May 2009 - Don't forget to wear your good shoes...

[belgina]

Right, new thread...

Sorry about the title

Cocktail anyone?

Oh, and i should add, I know that being away is a bit strange for S, and probably affected his sleep, but he has never slept all night, and generally has 2-5 feeds a night even at home. The longest stretch between feeds is 4 or 5 hours, usually at the start of the night.

Saus- pants about the PhD . How annoying. Hope you get more feedback.

Ses- I think you need to make sure your DH knows you expect birthday cards from O in future. And it's certainly a cop out to think that valentines covers your birthday too . I would be not to get cards from the DCs. On my last birthday my DH even got me separate cards from each DC - DD writes her own, DS1 does a scribble drawing in his, and DH had to do DS2s.

looby- great news on the biopsy but sorry your mum will be half an hours drive away. M sounds like she is developing well and I see from FB she enjoyed her pancakes .

momino- I tried potty training DS1 a few months ago and after 2 pairs of wet pants in minutes I gave up, so well done for persevering and yay on the wee on the potty. My mum reckoned DS1 just needs some "training" and he'll use the potty, but he has a real aversion to it (he will sit on it fine, unless he needs a wee or a poo and then he gets all upset and gets up so it's not worth pushing him).

muddled and fi glad you had a nice meet up. momi reggiee grumps - maybe we'll have to try to meetup soon?

pula I haven't done controlled crying so i'm not sure what's involved time wise. With the night feeds does he seem to take a full feed each time still or is he just comfort sucking iykwim? As long as he's stock piling calories during the day he shouldn't need all of those feeds & you're right he definitely hasn't got to the stage of self settling yet. Our DS was stubborn about waking in the night for a 3am feed which he def did not need as it put him off his breakfast. He was FF and even with a dream feed at about 10pm ish he always woke up then out of habit i think... but then wouldn't settle without a bottle. In the end I did a GF suggestion and gave him a bottle of water with a small amount of sugar in it at that 'feed' instead and reduced the small amount of sugar over a few days to nothing and by the time we got to day 4 or 5 i think it was he was sleeping through that feed as I think he thought what's the point in waking if they're only going to give me plain water lol. GF suggested the small amount of sugar in the water as it gave a small calorie boost to the drink (far less so than our sugary BM or FF) and helped tide them over till the morning feed. By cutting that calorie boost down over a few days it gradually got DS eating more during the day which in turn had him wanting less at night. How much food/feeds quantity wise is DS doing in the day atm? could you up any of these? do you think it would help? You must be exhausted

muddled I didn't think you were clumsy! Now G & J have the dropsy down pat... i'm sure it's a new fitness regime our LO's have planned for us. DS was on his best behaviour... mind you the successful trip to toysrus probably helped with that lol. Yes must do it again... maybe closer to your neck of the woods next time so it's closer for a few more too?

Pula I really feel for you. As you know I had months of bad sleep with R. I half heartedly tried CC which he just didn't respond to. He would cry and cry without being able to self settle. He has improved a lot in the last month. I have decided to still fed him when ever he wakes. I think the main difference is him being moved into his own room and being returned to his cot after each feed (which is easier said than done at stupid o'clock in the morning).

oh & muddled i'll upload the photos of J, G & DS as soon as i've found the safe place i've put the cable to do it

fi- thanks for the advice. We did try some water last night at about 10pm, but he wouldn't entertain it- it was clear he wanted boob and nothing else. I will hopefully see my HV soon (either 9 month check if they do them or a special home visit as I left a message to say I could do with some advice), but I find it hard to not feed at night sometimes as he basically has milk when he wakes (6 or 7am) and then on the 3 days at nursery and the 1 day with DH he won't take much milk/formula and generally doesn't take any at all. On the days I am with him, I tend to only feed him once, usually around 3 or 4pm. Then he feeds at 6.30pm before bed. So basically he has most of his milk between 7 and 7, just a shame its 7pm to 7am and not the other way round .

febes- yes, I often think that I should just do as you do, rather than try "training", as he can sometimes sleep well in his own cot upstairs, often til 5am after an 11pm feed. But once DH has brought him down to me for a feed, I often fall asleep or just end up sleeping with him as the thought of getting out of bed and settling him in his cot isn't very appealing ATM. Well done you on persevering and well done R for sleeping better.

Fi- I meant to say i'm sure it's a comfort and a habit in the night, so i am sure he could go longer without a feed.

Oh and fi, even though he doesn't drink much milk at nursery, they are how much food he can put away, so he is definitely taking on lots of calories.

Anyway I will shut up and carry on watching the Brits.

pula you could be right about the wrong 7 - 7 and with all the feeds in the night from habit, need or comfort S is getting his pint a day through the night. I know our lo's are supposed to have cut down on their milk feeds in the day but G still hasn't cut out that many & she eats 3 big meals a day too. She won't often have double boobs in one sitting so she has one... a short break... then the other so 2 before BF, 2 in between BF and Lunch, 2 in between lunch and dinner & 2 after dinner before bed! Some days I think she must have hollow legs lol.

Evening!

Pula - I've no experience of CC either but I thought the general guidance was you could do it from 6mo. I took a similar approach to Febes with regard to O's sleeping and on the whole, he is much better. Generally we only have bad nights when he's teething. You have my sympathies as it's tough, especially with you being back at work.

muddled - LOL at plasterers polishing

Looby - great about your biopsy results

Belgina - hope the AP arrived ok and is settling in well

Megan has managed to chew through part of the sky cable outside. It wasn't working at all earlier but we have tv back now but no Sky+ so I've not been able to record One Born Every Minute as I wanted to watch BRIT awards too and DH preferred BRITS too.

Fairly productive day here. Sorted out my work wardrobe. I do fit into some of my old suits and shirts Need to buy a black trouser suit though and maybe a couple more shirts.
Vacuumed upstairs and also sorted the airing cupboard and started packing away another load of O's clothes.
Swept and mopped floors in downstairs loo, porch, dining room and kitchen!

i'm just watching one born every minute on 4+1... makes me kinda relieved i ended up having 2 x cs instead of my planned natural ones... i might have been like the red head with DS who knows?!

Hi everyone! Sorry I've been absent for a while, struggling to keep up with all your chat! Thanks for the new thread belgina ses happy birthday for yesterday. Sounds like your DH needs a bit of training .

flip very exciting about your career break!

hop sausage sorry to hear you've had such a stressful time. Boo to the PhD people! The only silver lining I can see is that as they have been this unhelful up to now the PhD itself might have been a nightmare.

Looby glad your test results were clear.

Very of your meet ups. Pre DC I'd have thought nothing of popping down to London on the train (apart from the ££) but I'm too nervous to tackle it with H

Pula you must be exhausted . I'm afraid to say H is just as bad as your S and it's been like that since Christmas, but I haven't got other DC to look after, nor am I back at work - I don't know how I'd cope if I was. I did a sleep log on a fairly typical night and H woke 8 times, with the longest stretch of sleep being 2 hours - grim. He needs feeding and/or cuddling to sleep - he won't fall asleep in his cot, only on me. Mostly I can put him back in the cot (fortunately his cot is next to our bed so I don't have to get up) but have resorted to bringing him into our bed a few times, though it only results in a mild improvement. I tried letting him cry once while shh/patting and he did fall asleep - but then woke screaming after 10 min .

I guess this is a roundabout way of saying I'm afraid I don't think I have any useful advice for you. I've been doing a lot of thinking about H's sleep, and reading the No Cry Sleep Solution and threads on here, getting myself into a tizzy about bed time routines, day routines, meal routines, Pantley Pull Off, how awake is 'sleepy but awake', etc etc. I've been feeling really down about it. In the end I've come to the conclusion that there aren't any easy answers and it's nothing I'm doing wrong, H is just a crap sleeper and, actually, the problem is not how to change his sleep (if it's even possible) - he's perfectly happy - but how do I cope with his (lack of) sleep. So I am just going to do whatever it takes to cope until he grows out of it: co-sleeping, bf-ing whenever he wants it. The bits of sleep advice I am implementing are sticking to getting up and bedtimes, bedtime routine and making sure he gets his naps in even if they're late in the day.

I know some people say CC is hell for 3 days then their babies miraculously sleep through but I honestly don't think it works for every baby. My Mum admitted to letting my brother CIO in his pram so she couldn't hear him and it didn't 'fix' him, she had to do it many nights (poor lad).

Sorry, I'm rambling now, so I'll stop. As you can tell this has been a bit of an obsession of late!

Hope everyone has enjoyed their pancakes. Lemon and sugar here

ses naughty megan & YAY at fitting into old suits and shirts. wow at your productive busy cleaning in all one day too!

Oops lots of x posts!

Spangle - great catch up!
Are you sure we can't tempt you to London on Friday? I'm still not sure how I'm going to get there or whether to take buggy or back pack but I'm determined to get there somehow!

Fi - I don't know what came over me! Poor O did suffer a bit as he spent more time than usual in his playpen with tv on (pre Megan chewing incident!)
I did the wardrobe sorting though whilst he had an hours nap so that was good!

Right, must head off to bed. Meeting up with post natal group at local Starbucks in the morning followed by O's Jo Jingles class. We join a new class tomorrow as we're moving from 3-9mo to 9mo-2yr!

Here's to better or good nights all round!

hiya spangle I'm actually quite surprised at how adventurous i'm feeling these days. I have never been on a london bus as far as I can remember on my own let alone with a pram! but i'm quite excited about seeing how it goes Sorry you've rotten nights too.. in the end I think we all just muddle through as best we all can and do what ever works for us to keep us sane... well most of the time. It doesn't arf wear you down though... we've a night mare with ds's early waking still. Today he started the day at 4.30am... and i've run out of things to try with him atm.

G thankfully sleeps through from 6.30/7ish to same the following am... so at least one of our dc's sleeps through properly!

Evening all

sausage great to see you back here, and big fat hairy pants to the PhD people. Spangle great to hear from you too.

Fi and Muddled how lovely you caught up. Everyone going to the Friday meet up, have a great time.

Am wondering how Belgina is getting on with the ap.

Ses can't believe that you are going back to work so soon. Hope it goes OK for you.

Pula I did CC with DD1 because she was a nightmare sleeper, and I got to the stage that I didn't know what else to do. She used to wake up every hour, at age 9 mths, and insisted on cuddles, patting, shushing etc etc to get herself back to sleep. As spangle said, I personally found the first night bad, second night a nightmare, third night better and fourth night she stopped waking up. I did exactly what you did, leave for a minute, then back to pick up and calm her down (but not to sleep), then put her down again, waiting 2 minutes next time, leaving it longer and longer and longer. The first couple of nights she didn't calm herself down at all (only when I comforted her after each timed break) until the very end (I think it was a couple of hours) when I think she kinda cried herself back to sleep. I felt awful, each time she cried I felt like she was saying "how could you do this to me and leave me cry." But I am glad I did it and persevered. It was hard and I can understand why some people don't like the idea of letting LOs cry. But I think it worked for me and my LO because it got us out of a rut pretty quickly, and I would do it again. HTH.

spangle- sorry H is not getting any better at night. Sounds exhausting. It's funny how before I had S I found the baby whisperer worked great on DD and DS1 and we followed it closely - they both had dreamfeeds and then slept through til 6 or 7am from about 4 or 5 months. They still woke at night but could be easily settled (unless teething/ill). Then by 8mo we stopped the dreamfeeds and they went 7pm-7am. I really believed you could "train" any baby if you persevered. With S we have been doing shush/pat and pickup putdown but with DD and DS1 we got to the stage (about 5mo?) where we could just put them down and they would go to sleep without us being in the room, no crying or anything, although with DS1 he loved his swaddle so much he was swaddled until 9mo . Sometimes I think about letting DS2 have his dummy back again (he would settle with his dummy fine until we took it away at 6mo) but it seems like a backwards step now. Oh well, I will carry on hoping that each night will be a good one and that eventually he will sleep through. He hasn't woken yet which is usually a good sign, but is annoying sometimes as i sit up waiting for him to wake for a feed before i go to bed - i should have just gone to bed early.

Ses I have been thinking about it but then realised I'm going to visit a friend from work and her 2 DSs on Friday so I can't. I'm just wondering how I would keep H entertained on 2 x 1h45m train journeys. People do it though, don't they?

Fi poor you with DS1's sleeping. 4.30am is . Particularly annoying you don't get to benefit from G's award-winning sleeping!

Thanks Tummum. Not sure I am ready for 2 hours crying as 30 minutes seemed hard going. Thanks for the advice though. I was going in and picking up S, giving him a kiss and putting him straight back down but i did wonder whether i should have held him til he calmed. I think if he had calmed when I went in, he might have settled sooner, as he was just getting more and more wound up. So I might give it another go when i feel ready. I have heard it only takes 3 or 4 nights, but i just felt tonight that he would never calm down enough to fall asleep- he would just sit up crying.

Pula I was speaking to my SIL on Sunday who had the opposite experience - her DD1 was a bad sleeper (though got better by 10m) and DD2 fantastic. Mind you she is now a very stubborn toddler! H has not yet had a dummy... I have one somewhere and was wondering whether to try. He sucks his thumb though, so maybe doesn't need it. Hope you have a better night tonight.

Tummum glad CC worked for you. At the moment I don't think I could do it but haven't ruled it out if H is still like this when I'm back at work in April.

Right, must go to bed before the next awakening.

Evening all,

The downside of having an ap is that you have to be a bit sociable and can't just sit at the computer mn-ing all the time Maybe it's time for a laptop, but DH is being tight and wont let me get one

Firstly, the ap seems great at the moment. She reminds me very much of our 2nd last one. Hopefully she'll fit in well with us. I think she must think I'm a teeny weeny bit strange with my slings and cloth nappies and things, but she'll get used to it soon.

pula I'm so sorry to hear about your bad nights. I did do cc with ds. I did as you discribed: cry for 1 min, pick up, calm down, put down, then 2,3 etc... I also did this for bedtime with dd1. At night I did something more like pick up put down with ds and it worked. However, C does not seem to respond to this sort of techniques either. The problem is that she screams and then as soon as I pick her up, she falls asleep. So I can't put her down awake . As soon as I discontinue the body contact she starts crying again, before she's even back in the cot. At bedtime she does go to sleep quietly, but I have to sit in the room with her (I ususally sit on my bed reading in the semi-darkness or listen to a podcast). She tends to wake 3 times in the night, around 11 (when I feed her and put her back no problem). at 2.30-ish, when she comes into our bed and then 5.30-ish. She has had times where she feeds more often, but I managed to reduce this by not feeding her unless it's been at least 3h since before. I just have her in bed with me and cuddle her and somehow that's worked so far. If she wont settle with just cuddles, then I presume that she must be hungry and feed her. I hope your nights get better and that you find something that works for you.

spangle welcome back. Please do come to the meet if you do all of a sudden feel brave enough to tackle the London public transport.

fi muddled Sounds like you had a lovely meet up. It's going to be a very MNy week for you then, fi.

ses Woohoo about fitting in your pre-pregnancy suits

Goodnight everyone. Wishing you all a good night, especially pula and spangle

hiya tummum

my train trip from weston-super-mare to london will take 2hrs 25mins.. each way! i'm not worried about keeping G occupied (will hope she sleeps some of the journeys) DS on the other hand.. that would have been another matter altogether! caged tiger springs to mind

hello to everyone at this late hour. Maple syrup on american style pancakes with bacon for us today!

pula, hope your night goes ok. no experience with cc but will do on dd1 if necessary (at the moment, she's been waking only once in the night for the past few nights).

looby, so relieved your tests are clear!

spangle good to see you and hope H's sleep improves some point soon.

ses, you had the kind of productive day I wish I'd had. well done!

fi and muddled, lovely you were able to meet .

belg, how's the new AP?

Hi everyone else!

had a good day. DH was home today as I was meant to go to Londn for training day (KIT) but was cancelled. dh decided to keep the day off and I went for a clarins body massage which I got for my birthday last year (only took 8 mos for me to use it ). was very relaxing but I was a bit and put the paper pants on backwards, hehe.

potty training, day 2 : 3 accidents, only one wee in the potty. not sure if she's ready but feel it might be too late to turn back to nappies. She has nursery tomorrow... what to do?

I've found you
I'm ready to come back now (breathes in and out) After a very hectic and bleugh couple of months, things are well and truly on the up

Hope everyone had a lovely V-Day. And Pancake day today.

Baby J had his 9 month check yesterday and the HV was very pleased with him, his development is that of a 12 month old child so I'm one very happy Mommy. Especially after his health scare, he had us worried! But he's fine!
DD has started reading now, and is doing very well.
I've had to start cooking lol I will never beat DP's standards, but I'm trying my best at his recipes! Juggling the housework, 2 children, dog, cooking, by MYSELF for 2 weeks was something which definately showed me that I can do anything if I set my mind to it

I hope you are all well

I hope you ladies meeting have lots of fun!

Jael XX