to play in the garden this afternoon but her DS started projectile puking so she warned me off. We have spent the afternoon indoors with the telly on. I was feeling v guilty about it until I remembered that not only am I reeling from some shocking news, but we were out this very morning doing wholesome cheery activities.

cyteen I've started a message to you about 3 times now, maybe this will be the one I post

my family are utterly atrocious too. lies upon half truths and all under the premise of 'protecting' the kids etc etc. all I can take from it is the view that I won't do this to my children and I'm sure you feel the same about J.

with regards to your mum, I agree completely with Red and through my very occassional involvement with persons in a suicidal state of mind I can tell you with my hand on my heart they do in fact believe that this is not a selfish act and that they are doing 'right' by others. I have had to talk several people down on the phone etc etc however if they're phoning looking for help they're not serious iyswim. I did have one woman who did the same as your mum and as devestating as it was to her dh who found her she was utterly composed in the matter, her decision having been made and the release associated with it - it never occurred to her that this final act would have such an impact on those who loved her

I have no idea if what I am saying brings you any comfort at all but please PLEASE believe me when I tell you that this is an illness that holds ongoing ramifications for all of those affected by it for a long time afterwards and you are allowed to be angry, furious, sad, let down, confused and disappointed all in one moment.

you are a wonderful mum to J and a great help/support/comfort and inspiration to us all on here and I hope that in some way you'll come to terms with what has happened, tormenting yourself with details is not going to do any good in the long run. Maybe now having spoken to your dad about it you'll both be able to find some peace.

dizzy and Lentil I do appreciate your taking the time to post such considered posts. Believe me, I know everything that you've said. I've spent 20 years being (mainly) rational and understanding about it, and have read her note, that says we're all better off without her, many times. But the anger is a natural part of it and that is where I'm at right now. I know she was ill, I know she had lost sight of reality, and most of the time I can be gracious and live with that. Every now and again I need a WHAT ABOUT ME? moment.

dizzy feel free to join me in the irrationality lounge any time you want The drinks are always strong and they don't mind if you break the glasses afterwards.

No no VG I didn't mean it like that either. What a mess. No criticism intended of anyone! I'm just sorry you all have to listen to it (but it is helping me).

Beyond belief that people thought it was ok to leave you in the dark all this time.

Why do people think secrets are a good idea?

how old was she?

Mid-40s.

On a complete tangent, I am looking at vintage/unusual bridal jewellery to cheer myself up - check out these cute literary lockets, made to order.

am a sucker for butler and wilson

Cyteen - have been sitting all afternoon thinking of how to respond to your post and am still at a loss for words I can offer ((HUGS)) and cake. You are an amazing mum to J and the way you talk about him and your feelings for him have made me well up on more than one occasion. You are a fantastic mum and an afternoon infront of the telly gives you a chance to feel what you need to and he gets the pleasure of telly

Went to MW this afternoon and Hector is being her father's child and is currently breach - MW panicked and started on about c-sections and measuring too big for dates. I said I have ascan on Friday but she wasn't listening just running around like a headless chicken! She failed to read the sheet that says Hyperthyroid babies are normally low birth weight not giant babies and I have about 10cms of existing tummy to work around! DH is offering to 'help' me into a position with hips above head

Oh Cyteen I'm rubbish with words but I'll say again that you know we love you very much and are more than happy to soak up the 'what about me's when you feel the need to offload. Plus you know some of us don't have enough children to mother as it is and can always spare some mother hen when needed

oops remind me when are you due? Surely Hector has plenty of time to move?

oops, get scrubbing those floors - literally

hots you can come and mother me - I'm in a fecking pathetic state for no good reason and keep chewing the head off poor PH and have just about fallen out with my dad too

my better period better fecking hurry up before I end up divorced [meep]

i hope you politely refused your DH's help, Oops!

cyteen, i can't say it better than the others. just want you to know that i can sympathise with the lying side of it. My father has often been called the 'king of deceit' by me but this is about you not me. you find me a perfect family and i'll eat my wedding dress. everyone has fuckups, some just hide them better than others. you rant/shout/cry/scream as much as you want, we're all here to help in whatever way we can (although i fully appreciate that there are many better with words, and what to say, than me!)