October 2007 These Little Piggies chased the easter bunny..and stole the eggs

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Hiya

Cooeeeee!

Ooh, a nice fresh thread for the new year

Dal, yep and soon there will be babies smothered in chocolate lol

Hello!

How many posts can you get on one of these threads then? You always seem to know when we are going to run out!

1001

Hi all, can't stop as have friends coming over for a meal. Just wanted to say LES - I hope the school sort out the bullies

Just a quickie from me...

LES really sorry to hear about karl - must be awful to have to watch people treat your son like this. I would have to be physically restrained from going and wacking them one and asking them how they liked being bullied. Well of course I would never actually do this to a child but i would bloody well want to! Good luck getting the school to take it seriously...

Dal I think the way you handled your parents was spot on and the fact your dad supported you in the main is a big plus. Knowing what your mum has been like in the past it couldn't really have gone any better and at least now she knows you are not going to put up with any shit.

Off to have tea now.... Maybe back later xxx

Alice it is dreadful. I have had many a run in with parents after asking them to teach their child some self control. and not to be a bully. aside from his brightness he stands out because he (please nobody take offence) is the only white in his class and only one of 5 in the entire school. I know that sounds silly but he does stick out and is singled out. Because he has bad hearing (perforated ear drums caused him to be partial hearing in one ear) he is sat on his own at the front of the class. He also cannot play the same games as others as he has reflex anoxic seizures, which mean if he hurts himself he can pass out. So he is sometimes the outsider. Sadly because these things cannot be seen by others they cannot understand, even staff have had difficulty understanding.

I have had to stay away from the school previously for fear of battering a child who had attacked him...ok i wouldn't really but you know what i mean!

We viewed the 2 houses today and they were both lovely, the first being perfect but too far away, the second being closer but the 2nd bedroom would have been too small for the 2 boys. So we are looking again.

J20, Grant said what are you and Rich doing next weekend the 24th? as he has said he will drive me to yours!!! even if it is for a few hours lol.

He is my little chauffer lol and will take me to meet any of you anytime i want!!!1

found you!

We are having problems with Ollie at school and at home (is it the time of year I wonder?) he's not listening, smart comments, not doing tasks he's been asked to do. He mucked around twice in assembly last week (they only have 2 so both) told off by deputy head then carried on...
I think they're not being tough on him if a child mucks around when I was teaching they wold lose the right to chose where to sit as they would be sitting next to me till they behaved and I could trust them. His writing is fine at home yet he doesn't do it at school -what are their sanctions? How do they get him to do the work they want from him? On friday I spoke to his teacher and she called him over and said 'let's try really hard today and see if we can earn a sticker for being good....' He doesn't respond to stickers, he doesn't give two hoots and why is everything these days reduced to earning bloody stickers????? What happened to 'please will you do x, if not then y will happen.' I also think that they need to be specific with Ollie, he needs to know what is expected not that he has to be 'good' as he can interpret that in his own way and not what the teacher actually wants him to do. I ask him to look at me when I speak to him and I am sepcific in what I want him to do -put the bottles out, tidy his room etc.
Am I too hard?
School says he's tired and that he's settling back into the routine from the holidays...it's been a week and 3 days, how long does he need???? We feel they aren't 'getting him' like his nursery teacher did. She kept him away from activities until she had the required behaviour and he lost privalidges also.

What we are doing;

No telly, 1 programe a day that has to be earned.

Bed at 6 all this week (started last fri) can earn a later time from next week after behaviour improves. If behaviour slips, time will be lost.

Helping round the house more (this has really helped in the short time since friday!!!) He has to tidy his room and put his toys away (other little jobs throughout the day such as putting milk bottles out, putting his cup/bowl/plate on the side to wash, setting the table etc)

reading his book

practising his letters (school want him to write words yet his letter formation isn't great so seems a bit daft to me)

We ask him to try his best and have made it not about acheiving.

He aksed 'how does the water connect with my finger?' when he was placing his finger on a drop of water yesterday. This is the boy they are trying to get to 'be good' by giving him stickers???????

Dal -I will reply re your parents!!! I've just lost the plot with Ollie at the mo xxx

Muppet - Sorry to hear you are having a touch time with the school and Ollie. From what you say it sounds like he is not 'being naughty' but they just aren't guiding him in the right way. I think they need to give him clear boundries. Maybe he doesn't know what exactly is expected of him so is just feeling a bit lost and also uninspired by their 'sticker' method. they need to give him some direction, something to focus all his mental energy on.

He sounds very curious, intelligent and inquisitive for his age so probably an element of him being bored too?

I think you are doing all the right things and if the teachers aren't 'getting' him then maybe they need it specifically pointing out to them what kind of interaction he needs to respond as they would like.

You're doing what you can at home so maybe if the teachers change their tactic's then after a little bit of time hopefully he will settle down.

Hope it gets sorted soon, I haven't been there myself (yet) but i'm sure I will be one day. x

Just read that back and realised it sounded a bit bossy , wasn't meant to be, honest!

On the subject of my little 'bleed', it has gotten heavier to I think it's just my af, 8 days early .

Feeling a bit sad about ttc, we're not going to try next month as I don't want the baby born too close to, or even on Dylans 2nd birthday (my dates work out that i'd be due 24th oct, his birthday is 30th). So i'm gonna have to wait what seems like aaaaages till we can try again. Oh well, suppose it all happens for a reason.

Muppet fwiw it sounds as though you are doing a fantastic job with Ollie - you are doing everything I would hope to do myself 9and have started to with Sam already) so obviously you are brilliant! certainly not being too hard - my firm belief is the happiest children are the ones with clear boundaries and as you say understanding of exactly what is expected of them and not somethihng wooly like 'be good' Hopefully you will be able to help his teachers understand what makes him tick (even though it doesn't sound like rocket science to me either) and then his behaviour will improve.

Dal sorry to hear you're prob not pg. And good luck once you start trying again!

Hello everyone else! I have had a fun am with Sam at a soft play party - i am totally worn out! Dh took Adam swimming and they were both asleep when I got home! Just off to have my lunch then I need to do a bit of tidying up as we have friends coming over later. may catch you later xxx

Muppet - is this part of the culture where schools are reluctant to recognise success/failure but make sure that every child is rewarded in some way? (Load of nonsense if you ask me.) Agree with everyone else - I think children need boundaries and clear directions - it's obviously working for you at home. Hope things get sorted.

Anya's better today and is quite happy amusing herself for a bit. Am a bit concerned she's not out at playgroups at all at the moment, she's only getting adult company - I'm just not organised enough. Must try and find some places to take her at weekends - do softplay places tend to be packed at the weekends or does it vary quite a lot?

LES-have mailed you on FB. about the bullies, i know when dd1 was being bullied by the neighbourhood kids when we first moved here, it took all my restrain not to go out and shout at them all and threaten to rip their heads off but things seem to have settled down now.
Inzi-so sorry about your GD, {{big Hugs}}
Dal-I am also very proud of the way you handled your parents, I would have kicked off in that situation i think.
Muppet-he sounds such a clever little boy, can you speak to the teacher and explain that he needs sanctions not stickers, or see if his nursery teacher can have a word?

as you can see i've had a name change, i'm sure you can work out who it is-hopefully Mr nosy wont be reading MN anymore, don't know if he'd dare after the dressing down he got.

sorry to those i haven't mentioned, suffering from a bit of a hangover today (i really must learn to control my binge drinking!) so will try and read everything properly later with a clearer head

Like the name change needcoffee...I can see me doing the same in the near future for the same reasons
dal I think you handled your mother wonderfully
...bother got to go...

AM lost - why are people changing names?

Was saying to DH how I was worried I would miss Dareh's first steps. Walked into the kitchen where I was preparing tea and DH shouted at me to come through. Dareh was standing on his own in the middle of the living room and took two tiny little steps! Just after I had said that - he must have heard me! They were tiny and I missed the first one as I was walking through but saw the second.

Sooooo tempted to phone SIL just to hear her make some story about her DD having run a marathon or something.

Needcoffee I know who you are and like the name! I fancy a name change too - sometimes it would be nice to not be so obviously me on here! Wouldn't say anything dh couldn't read but its more that I could then talk about friends and people who could possibly be on here but don't without name changing first...

Can't think of a good one though!

I have had the same thought alice - sometimes I am so honest on here that I would prefer something a little less obvious.

Today was a lot better...

Dh took Ollie swimming (he got his pastry as a treat as we said he had to earn it by listening and trying his best)
Then they went shopping, came home and lunch. Did his writing then chill and play with toys. We went to Homebase to buy seeds and pressure washing stuff for the patio, then home for a play with toys and chill. Dh and Ollie then pressure washed the patio (Ollie LOVED this as it was 'man's work' with dh ) Ollie coloured in and drew and cut out while dh cooked dinner. Ollie was allowed his 1 TV programme, ate dinner bath then bed with a story as he'd earned it. He's had 30 mins of telly since Fri. morning and it's been fine so we're going to carry it on. If he's had a good day then he can choose 30 mins of tv OR 30 mins of his star wars game. Any messing at school and he gets nothing.

As for the sticker crap rubbish they do at school I think it's total tosh. I worked in a very tough school where the children were tying the smaller children to trees with skipping ropes and nicking the play equipment (there was more but that's just an illustration!) and the dinner ladies were going to implement a system where those who didn't offend at lunch time got a sticker. Those who never did anything wrong didn?t get anything. I said, sorry what a load of rubbish how is this setting them up for how society behaves? No-one gets a sticker or other such 'prize' for not hitting someone you just have expected standards of behaviour that we should all aspire to. 'Not hit anyone today??? Well done! Have a sticker!! Ludicrous imo. Children who are 'stickered' too often can start to expect the reward and don?t start an activity until they've asked 'what do I get?' Some even refuse to work until they know what they'll get which surely is counterproductive?
Yes, if they really tried, really achieved or gone out of their way to help someone then of course there should be some sort of reward system to praise that -we have that in society but I hate it when we patronise children by giving them rewards for things that shouldn't be rewarded. Sorry, rant over. I hate the bloody sticker system, can you tell?

Dal - you were fab re your parents and it sounds like you and dh came across as very much a unit. If you meet up again maybe have a stock phrase prepared for the 'when will see you again? such as 'I don?t want to upset anyone and I know how important it is for you to know you will see us again but it's hard to fix a date without thinking about it first and we wouldn't want to cancel as we had double booked...
Or you could be completely honest and say that you find it difficult when they ask you as you feel put on the spot and pressurised so could they not ask.
It sounds like your mum really did actually try to keep to the rules but lost it right at the last minute though she does show by what she said that she's still not over what happened and isn't even contemplating that she's even slightly in the wrong. What will you do for future meetings as this will come up some stage in the future? Did you tell your brothers? What did they think?

Les - very hard situation for you...My brother (the middle one, not the very popular one with the surprise daughter who has the morals of an alley cat ) was badly bullied physically and mentally. The school thought he 'brought it on himself' as he was 'a quiet boy'. What cured it was moving schools and growing to 6 foot 6. He had to go back to the original school to do a levels where the boy came and tried to shake his hand whereas my brother promptly flattened him. Never a problem again. He still talks about it now as being a hellish time and I think most people who are bullied never forget.
Does Karl do any sports? Maybe this would help as it's seen as an acceptable thing for a boy to do. Have you thought about a self defence discipline like judo, karate ect. This may help him give off 'don?t mess with me vibes' without actually him having to get physical.
I would also keep a log and write all the incidents, what when where ect and maybe specific lessons, who was involved and what they said. Take it to the teacher or head and you are then presenting them with hard evidence which makes you appear much more determined and less easy to fob off. You will have a document that you can give to the governors (don?t forget they employ all the teachers including the head, not the lea) and anyone else you choose. Remember to record how the bullying is making Karl feel.
Give it a time limit so Karl knows there is an end. Have a look at the anti-bullying policy and see if you can quote back to them their failings using their own documentation, you can include this in your incident log as it all helps.
This may sound heavy but it sounds like Karl needs something more and the school don?t want to consider it as it is a verbal discussion between you and them and nothing is on paper. Btw, any meetings you have with the school take notes and get them to sign them before you leave the meeting as it will be a record of who said what and also their response to what you said. If they won't then note this (but you have put the willies up them which is what they need) They may get formal with you and surprise you with independent witnesses in any future meetings so always ask who will be at the meetings you agree to with school and if they are to have a witness, then you can too.

He brought it upon himself by being quiet? WTF??!!! Since when is it a crime to be quiet? I mean I know it might make you more vulnerable but if one of my boys were being bullied and the school came out with this I might ahve to be physically restrained from smacking them in the mouth!!!! Excellent advice though muppet - I will remember that in case we need it in the future (here's hoping not)

Alice I know. Looking back I can't help thinking WHAT the heck were my parents thinking???? He's 35 so this was in the '70's but my brother still talks about it now as hell. It's made him appear to be very awkward these days though as he won't so anything he doesn't want to, fights tooth and nail for his point of view but this is his way of giving himself confidence.

I still don't think there's enough of learning how to get on with people but also learning how to get on with people you don't actually like at school. These are life lessons that are very important. I think there will always be a smatering of those who actually like to bully but I think a lot of it stems from how children talk to each other in the first place. If you over hear older children talking to each other you often find they don't have actual conversations more of who can out sarcasm the other. It's not really conversation as such. I can't speak for teenagers -crochet would be your expert- but till year 6 I defnintely saw this on a regular basis and this isn't class selective as the well off and those without were exactly the same. Is it TV? No, or very little, coversation at home? Lower expectations in school? Computer games? Less family time? I have noticed a HUGE difference in the Cbeebies channel and CBBC in that the programmes do have this mock sarcasm whreas Cbeebies doesn't at all. There seems to be a massive leap and I don't like it.

God I'm a lecturous bore tonight! (not sure that is actually a word but you know what I mean!)

x posted Inzi

I can't think what you must be going through
I would say that if there is ever a time when you get a chance to say what you want to say to someone before it's too late then this is really the time. I can't think how hard it will be but if I were you I'd try...

He may have things he wants to say to everyone too xxxxxxx

SO sorry try should really be have a go (try sounds way to harsh xxx)

Inzi sending you big hugs honey.

I don't think there is a right way to be about this. The one thing I have heard people say about how people react when they have been given bad news (terminal illness for example) is that people avoid them because they are scared of upsetting them and that this is more upsetting in fact.

Sounds as though you are not doing this at all - you are being there for him and I think that is all you can do. I can understand you not wanting to get upset but fwiw I don't think it would be the end of the world for your grandfather to know how upset you are by this so if you find yourself getting upset in front of him I would personally admit that is how you are feeling rather than just scuttle off.

That is me though - you need to do what feels right.

Massive hugs xxx

Inzi what is it you are afraid of in falling apart? Him seeing you like that? Upsetting him? You not being able to get it together again? I don't think any of these things matter if it is important to you to have this conversation with him. If however it IS important to you that these things don't happen how about writing it down and saying it like you just have?