June 2008: Nine months in, nine months out

[Essie3]

Here's to the next nine months!

Tell AB to bugger off!

Thanks for the advice I will try tonight leaving him for at least 5 mins and if I can bear it longer otherwise i might wait until Friday as you suggested Sponge. When he wakes at 4ish he doesn't really wake, he doesn't stand up just grizzles with his eyes closed. I have done an experiment and I fed him a pot of creamed porridge at 6.30 before his bath to see if it might have been hunger waking him. He scoffed the lot and a baby biccie so he must have been hungry. Also gave him half a bottle of milk. We'll see what happens as I noticed on his nursery sheets that he only ever ate half of his tea. Wish me luck!!

Sponge - you must be so excited about tomorrow. My sis has her 11 week scan on Monday - I hope you both get the brilliant news you want.

Hmm, thought for a second it could be a friend of mine by mistake since I use to live there but no AB's living in Vancouver that I know...

Amber - early waking is very very hard. DS1 did this when he was older and we found that if he was woken up an hour earlier than normal, he'd fall into a deep sleep and sleep through his wake up time (for us it meant waking up at 4:30 to rouse him gently so that he'd sleep through his 5:30 eake up). But he was two then and babies have very different sleep habits to the rest of us so I'm not sure it'd work.

Rolf - how old is your DS1 again? I am both dreading and excited about when my boys get independence. I want them to be little forever, but at the same time, the idea of time to myself sounds intoxicating.

josey - the squiggle looks fantastic!

I had a lovely day with the boys today and am really feeling good (tired but mentally v. happy) - which after a few weeks of feeling down and anxious is very nice! I think other people are having tough times so I'm sending hugs.

Aw Rolf, how old is he?

Amber, when he wakes tomorrow morning, go into him and lie him down and say 'shh, time for sleep'. Stay for a couple of mins just shushing/patting him if you want. Leave, then go back 5 mins later and do exactly the same thing. Then go back after 10 mins, then 20 mins and then every 20 mins (or every 5mins is fine - that's what Sponge did and it worked fine). I don't think it really matters on the timings as long as you are consistent in that you settle him back down and say 'time for sleep' and don't get him out of the cot. It might be an hour or even two the first day you do it but then the next day it will be shorter then shorter still and then he should be sleeping through. I would also say do it at the weekend but you are going to be up with him anyway so you might as well do it tomorrow. Good luck! It is hard cos they can't half wail but it is short-term pain for long-term gain!

I went to the doc with Esther today and he says its not chicken pox but a bacterial infection. He has given me cream for it and says its contagious, but it hasn't spread on her, just three spots she's got, and Theo hasn;t got it even though they share a bath! So I am not convinced it is that but I am not convinced it is cpox either. Will see if the cream does the trick. They both ate a bit better today but have been very unsettled this evening so I am off to bed now cos I am knackered! They were up three times between them last night .

It's CC for them two when they are better

x-posted there - good luck Amber!

I know how you feel Aberdeen. Glad you feel better now. Me too

Just to say - be thinking about you tomorrow Sponge.

fingers crossed sponge and sending hugs...

just hanging around waiting for Sponge ...

Yes, I am thinking about Sponge too.

The sleep HV is coming this morning...wondering what she will say.

I am also thinking about a friend who I was meant to visit this afternoon. She is a couple of days overdue and she texted this morning to say not to come as things are happening...

I'm here waiting for news from Sponge too!
Also excited for your friend, Ali. I still don't know why I get excited/envious when friends are pregnant or having babies, because I had a terrible pregnancy and giving birth wasn't the best day out I've ever had!
Also I think back to the very recent eight months of no sleep...we must be mad!

Ali good luck with the sleep HV. We were all set to consider CC (well Tim not me, I'm too pathetic) but Iestyn slept through once, thus leaving his guard down and demonstrating he could do it. After that, we decided not to feed him at night. Basically my advice to you is no advice, just demonstrating how totally random we are in this house! Do you feed Peter at night?
Also a big confession - Tim was settling Iestyn when he woke to feed in the night out of habit (it was habit, because after 2 nights he stopped doing it and hasn't done it since!) and I kept saying 'oh I'll feed him', and Tim refused to let me. And then I cried when I realised I won't be feeding him at night any more! Totally mad, clearly!
BTW, when Iestyn woke in the night the night before and I was all alone, I tried to feed him...and he wouldn't have it! So I think not feeding at night was the right decision. For us, anyway.

Hope things go quickly for your friend Ali and tell us what the HV says

Essie - I still feel like that when I hear of women going into labour - weird eh?

Last night started really badly, Ethan was inconsolable for about half an hour after he'd gone to bed, eventually got him settled. then he and Tristan took it in turns to cry until we went to bed - don't know what was up with Tristan as he isn't poorly(yet).I kept ignoring Ethan , went to bed, woke up when I heard him, before I could get to him he'd shut up and amazingly we woke him up this morning - he had slept through - still cried but gone back to sleep on his own. Thought he'd be desperate for milk this morning - no he just had a tiny feed, and is having his morning nap. I've managed to do 1.5 hours of ironing Stefan still ill but hoping to be better for big school ski race tomorrow

Sorry - long, me me me post

Argh!!!!!!! 3.45am!!!!!!!!!! It's getting earlier. I left him at 3.45 then I left him at 4.15 I dummied him at 4.45 because I though I might die or throw Luke out of the window. He was up and in the living room at 5.20. CC starts full on on Friday night. At least at the moment I get to doze between wakings. See he did go back to sleep but I still woke up with the noise. I need to go slightly deaf for this to work out. He can settle himself but I still wake up anyway.

i have texted Sponge and am waiting to hear back - God I hope everything is OK for her.

any news from Sponge? fingers and toes crossed here...

Essie and Deb thank-you for saying what you did about hearing of other people in labour. My original post said that as well as being excited for my friend it also made me feel a bit sad because I was induced and never got to experience a natural labour. I typed it all, but then deleted it as I thought it came across as a bit pathetic and self-indulgent.

Deb can't believe that you put a next to 1.5 hours of ironing. Surely the two are incompatible?

As Neenz predicted the HV said to do CC. I feel that I am now ready to go for it as I know that I have tried for the last two months to take a gentler approach, and it's not working. She said some other interesting things too - in terms of day time BFs to only feed twice all day plus bedtime. Does anyone have any views on that? Essie what would Sharon BF guru sa do you think? She was good though. I felt she knew her stuff, and was humane as well. The question is whether to start tonight when DH is out on the lash, or whether to wait till Friday night when DH will still be knackered after a night out and a trip to Dudley for work tomorrow.

Amber sorry to hear about your early start. Have you heard of something called "wake to sleep"? Basically you set your alarm for an hour earlier than Luke is waking. You wake him up enough to see his eyeballs, and then leave him. It is meant to reset his sleep clock and he should sleep longer after three nights. I haven't tried it so can't vouch for it, but there was a thread on the sleep boards about it a few weeks ago. I've searched the archives for you but can't find it though. Sorry.

Essie I do know what you mean about feeling sad about not feeding in the night. Remember: it is mad though . You will just have to go and have another baby

Hope Sponge is ok.

Amber - sorry you had another bad night. Me too, and my eyes are itchy with tiredness.

Neenz - hope your 2 are better soon.

DS1 is 9, and in year 4. I phoned a friend last night whose son is with him and she was finding it difficult too. She even had the teacher's mobile number as they know each other socially and said she was forcing herself not to phone!

hello to everyone else!

Ali was just going to respond to your previous post but now I'm ignoring you for suggesting I have another baby! I can't cope with one!!

No, interesting that you should ask about Sharon's opinion, because this came up. I told the group that I decided he was only feeding at night out of habit. Now, remember that Sharon is as baby-led feeding as is humanly possible, and puts the baby totally in charge of bfing (this is a caveat, really!), but she sort of rolled her eyes and didn't seem hugely impressed! I managed to stop flagellating myself to think it through. From her BLbf view, Iestyn is in charge. And if Iestyn wants to feed at night, he wants to feed at night. But in reality he's not feeding because he's hungry, and it really must have been just a habit because it was broken! If it was comfort, he manages without it, and he's not losing weight. So go for it.
(Mind you, that's easy for me to say because I think I was just lucky, and Iestyn wasn't a good sleeper but he was a good settler, in that once he was fed he settled (but it could be up to 5 times a night though!) and so CC wasn't too hard because it's the settling that's the problem. This isn't smugness, it's me saying that I can't really claim success on this one because the problem wasn't as bad as what others have been going through.)
Feeding during the day - I've discussed this with Sharon and my brilliant HV (am I the only one with a fabulous HV?!). Sharon said Iestyn will indicate the number of feeds he needs. True, but he's not always accurate! However, he feeds morning, after lunch or afternoon if I'm with him, sometimes another afternoon one, and bedtime. When he's at nursery/with Mum, he gets morning, afternoon c. 4.30, and bedtime. However, Mum says he's usually arching his back and unsettled i.e. needs a bf at 4.30 if I'm not there on time. Whether that's hunger or comfort, I don't know. Do you have 'signs' with Peter or do you have set times? My personal non-expert opinion is since you're with him all the time, feed when he demands during the day, simply because you can? And if it's set times, perhaps drop one? What do I know anyway!
Oh, if you're dropping night feeds, then I found it helpful to make sure Iestyn actually eats loads in the day. For my peace of mind, so that he's really not hungry! He now demands more breakfast!

I'm typing a long one in the hope Sponge makes contact whilst I'm doing it!

Oh, another top tip with CC or whatever. Is there any chance that you - Ali, Amber can get your DPs to do it? That's what I did, using the 'I bf for x months' card. I also used my 'it's impossible for me to settle him without bfing' Joker. (Sorry, Amber! An alternative card is the 'I do all the caring' one, but my DH only plays cards because he's a softie and has a somewhat Catholic guilt complex about everything! ) And my baby sleep book says start any new thing on a weekend, because there's two of you, including during the day, and you don't have to do other things etc.
Mind you, maybe not tonight as crying babies are murder for hangovers. Depends how much you care about his hangover, Ali?

Sorry, I've taken an entire page almost with my pointless ramblings.

Essie not pointless ramblings, interesting in fact. Thank-you.

I agree about DH doing CC. However we are on holiday in 10 days and I kind of want to get cracking. Also if we have bad nights Thursday, Friday, Saturday, then hopefully Sunday night wont be too bad for DH. He is working exceptionally hard at the moment and is quite stressed (which is unusual for him, he is generally very laid back) so I don't want to make things any harder for him than absolutely necessary. I also feel that having mentally decided to go for CC, it feels quite frustrating not starting it. I had decided a few days ago really, but was holding back till the HV came today just in case she said anything surprising.

Sharon obviously has an attachment parenting philosophy, which is something that I have a great deal of sympathy for as you know. I think P is waking hourly not out of a need for comfort anymore, but because we have established a very strong "suck to sleep" habit, and he has no other way of settling himself back again.

In terms of daytime feeds, I feed on demand, so if he grizzles I try a BF to see if that sorts it. My other problem is that Peter only naps if I BF him to sleep. Again, this has to stop, so I am feeling sad that my afternoons curled up with P, snoozing together need to stop if I want his sleep to improve overall. Oh well. Also, when am I going to get to catch up on Sky+??

Ali I know exactly what you mean about starting CC. I'd made the decision to do it and stop feeding Iestyn and night, but I waited for Tim to come back, and I was really annoyed and impatient until he did. Plus I was also thinking in terms of 'on the weekend Iestyn will be sleeping through and everything will be wonderful'...slightly deluded there! Be brave, we'll support you!
Also, you have the term I was looking for, attachment parenting. It's all very well, but I think there comes a point when you have to draw the line...I've been there, you're there now maybe?

Message from Sponge:

Spongelet was there in the sac and we're pretty sure we saw a heartbeat but doctor won't commit and wants to scan again next week. We are cautiously optimistic.

PS I like the idea of waking him up an hour before and him then going back to sleep - I might actually try that tonight.

Sponge - well I'm more than cautiously optimistic - that's great news, but it's going to be a long weeks wait isn't it? How are you feeling? Still tired?

I too think that is more than slighty good news, its great news! well done sponge. My goodness but that week is going to drag for all of us though isn't it?

Fingers crossed for Sponge. Waiting another week sounds terribly hard. Pregnancy is all one big waiting game though isn't it? Waiting and vomiting: what a great combination.

Thanks Essie for the offer of moral support...I will be needing it.