October 2007 These Little Piggies chased the easter bunny..and stole the eggs

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Hiya

Agree with Alice xxx

Sorry I think I was being too blunt inzi - not trying to tell you what to do. I think you should do exactly as feels right to you. I think what I am trying to say is that realistically it is unlikely that you will be able to say this to him without getting upset so that if you think it is important to you to say it then perhaps accepting you will get upset but that this is ok (in fact appropriate in the cirumstances!) might help you to have that conversation. Perhaps even joke that you are cross with him that he is having to go to such lengths to break through your normally jokey relationship?

Good luck honey xxx

People are (understandably) often very scared of upsetting those they love who are suffering with a terminal illness but actually the upset is a reflection of the feelings you have for the person involved - from a film whose name I forget now is the quote 'the pain now is part of the happiness then' (or something like that anyway) Basically you wouldn't take away the upset would you because if you did it would be also to take away all the fantastic memories of the time you were lucky enough to spend together. no upset would also mean no happy memories of your grandad - to me it would be a no brainer to take the heart wrenching upset everytime

Still agree with Alice xxx
Also, I don't think anyone could have such an emotional conversation with someone they loved dearly so you're not alone or strange in how you feel.

Glad to help honey - just wish I could give you a big hug!

xxx

Inzi! Honey! I'm crying for you too
You remind me so much of what happened when my Dad was diagnosed ... and I bitterly regret falling in with the family 'attitude' of "This is just a set back,we will fight it. The inevitable won't happen for along time. We will only talk about treatment and cure and positive things"...Do as you say;say what you can when you feel able, but dont leave it too long ...The sooner you get it out the sooner you can return to your normal and familiar jokey relationship... and if, God forbid, something happens suddenly you know he knows what he means to you.
When my friend was diagnosed she was understandably devastated but then, before the illness made her weak or even look different, she made a point of talking to her husband, her daughter, her siblings and friends about how she wanted to tackle things, how she felt about them, what she wanted in terms of support and what she wanted to do while she was still capable and what she wanted for her funeral...With it all "out in the open" and referred to as casually as a birthday or wedding anniversary it has seemed healthier than the 'dont refer to it' attitude my family adopted which also meant we didnt do the "do you remember when..?" conversations ... and what is the point of life, IMO, if you can only look forward to the seeming abruptness of the end without being able to look back through all the wonderful chapters, the experiences, relationships, laughter and love that have been the elements that made up your life.
I didnt sit down and tell my Dad exactly how much I loved him...our relationship was a bit like your with your grandad, based on jokes and teasing... I often said thoughout his life "ooowww, I love you!" but I never said "Thank you for teaching me how to laugh at life and grit my teeth through the grim bits, and make mud pies, and bash scrap metal flat, and tease remorselessly, and plumb a house, and tickle, and remove a splinter, and fun and games, and how to plant a bulb, and rough and tumble, and admire/fall in love a man who has the same priorities and work ethic, and for your support no matter what I do even if you dont comprehend it, and a million other things but especially for your totally unconditional, unreserved love...and I want you to know it is returned 100x1000 fold and always will be" ...or words to that effect... and I regret it bitterly because he deserved to hear them..... but I also bitterly regret obeying my mothers edict and not telling him Alex was on the way until I was at least 16 wks pg...if we had known how little time he had left perhaps we wouldnt have been so concerned about him worrying for me
...I'm sure you will find the right moment and the strength to say something soon...and if you cry, or if you make him cry what does it matter? It only shows the depths of your feelings. In other countries displaying your emotions is not unusual, in fact the sort of restraint we show here in Britain would be considered unfeeling and positively rude! We really shouldnt be so afraid of expressing love... why do we get so embarrassed by it?

Alex is stirring from his morning nap ... good it will shut me up and get me off my soapbox .. sorry if I ranted on, I need to go wash my face.

didnt turn to page 2 Alice has said it all so much better and more succinctly than me....

(((Inzi))) the others have given really good advice - I think it makes sense to say what you want to say to him. I am sure he will appreciate your honesty and openess and will be glad to hear what you have to say. So sorry you are going through this.

Inzi (((((Big Hug))))) As stefka has said, the others have given you some really good advice. I hope you can find the strength to get the words out. It's good you have so many happy memories together and that he is so precious to you x

Floria - Sorry for the emotional pain you went through and for the regtrets you have. I'm a great believer that peopel never really completely 'go', I'm sure your dad knew just how much he meant to you x

Muppet - Thats the bit i'm struggling with, the fact my mum isn't over what happened and won't admit it's her fault. She has kept mentioning we'll have to 'talk it out' at some point in the future but 'not when Dylan is about', so I assume she thinks it will be a heated discussion. I don't want to be forced in to such an uncomfortable situation, especially when I know she will want to pick over every detail but all from her point of view. She only wants to talk about it so she can try to convince everyone it wasn't her fault (it was).

I know for an absolute fact that she won't admit fault and therefore see no point at all in going over the past. It will definately cause further arguments as I will not take the blame for something I didn't cause she will not admit fault so we will never be able to reach a resolution.

She likes to go over the past A LOT, always has, I don't know why she would want to in this situation though. Surely she must know that we will just tell her again all the things she did wrong and she will just deny it all again.(we have written her countless emails and letters stating exactly what she has done to upset us all yet she still asks 'what have I done?' it's so bloody frustratting as we've already told her but she just justifies the things we have accused her off and makes out we got things wrong or tells lies).

Anyway, not sure how to deal with this, I already said when she stated she wanted to talk it over at some point that I don't want to do that. My dad said 'there's no rush', I get the impression he'd rather leave it in the past too.

He calls, will have to go, back later ladies, hi to everyone i've missed x

Just checking in so I don't lose you!

Inzi darling - alice and muppetgirl have said everything I was thinking. (but as usual far more succintly than I ever could)

FT - that was such moving writing. I honestly believe that your Dad knows that now - one of the great advantages of being a Christian (not going to bang on about it or anything ), is the strong belief in the afterlife.

Right, am off for some me time - will be back soon ... probably in the morning though (my 6th fomers all have module exams tomorrow, so won't be comin to their lesson!)

Floria you have just made me cry with your beautiful words that you wish you could have said to your dad. Just lovely and made me almost feel I knew a small part of him with all the lovely little personal touches. I can understand you feel bereft that you didn't get to tell him in person and agree wholeheartedly with you that going through a degree of upset to be able to be open is a GOOD thing. FWIW I am sure he knew what he meant to you but understand that this doesn't take away from the fact that you never got to tell him. Big hugs xxx

Inzi thinking of you honey...

dal thinking of you too as you battle quite a different situation with your mum. Think this one is the long haul but you have made a very good start in showing her you will not take her shit.

Lots of love to the rest of you - just cooking tea but will try to get back on later xxx

Crossposted crochet...

And your post stimulated my nosiness... Do you think we have built up enough of a relationship to be able to chat about religion and it not to get all snipy as it seems to sometimes?

I think so - one of the reasons I love you ladies is the atmosphere here that is totally non-judgemental and supportive even if someone is doing something you wouldn't do yourself in a pink fit!

Anyway I am curious as to your religious / spiritual ideals... Feel free to ignore if you wish but I shall start.

I was brought up as a christian (church of England) but over time have believed less and less. And my parents are no longer practising. I have been christened (as a baby)but not confirmed. I wouldn't describe myself as atheist, more agnostic. I guess I just can't believe that we live our lives here and then when we die that is just the end. The jury is out though as to whether I really believe there is something more or whether I am just comforting myself by believing this since the alternative - that death IS the end is not a very comforting thought. If it adds anything dh and I had a civil wedding in a lovely country house.

So that wasn't very succinct is it?!

Religion is one of those funny things - really interesting to talk about but so easy to upset people with!

I was not brought up in any faith but when I first left home was taken to church by a couple of friends where I became a Christian. At first it was brilliant - it was everything I hadn't had as a child. There was security, I loved the teaching and the worship. I felt that life made sense and that I had a source of strength to draw on at all times.

Then I got caught up in that abusive relationship I have mentioned before and the church came down on me like a ton of bricks. People gossiped about me, took it upon themselves to report me to others, blamed me for what was happening saying I was wicked and crucifying christ. It was really grim. I actually then went to bible school for a while but that was even worse. There I was clearly suffering from depression but was instructed not to see a Dr because it would be demonic, told that I just need to be well and to forget about the bad things I had been through and when I failed to do that I was told I was demonic and that my faith was bad. I had quite a few demons given to me during that time! I can laugh about it now but at the time I was bloody terrified. It was an extreemly controlling enviroment with very little understanding or compassion. In the end I broke away - went to my Dr and got some medication and some much needed therapy. Leaving the church was really painful, I grieved the loss of my faith and a lot of friends cut me off but it was also one of the best things I ever did.

Now I honestly don't know what I think. It's very hard for me to think about it to be honest!

Hah - and you thought you weren't succinct!!

alicet - I was christened but we never went to church after that, my parents were not at all religious, I think they had me christened because that's what they thought they should do.

Anyhow my dad was always of the opinion that when you were dead that was it, end of, all finished. I have always hoped there would be something more but have never dwelt on the subject too deeply.

When my dad was in hospital we were there day in day out and luckily when he took a turn for the worse (when they found out he had leukemia during all the tests they did) they let us use the visitors room overnight which had a room with a couple of beds in so one or two of us could stay all night, anyhow waffling again, sorry just remembering.

Getting to the point, the day before he died he seemed to make a miraculous recovery, he was sat up in bed he had colour to his cheeks and was really chatty and his usual jokey self, all the family came to visit including his brothers and we all said our peace, I luckily managed to tell him all I wanted (so sorry you didn't get chance FT )
By the end of the day he became very tired, my brother was sitting with him talking and my dad bought the conversation around to what was going to happen when he died, and asking my brother to look after my mum and to make sure I was ok, my brother was saying not to talk like that because he seemed so well we all thought he was going to shake off the chest infection that had bought him into hospital, then they could start treating the leukemia...

He just said that no he wasn't getting better and that his time had come, it was time for him to go, and that someone was waiting for him. My brother asked him who it was and my dad said that he couldn't make out who it was yet, they were too far away, but it was someone he knew telling him it was ok to let go and and there was nothing to be scared of anymore.

Now my dad would have never said something like that just to make us feel better and my brother wouldn't make it up. He went to sleep that night and they next day he never opened his eyes again, he went rapidly downhill a total contrast to the day before. I still can't quite believe it, it was definitely like he had rallied himself to say his goodbyes and he had exhausted himself so much that he had no fight or anything left in him, he opened his eyes for a few minutes just before he died and we were all there by his bedside and said our goodbyes, he died at 1.15am.

I now firmly believe there is something/someone waiting for us and I like to believe that it was my grandad (FiL) waiting for my dad as they were great friends and very close. Make of that what you will. I now need to get tissues as I haven't thought about this for a while and I am now a complete mess

What an amazing story LLL. I hope you are ok after sharing it. I do believe there is something afterwards, just not sure what exactly but I think it is something beautifull and good.

Stefka and Lisa thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings.

Stefka really sorry you had such a negative experience of religion and i can understand why you are undecided now

Lisa sorry if thinking about this upset you . Glad to hear that you managed to tell your dad all you wanted to. Sending you big hugs xxx

hadn't expected this to all get so emotional and I've just realised that bringing this up now might have been very insensitive to inzi - hope I haven't put my foot in it honey and that you are OK.

I have just been watching a horrific programme on BBC1 - any of the rest of you see 'hunter' which was on last night and tonight? About 2 boys who were abducted by a prolife group because their mums had had abortions in the past. Knew as I was watching it that it was going to give me nightmares but just couldn't tear myself away. just to add to the cheery vibe on here tonight!

On a more positive note I just wanted to tell you all again how valuable I find your friendships - you are all lovely ladies xxx

Hi , followed the thread across and ....wow...what amazing things people are sharing.

Firstly massive hugs to Inzi - I hope that your time with your Grandad is very special. A few years ago I had to say goodbye to someone I loved a great deal. My dh and I went to spend a day with her (turned out to be 3 days before she died) and he had written a letter to her telling her all that he wanted her to know. She had read it and we spent the day talking through it - it's one of my most special memories. It was easier for him to say it in a letter - he could barely speak he was so choked. You won't regret letting him know what you feel - I know it's so hard so I am thinking of you.

FT - you write very movingly - I'm sorry for your losses too.

I can share a few of the common themes at the moment - having some sibling stresses sil attempting to cut me out of my brother's life, my Mum being investigated for yet more cancer, my DH on cusp of a critical job interview, DD1 being bullied at school ( sorry LES for Karl - sounds really tough. Muppet gave good advice - she gave the same to me on another thread...)I'm also giving up bf and finding that quite hard emotionally. On the lighter side my lovely boy surpassed himself yesterday by balancing on his toy car whilst playing his bongo drums - unfortunately the drumming unbalanced him and he got a bit of a bump but it doesn't seem to have deterred him.
I know I post much less than many of you but I do think you're a great bunch and I like that I can come in and be part of your community. Thank you.

Sorry just wanted to add to Stefka that I'm sorry your experience of church was so awful. I'm a christian and I find stories like yours so sad as you've got to ask where was the love and compassion and concern for you? I don't believe that how it was for you is how it's meant to be. Can I suggest for anyone wondering about God that "The Shack" is an amazing book. It's a novel that has been on the American bestseller lists - gives you a different way of thinking about God.

Inzi that story is so amazing, it really made me cry. I can't imagine what that moment must have been like for you and your DH.

Katch - sorry you are having such a rough time. My brother was married to someone who didn't like me and it was really hard - I hope that you can hold onto the relationship with your brother. Hope also that your mother gets good news and that things get better for your DD.

Thank you also for saying what you said about the church. Often when I have shared my experience with Christians I have had comments such as oh well your faith can't have been real to begin with or you have to forgive them etc - very rarely have I ever heard anyone just say sorry that happened to you! I did meet some really lovely and genuine people in my time with the church too so I know it isn't all bad. I have an issue with the institution more than anything else I think, and some of the abuse of power that goes on in evangelical christianity.

This thread is so fab. I was actually going to sneak on and delete my thread because I felt a bit embarressed to have gone on like that but you guys always make me feel ok about sharing.

Up in the middle of the night to eat toast because Dareh won't sleep and has fed about a million times making me hungry! It's half past one now!