Dec 08 it's time for sippy, tippy and doidy cups (& wee sticks!?!)

[Veggiemummy]

sorry could think of much and these where discuss on last page.

trace - poor you. it is so hard in the middle of the night, especially when you have been looking after poorly ones, while harbouring unspoken resentment - i think most of us have been there. i hope life seems a little different in the daytime, and that L and P get better. dh and i have had our 5th horrific night in the row - so hard not to let madam's screaming and wakings turn us against eachother. you may have gathered that we are quickly reaching the end of our tether and are seriously considering cc or getting someone to help us do it, a la arti. hope you got some sleep, hope you get to talk some of it through with dh, and hope the girls get better.

oh, and i'm a firm believer in the power of well-judged swearing to be a fabulous stress buster. much underrated.

Hi girls, sorry for no post but my computer died on me and I had to get a new power cable. Took nearly 2 weeks as well! Am back now though

Trace, am sorry to hear about all the sickness. How is L now? You know my L had pneumonia last Oct, which caused awful chest pains and made her very tired and listless. Not even cake could cheer her up. However, the ABs kicked in so quickly that she was back to normal in less than a week once we worked out what the problem was. Am thinking of you darling.

NJAN, I am with you too my love. I think that marriage / relationships are really put to the test when you have very small children. I know DH and I do competitive tiredness, childrearing, work etc which we never used to do and it's exhausting. We don't talk about emotional things except after a row, which is very frustrating as I would like to be able to have a sensible discussion without having the big fight as aperitif. IKWYM about the time consuming "hobby" as well (disguised as illness though gor you, you poor thing). DH is training for a bike ride in Oct and is doing long cycle rides most days, which mean he is very late home, out very early or both. And frequently asleep in front of hte TV at 9. That's my role. See, I said we were competitive. Synpathies to you - how are things this am? Has your mulling things over got you anywhere? I am afraid I do that too but never reach any conclusions.

M crying, will just go and get him and be right back.

Morning,

Trace Sorry all of your lot have the poorlies. Hope they are better soon and you can get some sleep.

NJAN It is so nice to know I am not the only person who thinks she has 3 kids. We also do the competitive tirednees, amount of nappy changes etc. Drives me mad some days.

Work today and I am dreading it I am really struggling with it as I just want to be at home with the boys. DH is ringing tax credits today to see if they will tell him how much we'll get if I stop working. I am seriously hoping it will be more than I get in wages so I can stop working.

Hi syb,

Thanks for your thoughts, glad to know I'm not the only one !

The other morning, out of the blue, in the car on the way to work, DH asked me if I loved him still, and I felt so annoyed by that, I was I thinking about work, dinner, everything but. But then I realised that he must feel really quite insecure to need to ask, I think before the babies came, he was my baby, and then after they came I fell in love with them instead He is quite depressed as well, and while I am an optimist he is a pessimist and I find it frustrating.

I suppose the stress of small children amplifies the imperfections in a relationship that were already there anyway. I'm not convinced that it is possible to have a great realtionship with your husband and have small kids, (someone tell me otherwise please !), so its a question of deciding whether its worth sitting it out until they are bigger.

For me, I think it is, as we have fantastic family time, and I cant fault DH on that. So it feels like the family time is getting everything at the moment and our relationship nothing, iyswim. I feel that I've got a way to go in learning to communicate better and thats what we need to work on, really. And let past grieveances go

NJAN, really feel for you. I feel we don't have much if a life as a couple at the moment, and it is sad. I think having 3 undre 4 is bound to take its toll, though, so I am being calm - ish. Or resigned to it. I am sure it will get easier once the children get older and less demanding - or demanding in a diff way of course. I just feel it is so physically draining at the moment and work does not help. I am sitting it out for the while - I am sure things will get better and, looking at friends who have v small children and have separated, that is the worst of all worlds.

hello.
sorry for being such a grump last night and thank you for your lovely words
I managed to get both girls back to sleep by 2am, then P woke again at 4, so I totaled about 2 hours sleep. Am feeling rather dazed today because that was similar to the previous night...anyway much more importantly both girls seem a bit brighter today. P is coughing lots but has been quite smiley, and L is very pale and tired but says her chest feels better than yesterday, and dh is feeling a bit better too, so seems like everyone is on the mend. I get tired of being the one who isn't ill as dh seems to catch everything going (and milk it...), but then when I think back 4/5 years when I was very bad with PND and dh was the strong one for a very long time - then I realize I'm being selfish and forgetting his good points. You're right NJAN about focusing on family life at the expense of being a couple. He has however just presented me with a plate of stir-fry so i shall be a good wife and log off to eat it

Sooooooooo tired will post more tomorrow but missed you all.

Oh and 250 miles is hard but entertaining and looking after 2 small people is still harder.

Hello everyone

Trace: hope L's chest is better soon, and that you get some rest while everyone is on the mend. When do you start your new job - is it next week?

LadyT: grrrrrr at your employers, hope the lawyer gives them a kick up the arse. I've no doubt you will find a fabulous new job but it is distressing being stabbed in the back after being a model employee for so long.

WG: I'm struggling with feeding to sleep as well, am still happy to feed DS2 at night but he is waking ALL THE TIME at the minute and is refusing to sleep in his cot AGAIN. So tonight after I was sure he wasn't hungry I tried cuddling him back to sleep, took a while and quite a few tears, eventually got him back to sleep with a rousing chorus of 'I lift up my finger and I say tweet tweet shush shush now now come come' which bizarrely seems to calm him down. I'm not about to start singing at 3am though

NJAN: it is hard, isn't it? I find myself getting cross at having to make an effort with DH while I'm being pulled in all directions by the DSs, then I catch myself and realise I'd be pretty pissed off in his place. I do feel that the only time I get to myself is when I'm asleep, and now DS2 has seen fit to scupper that...

DH is on the phone to his grandmother, the immortal phrase 'I AM 90 you know' has already been uttered and now she's complaining about every other member of his family so she must be feeling pretty cheerful.

Hellooo everyone,
Sorry not being posting much but been busy with DH away and then brother and sis-in-law and little nephew visiting.
wg I hope you have some luck with a sleep consultant. Lots of sympathy on the difficult nights...sorry was not much help on the feeding to sleep thing, DS just seems to have moved away naturally from feeding to sleep, just through luck rather than anything I have done. What about the time your DH put him down and fed him, how did that work?

trace glad you are feeling a bit happier and everyone is on the mend.

Oh I have a question for all you travellers, I am off on holiday to Austria with DS on Wedsnesday! What do you all do about formula/baby food on a plane?

Will they let you take sterilised water and powder on? I seem to find conflicting info on this. Will they make you mix it up and taste it? Or will it be easier to bring sterilized bottle and buy cartons when through security?

What about baby food, if I bring a pre made jar will they make me open it and taste it? And would fruit purees/yoghurts count as liquids? Maybe I should buy this stuff trhough security too. Can I even take sudocreme which I guess is a bit like a paste?

Ooh I also meant to say, pmk sorry to hear you are fed up of lurkers, has something happened, and please don't go away!

And veggie looking forward to hearing more about the bike ride, welcome back!

i've been awake from 2.15. everyone else is asleep. this is the 6th night in a row like this. desperately trying to keep myself from falling into an insomniac frenzy. things not great in the waitinghousehold, i'm afraid.

Oh no wg! Is it all insomnia (all 6 nights) or is some of it DDs havoc?? If it is any help (it may not be, may be annoying, sorry) my insomnia seems to have got better since I was getting it twice a week and I haven't had it much lately. I think for me it was a mental thing for me to realise that sometimes it will take me a bit longer to get to sleep than my usual head on the pillow, zonk, state of affairs.

DS has now learnt to get down from standing which is most annoying. He was pulling himself up and then playing standing up for ages as he didnt' know how to get down. But now he can get down he is causing much more trouble!! Oh and he has his first tooth! Late starter I know but I couldnt' believe how excited I got when i saw it!!

big hug for you wg sl i am the least well travelled person ever so can't help you i'm afraid. i was ultra proud of myself for making the epic journey from york to stratford!
well it's 6 days until I start my new job and I've still not managed to contact anyone wo can tell me anything about it! I don't know about my day off, no idea what to wear or even where and when to be on my first day! Anyway I'm assuming \i need to look smart yet approachable so what does that mean? I've only ever worn a uniform for work before and live in jeans at home, so I'm off to town this afternoon (dh has agreed to keep the dds at home with him!) to trawl the charity shops in search of suitable things...
Must go now as P has been nappy free on the carpet for some time now so I think I'll be pushing my luck to leave her any longer! I had to give her a post-breakfast bath - it's amazing the mess that 1 yoghurt and 1 satsuma can make

see you later. WG really hope you can get some rest today - any response on your MN plea for sleep experts?

congrats on the tooth babySL! We're still all gums here
There should be a toothless grin emoticon!

trace at your job!!! i really hope they sort it out soon.

Clothes-wise i would have thought you will eventually be able to get away with smart jeans, but I would get some plain trousers and shirts or something to tide you over until you have sussed out the dress code. I think the nurse at my (secondary) school used to wear a nurse uniform actually.

Just a very quick post for SL re security. We travelled by train to Germany so didn't encounter any such restrictions but I think that all semi-liquids and creams will be prohibited. I would bring sterilised bottles and buy cartons and nappy cream after security. You could bring the water in the bottles and just taste it though I suppose. It probably depends on the officer on duty! Bottles of food should be OK I should think.

Oh and hurrah for a tooth!

Hope your nights have improved trace, could L have pulled a muscle in her chest?

Back later.

Good morning all have kind of managed to catch up but can't remember much as am still a bit tired and sugar starved from the ride. But can remember Trace's horrid few days with sick kids Inc DH and indith is back and also lovely to hear from NSBB and also NJAN popped up again. But where is Spiggy.

Lady I am still appalled at your employers but hoping this meeting will be some hope, maybe they've decided to respect you the way you bloody well should have been already, they should be worshiping you they are lucky to be breathing the same air as you, thank goodness for your lovely lawyer friend. I think it is wonderful when people give their expertise and time like that. Though he seems to have WG's insomnia problems.

WG I'm worried about your insomnia, do you think you should speak to someone about it. I don't mean like get drugs for it but are their techniques you can use to help settle you to sleep. If it's stress maybe it would help to get a referral to a counselor or something???

Hello to Arti and Syb I can't remember what I was going to say to you but hello.

And PMK how's that moving stuff all going?

Well the ride was amazing, I did 3 of the 4 days the while lot was about 240 miles and I did 190 of the hilliest bit, I'm sure 70% of the time I was cycling up hill. It was really hard and I had to dig deep many times but it was really a fanatstic experience. Probably the hardest thing though was leaving the boys. I would give DS2 a feed at 8.30am then ride off around 9 then meet them for lunch then a feed then he would get another one until we pulled in around 5-6 pm. He made up for it overnight though and has unfortunately gone from a sleep through the night baby to a waking for feeds baby but hopfully that will settle. The biggest revelation though was how much he missed me. DS1 was a very expressive baby but with DS2 I've not been that sure if he is that bothered whether its me with him or DH I think with DH around so often he seems to love being with him and I'm there just for food. But being away from him made me realize he does need me around for more than milk. Whenever he saw me again he be in my arms in a shot snuggling into me and smiling up at me it was really lovely. I'm not sure if I've explained that very well but it was a good thing. DS1 was great sometimes if I was finding it hard and hills were bad they would all drive beside me or stop ahead and wait for me and cheer me on it was really helpful. DH really enjoyed having sole care of the boys for 3 days and really understands now how the attention thing, is giving so much attention to 2 people can be do draining.

Oh gotta go DS1 calling, he's got a good idea he needs help with.

Morning all, veggie you absolute star for doing so much cycling and the hills in particular...! And that is sooo sweet about DS2. It must be lovely to know just how much he loves you [fluffy] and also good that your DH understands the job you do as well!

LadyT am joining everyone else in being livid at the crap your employers are trying to pull. Really hope the meeting goes well and it sounds as if this lawyer pal is going to be brilliant.

SL hooray for the tooth! Re sudocrem, could you decant some into a smaller container like a film canister or some such so it would be under the 100mls limit? Or do you still have one of the mini pots out of the bounty pack?

trace/NJAN/Indith sympathy to you all, not feeling very articulate this morning in terms of advice but we're all here to listen and be the basket whenever needed.

trace good luck with the new job preparations! You'll be fantastic

WG massive hugs darling, like veggie says is there any help you can get with the insomnia? Have you had any suggestions for a Mrs Sleep?

news from us, have found a few babysitters with possible vacancies so we're going visiting in the next week to see if there's someone that dd will love being with. Am feeling a bit more optimistic about it all. Oh and tooth no. 3 has finally reared its pearly head, just a little smidge but she's stopped having glowing cheeks and dribbling everywhere!

Veggie - the bike riding sounds incredibly impressive! I feel like a pathetic collection of aches and pains at the mo, without even had the excuse of having actually done anything, so doubly impressed...

WG, trace and others so sorry you're having tough times - its hard isn't it? DS is just about to sprout his second round of teeth, so its been quite a few disturbed nights here as well. What we have discovered is that when I've had enough of trying to soothe mister, my stinky pyjama top seems to be an adequate mummy substitute. He goes from screaming in protest at going back in the cot to a little whimper and a cuddle with my nightwear and falls asleep. For a little while anyway.

This morning both my children outdid themselves in the mess stakes. First, made the mistake of opening DD's nappy assuming there wouldn't be anything much in it and being proved wrong, nappy contents firmly splatted on the carpet. Then DH wasn't fast enough changing DS, who escaped across the room, and you guessed it, left a trail on the carpet, which he was keen to go pack and inspect. When we finished all that, DS splatted porridge everywhere for breakfast and got halfway through my morning at work, only to discover I was covered in crusted porridge. Its the relentlessness of it all that gets me sometimes.

Invis I'm so sorry but I am having a good giggle at your unfortunate morning. With the surprise poo I can completely sympathize we got a fair bit on the hotel sheets the day of the start of the ride. Also DS2 loves sticking his hand straight down to his balls when I unwrap him which are quite often caked in poo, so now I have to try to hold his legs up, keep his hands out, stop him flipping over onto his front and wipe and change his nappy all with 2 hands.

SL I forgot about your flight question, which airport are you flying from, how strict they are varies between airports. I would probably pack your formula for the trip into your main luggage and then take cartons on board but buy them after security. It might be worth checking the airport website to make sure they have a boots on the other side. The FFers might have better advice though. With the baby food they usually get you to taste it and you need the sudocream in a container under 100 ml even though it's a cream. Boots now sells small sizes of lots of things like creams and contact lens solution for flights. It doesn't matter if you don't have much sudocream in a large container either if the container is capable of carrying more than 100 ml they won't allow it. Also some airports don't provide the clear bags anymore for

I'm currently trying to put DS2 to sleep but he has just discovered that he can climb up into our bed (we still haven't put his cot together so since moving out of the hammock he is on a cotbed mattress on the floor until we go to bed). He thinks he's king of the world and keeps climbing up and then giggling at me. He thinks it's all very exciting and sleep seems a bit boring for him. I'm desperate to get him to sleep cos I'm hungry and want my dinner!

hello.
Well my girl-free afternoon was pleasant but not so successful. I got one skirt which is lovely (only £12 in dorothy perkins) and a couple of tops which aren't really me but thought might be alright for work. Not used to looking smart! I met up with a friend for coffee though so that was nice. It's a girl from my ex-work and she told me some bad news - one of our other friends from work has just been told she has 3 tumours in her brain and one in her chest . She's going to have chemo and then take it from there - not sure if they're going to be operable. She's only my age and has 2 young boys. I can't really take it in. A friend from church died of cancer last week (leaving 2 little boys) and it's her funeral tomorrow, and another friend (with 5 kids!) has just started her chemo too for breast cancer. It's all so sad. Makes you really count your blessings.
veggie your ds2 sounds like a real gymnast! P still has no desire to stand or put any weight through her leggies, but is quite a speedy crawler now . Hope you get your dinner soon. We just has one of those fresh pasta packets with a stir-in sauce - very lazy but very yummy!

Anyone else for the Yorkshire meet up tomorrow?

trace I'm so sorry to hear about your friends . I really hope they come through the chemo, and I will be thinking of you tomorrow.