APRIL 2008 - We venture over to the 'other side'

[VictorianSqualor]

Our babies.

07 March: Ashton, a fourth child for gemprincess, 5lb 13oz @ 34+6
09 March: Ted, a second DS for Daftmoo, 7lb 14oz @ 36+0
21 March: George William, a first baby for KnitterintheNW, 7lb 2.5oz @ 37+3
25 March: Olivia, a second baby for TheMaskedPoster, 7lb 2oz @ 38+4
28 March: Pablo, a third baby and first DS for vacaloca, 7lb 14oz @ 39+4
28 March: Matteo Alexander, a first baby for Gangle @ 38+0 (?)
30 March: A baby girl, a second child for PortAndLemon, 8lb 15oz @ 39+5
02 April: Jak, a baby boy for rainbowdays, 9lb @ 39+1
02 April: A baby boy, a second child for bunyanvillas, 6lb 14oz @ 37+5
02April: Struan, a baby boy for Donnabels, 6lbs 15oz
02 April: A baby boy for mummyofaprincess @39 weeks
03 April: A baby girl for PippiCalzelunghe @38+2weeks
03 April: Aeryn Daisy, a baby girl for Denny185, 9lb 8oz @ 39+3
03 April: Benjamin, a baby boy for Micegg, 8lb 3oz @ 39+4
03 April: Roelof Grové, a first DS for Sal22, 7lb 5oz @ 38+5
03 April: A baby boy for siikibam, 6lb 8.5oz @39+1wks
04 April: Matilda, a baby girl for AprilsFoolsBaby 7lb @
06 April: Henry Peter, a baby boy for Sheds, 7lb 130z @ 40+4
07 April: Sebastian George, a fourth DS for Peachy, 8lb 4oz @ 41+1
07 April: Jack, a first baby for ThePFJ, 7lb 5.5oz @ 41+1
07 April: Lexie Bea, a fourth baby for babywhiting, 8lb 1oz @ 39+4
08 April: Alasdair, a second DS for bunnyrabbit, 8lb 5.5oz @ 40+3
08 April: James Samuel, a third baby for honeybee10, 6lb 7oz @ 37+2
09 April: Zara Mia Martin, a first baby for V1KK1M, 7lb 10oz @ 41+0
11 April: Kyran for rdk, 7lb 13oz @ 38+3weeks
11 April: Sebastian James, a second baby for Fleecy, 10lb 2oz @ 40+4
11 April: A baby girl, a first baby for CeylonSapphire, 7lb 12oz @ 41+1
12 April: Maya Alice, a first baby for egyptianprincess, 8lb 15.5oz @ 40+3
12 April: Sophia Viviana, a second DD for AussieDivaonaBreak, 6lb 12oz @ 39+3
15 April: Alexander Oliver, a third baby for VictorianSqualor, 10lb 3oz @ 41+0
16 April: Ailish, a first baby for Mollyfloss, 6lb 11oz @ 40+3
16 April: A baby girl, a second baby for elfsmummy, 7lb 13oz @ 41+1
16 April: Zoe, a baby girl, a first baby for ToastAddict, 6lb 10oz @ 39+3
17 April: A baby boy for paranoidmumy, 8lb 9oz @ 41+4
17 April: A baby boy, a second son for lorisparkle, 7lb 12.5oz @ 41+6
18 April: Millie, a baby girl for scorpio1 8lb 9oz @ 41+?
18 April: Cameron, a second baby for munchkinmum @ 39+5
19 April: Oliver Michael, first baby for bashboid, 7 lb 4 oz at 41 +3
20 April: Samuel, a first baby for Velbels. 8lb15oz at 41+1weeks.
20 April: Angharad Mai, 8lb 4oz, 40+6, first for 7monthsplus
20 April: Emilia, 7lb15oz, a first baby for SuzeM, 40+6
21 April: Eve, a second baby for Scampmum, 8lb 4oz @ 39+3
22 April: Sam, a second son for Soph73 @ 40+0
22 April: Molly, a first baby for EllieG, 8lb 8oz? @ 40+5
22 April: Daisy, second baby for AttilaTheHan @ 40 +3
22 April: Zoe Olivia, second daughter for Piccallilli2 7lb 1oz @42+1
23 April: Jessica Elizabeth, first baby for BabyBratt @ 40+1 7lb 12oz.
24 April: A baby girl, a second daughter for christmaspixie, 9lb 2oz @ 40+6/41+5
24 April: Miya Jade, baby girl for ShelleySare at 39+4
25 April: Amelie, a first baby for Dondons, 9lb, 41+3 (i think!)
25 April: Aisha, a second baby for Jaq39 7lb 14oz @ 41+4
26 April: Hope Olivia, a second dd for northeastmummy, 7lb 11oz at 41 .
26 April: Gabriel, a third child for Bainmarie @ 41+5
26 April: Eli Michael, a baby boy for LittleMissTurquoise, 7lb 15.5oz @ 40+5
27 April: a baby girl for Ayomi, 6lb 1oz @ 41+0
28 April: Jacob Andrew, a 2nd DS for Kaybeeand2boys, 8lb 4oz @ 41+5
29 April: Thomas Henry, a 2nd DS for TLSM, 7lb 8oz 40+3
30 April: Harry Samuel, a fourth ds for Chipmonkey, 9lb 5oz @ 39+2
01 May: Sophie May, a baby grl for Annieroo, 6lb 5oz @ 41+4
01 May: Euan George, a baby boy for Jenniejennie, 8lb @ 40+4
02 May: Robyn Olivia, a baby girl for soph28, 8lb 1oz @ 42+1
05 May: Nora Martina, a first baby for Eva07, 7lb 8oz @ 41+2
05 May: A baby boy for Beeper, 8lb 10oz @ 41+0
05 May: Gabriella Summer, a first baby for Mum2babyroo, 8lb 4oz @ 40+6
06 May: Wilf, 8lb 60z for bigbadmom @ 41+6
07 May: James Andrew, a second ds for Moominsmummy, 8lb 13oz @ 41+5
08 May: Ellie Isabella, a first baby for Carey87, 7 lb 8oz @ 42+1
08 May: Robin David, a 2nd baby for Woollymummy, 8lb 11 oz @ 41+3
09 May: 4 kittens for scorpio's cat!
10 May: Astrid Mary, a second dd for sagitta, 8lb 8oz @ 42+0

morning all,
I'm back and it feels sooo good

after noras arrival we had to stay at the hospital for a week as I developed a fewer during the birth and me and nora had to get antibiotics. the birth was long (17 hrs), very traumatic and painful for both of us. but now we are back home, nora had 3 sessions with an osteopath (to reduce the tension in her head, can only recommend it, helped enormously) and she is settling nicely. we've even developed a rough routine
peachy, as soon as you have time i'd love to meet you. preferably in cardiff if you don't mind, my left-driving-skills are still somewhat lacking...

snotty babies everywhere... vaporub sounds like a good idea, will try it tonight.

cheers scorpio, will have to pop out and get some vaporub later..or we may even have some baby olbas oil left from dd1

What is tongue tie?

Yawn - morning all... Well I had the WORST night ever last night. Little Missy did not go to sleep until 5am!!!!!! At 3am I cracked and went to get DH (we are in seperate rooms at the mo - me in the nursery with DD and him in main room) to take over, and to give him his due, he did and uncomplainingly - especially as he has work today. I then slept for an hour and then went back in, and still had to try settle her for another hour. Slept until 8am - bottle and then slept for another hour. She is back asleep now, and I know I should be to, but now I can't sleep!! Yesterday she slept so much so I am thinking that is why she didn't sleep last night. Any tips on keeping baby awake for a good portion of today so she sleeps tonight? Am very worried that she is turning day into night...

She is also snotty, so last night we tried the saline nasal spray and aspirator - worked a treat - even if she didn't like it so much at the time! Also have her mattress propped up (on one folded towel) - hopefully it is helping.

Hello all! Welcome LadyBee and EggandKetchup, lovely to hear from you.

PFJ - GREAT to hear from you, but absolutely gutted for you about how things have been going! I would have been sticking serious pins in a doll of my landlord, for a start! With any luck the eczema will clear up by itself - DD1 has it too, and we use Diprobase and occasionally Oilatum but mainly only bath her every three days to stop the skin from drying out. Hope things get better from here, and that someone is in the process of casting you a medal in solid gold!

Things have been a bit rubbish here. I am not sure if I'm on the edge of PND or not, but will definitely be talking to the doc at my 6 week check on Tues. What does it feel like, those who have had it? I'm not having problems bonding with Evie, but DH and I have been having huge rows still, and I am incredibly irritable and fly off the handle at the slightest provocation (but seldom unprovoked). I have angry thoughts about things people MIGHT do to p1ss me off - that's not normal, is it?

It may just be sleep deprivation - Sagitta your nights sound like mine, except she doesn't go back down after the 4ish one (this morning 5.20 so feel relatively fresh!). EandK, I can so identify with your zombie state - tbh that stopped me co-sleeping and I started sitting on edge of bed, a bit because I thought I'd squish her but also because I just wanted to be more awake - it seems she is harder to settle after each additional night feed and I was worried it was wind accumulating - if I feed lying down I find it too hard to sit up and wind her properly (shameful but true) and I pay for it later. Having said that, she's still hard to settle after the morning feed, but I THINK in general I feel better for it. Also allows DH back in bed - he is a very heavy sleeper (and pretty heavy) and I wouldn't be happy with her sleeping in bed with him there. She usually comes in at some point during the 'I'm not going to stop crying, Mum' stage in the early morning - by then he has stumbled out into the spare room.

Had a nightmare weekend with the inlaws (apart from our drink out - I got pissed woohoo!) - BIL is a sh1t (he's an orthopaedic surgeon which apparently explains a lot) and constantly pulls faces about my parenting, undermines me by saying e.g. 'Don't worry [DH], I know lots of SURGEONS who do X with their kid and they're fine' - to which obviously I would like to respond 'hmm, you're not intellectually rigorous enough to see the flaw in that argument, AND I'm expected to accept that surgeons are the authority on childrearing... WTF?', SIL is just painfully irritating. MIL and FIL came for dinner (we cooked) on Sunday (I had escaped for a walk by myself before they got there as was about to combust - was bliss! first time I've really relished being able to walk again without pushing a buggy and/or carrying a baby), then looked after DD2 (and DD1 who was in bed, of which more anon) whilst we went out for our drink. Came home a bit jolly, said very effusive thank yous and everyone dispersed. DD2 was fed (by Daddy for first time!) at about 11 and he stayed up drinking whisky with his brother and 'looking after' DD2 (who was asleep) until 2.30. Again irritating that DH was stretching the truth and looking to his brother for complicity. DD2 slept till 3.45 (longest ever without a feed) but then didn't go down again. DH came to bed but went upstairs when DD2 woke up. I took her up in exasperation at about 6.30 or something (not thinking she might be hungry again) only for him to bring her down saying 'this baby's hungry'. About 7.10, still feeding/dozing, heard DD1 start singing. Could hear people moving around and assumed someone had got her up, still in the next hour went up to DH to check a couple of times and ask him to get up. Eventually at 8.40 I wake up enough to realise poor thing is still lying in the dark and go in (DD2 has fallen asleep, finally). MIL had put DD1 to bed and put on a fucking SWIMMING NAPPY (they have MERMAIDS ON!), so the poor thing was absolutely covered in wee. Sleeping bag, sheet, mattress, soft toy - I was so upset I burst into tears. Got DH up (eventually!) to bath her and went downstairs. Made a comment to BIL and SIL about how they had obviously been awake and could they not have gone to her? I appreciate it's not their 'duty' but to me it just emphasised the fact that they had come to stay here (without asking, remember, and for nearly a week) for a holiday and not to help in any way.

I'm ranting and I'm sure I've bored you all to tears. To conclude, next day DH slept in (spare room again) so I left DD2 with BIL and SIL (who got effusive thanks from DH) and walked to nursery before breakfast with DD1 so he wouldn't be late for work, after another shite night's 'sleep'. DH takes car and leaves it (not his fault, but would have been quicker to walk) miles from station so I have to walk back via station (10 min detour?) to pick up car before getting breakfast. We have shitty phonecall (me getting annoyed he hasn't said thanks to me, or even asked if I slept OK/at all) and he hung up on me, and refused to pick up my calls/respond to messages or texts. Cue me flying off the handle, sending texts about moving out, him coming home from work, me asking an increasingly embarrassed BIL and SIL to find somewhere else to stay. BIL will barely say goodbye to me because I have upset SIL, who is pregnant. They have now gone to MIL and FIL (WHY were they not there in the first place? Oh yeah, because we are in London and closer to all their friends - they live in Scotland) and are no doubt feasting on disapproval of me. Hmm, do I sound bitter and angry?

On a more generalised note (if anyone has got this far - sorry!) - DH doesn't do anything in the night. Partly my choice as he is a sleep monster and a) takes at least 20 mins to wake up and b) will 'need' to nap the next day (better make sure it's a work night, then ). Am thinking he needs to do a whole night at some point so he knows what it is like. I genuinely think it's just words to him that I have had three blocks of one hour's sleep.

Also, advice - when DD2 wakes up at e.g. 3/4/5 and won't settle after the feed, when should I feed her again? Until now have been operating on basis of 'offer her boob, if she takes it, she's hungry' but this seems now to mean she takes a bit, falls asleep (she's knackered after being awake/crying for two hours), then is cross again in 90 mins and I don't know if she's hungry or not - worried we could easily get in a 'snacking' cycle and she's a really poor daytime sleeper so it's hard to break. Just now kept her in sling/distracted until 11 after prior feed at 8 in spite of her waking up at 9.30 - seemed to go OK and she has fed well and is now sitting in my lap and not crying. As long as she's not screaming with hunger, is it OK to extend the gap between feeds like this?

I wonder if I should mark this post for RANT paragraphs and PLEASE HELP/INFO paragraphs?

Sorry again for all my long and pathetic whinging.

Welcome back Eva.
I suggest no-one bothers to read the rest. I'm moaning

Lol Scorpio, sounds like DP as well, he got all stroppy last night cos I wasn't 'up for it' FFS, I'd has a bad night with Alex the night before, spent the whole day feeding (growth spurt time) and trying to stop DD&DS1 killing each other, we even made flipping cakes and watched a film, I was super-bloody-woman!

He comes home to tell me he doesn't like Gammon, what I'd planned for tea, and wants something different, I'll give him his due he made himself something to go with what the rest of us had anyway so no extra cooking for me, just extra meal planning and having to sort out the shopping I'd already ordered
Then I put Lex to bed, finally, and the other two, and he was watching a film, which I've seen so I came on here. He decides it's bedtime, so I go up too, but as usual, he buggers off upstairs whilst I lock up and put things in the right places, put cat out etc, so by the time I get upstairs he's in bed all comfy.
Then he gets wandering hands and when I tell him I'm not in the mood (plus Lex is the other side of me!) he sulks!
I got pretty pissed off and gave him a lecture on just what my day involves and why I didn't want to, growling at him that I 'Feed on demand not F* on demand'

Anyway, he apologised, but it meant we'd been in bed for two hours before I got a chance to sleep, and Lex woke up an hour later
Thankfully he went back to sleep pretty quickly (good thing about the growth spurts, they increase the amount of milk you produce and how quickly they can get it out) and slept til about half four in bed with me, so I latched him on and went back to sleep.

ALSO. XMiL had called me the other day, asked if she could see the children this week, considering what a prick her son is and the fact that he doesn't bother with the DC's at all, I think it's nice of me to allow her to come to my house and spend time with them, I think she sees it as her right rather than me doing her a favour, which pisses me off. She had told me last week she'd call by last night to say when she was coming, but it would prob be thursday. Go to bed, no call, so I text her asking what's going on, and that annoyed me too, cos it meant I had to get up at 8am, so I could have a bath and stuff incase she decides she is coming. Then this morning she texts me, can she come tomorrow morning Why not ask me before now??? Tomorrow I am meant to be meeting a friend, who I can't get hold of, so don't know what my plans are but I've got her bugging me wanting an answer. Well, tough, she can wait.

Sorry.

Scamp - it sounds as if you are having an awful time. I don't know what PND feels like, although I got fucking miserable between 4 and 6 weeks with dd1 - couldn't stop crying and threatening to move out. But it did go away as I got more sleep (so probably not PND) Its a good thing your bil etc moved out - that was the last thing you needed, so I wouldn't worry about what they think about you - its not important right now. Survival is. Can you try talking to DH about how you feel, and that you think you aren't coping as well as you might? Maybe he just hasn't thought it through, and assumes that becuase you were OK last time, you will be this time? Are there any baby groups you can go to? can you put DD1 in nursery or longer?

Sorry not to be able to help... but I'm thinking of you...

Thank you! Xx

(((scampmump))) I don't know anything about pnd either, sorry. but I'm thinking of you too. what a stupid time to 'just' stay over for holidays. don't think about them, I second sagitta, survival is what counts at the moment. hope you can sort it out with your DH!

vs, the only thing that comes to my mind is MEN!!!!

Blimey its rant central on here today, scamp I think having BIL/SIL to stay for that long when you have LO in the house would drive most people to distraction (BTW most consultants have god syndrome - v annoying even in short spells) While it is possible youve got PND (def mention to the dr what youve been feeling) Im sure you will feel better now they have gone and as you start to get more sleep. Think you def need to speak to DH it may be that if he just does one night for you it will boost your energy levels. Feeding in the am, i tend to offer feed at 7am regardless of what time the last night feed was a) because Im mad b) because i need to know what time the rest of the feeds will fall roughly for school runs/dinner/bath/bed time etc. She pretty much has to wait for subsequent feeds.

Scorpio and VS the joys of school holidays eh, dreading the summer ones.

pmsl VS i call it WHT - Wandering Hand Trouble. dh tried it too - i just said oh yes the very next thing i want is someone else needing me and poking me . and i keep trying to get him to wear a condom... anyway another story.

Men. arent they wonderful!!!

Scamp PND feels like a dark cloud, i call mine that. it takes the enjoyment from things. i used to think terrible strange things - about killing myself, could i walk away; did i have enough money to get the train to scotland alone, etc etc. once i counted if i had enough pills i did have it very badly though i think. looking back on it i cannot believe it was me. Me and dh went through a very bad time after the last baby. He went to a domestic violence perpatrators course it was that bad. We fixed it though, the last 3 years have been wonderful. Anyway it is deffo worth mentioning because it wil lcreep up so fast its scary. You need to tell dh too, tell him he is not helping you. Ask me anything you like about pnd, i have had it twice so feel like i know alot about it.

Scampmum My PND was similar to how Scorpio describes it.
I drank an awful lot, took drugs, got anyone to look after DD so I could just go out and forget about reality.
I used to think, really calmly, not hysterically, but at total ease, about dying, about how the best way to kill myself would be, how I should do it now, then it wouldn't really affect DD because she wouldn't remember me, and how anyone was better for her than me. I knew I loved her, but found if hard to touch her, because I felt I was so wrong for her.
There was no joy in anything, I don't know if you read Harry Potter but to me the dementors are depression.
The day I took the most serious overdose I waited until DD&XDP were both asleep and took all my pain killers from the CS, plus some other tablets we had in the house, I made some kind of noise (can't remember what now, think I was putting their washing away ready for them) anyway, XDP didn't wake up with the noise, which worried me, I tried to wake him and he wouldn't arouse (he'd had a few drinks) so I panicked and called my XMiL, I was quite happy to die, but not happy to leave DD to cry, which is what I suspected would happen if she awoke, and he didn't.
Even at the hospital I wasn't thinking straight, still convinced she would be better off without me, and a few days later when I went to the GP about my kidneys (I was in pain, they later failed because of it) I broke down.

IME, depression isn't huge emotion, more like having had enough, emotion is too draining when you feel that shit and you don't know you've got it, you just feel so low, like nothing will ever change, and you may as well give up now.

With both DS's I have had times where I've wanted o scream/cry and even walk away, but I know when I walk away (I have done it both times, did it two weeks ago, just shouted at them all how I'd had enough of being taken for granted and walked out, came back about ten minutes later and cried to DP about how tired I was) it's only for long enough to get myself some breathing space and just pull myself together, then I'm fine, that IMO, is normal, hormonal, tired mum syndrome, not PND, only hope it's the same for you.

Thank you so much, girls, it means so much to me that you will share your experiences so openly. for both of you but you're through it. Am sobbing reading both your posts so I'm clearly not out of emotion just yet. From what you say it looks like just tired mum syndrome but I am talking to DH about it and he understands. My concern was that if I started talking about PND he'd think 'oh, OK, she's reacting like that because she's got PND, not because I'm being a twat', but I think that's being unfair to him. Definitely going to schedule a night for him to do all the feeds, though, and probably on a day I can get reinforcements in so the poor lamb can recover /. From your descriptions it doesn't sound like PND - I'm much more erratic/manic/unpredictable/irritable than flat and low. I will still talk to the doc, though, and keep an eye out.

VS - love your 'feed on demand...' quote - think that will be coming out sooner or later! Although our relationship has definitely improved since we started having sex again (Monday). We're all animals at the end of the day, especially men.

just keep an eye on yourself. and tell us if you think you may have it, we can help you again. Please tell doc though, they know better than we do.

Do talk to your dh too, point out you are desperately tired and need the help. no wonder they use sleep deprivation as torture!

Deffo talk about it, the best way to combat PND is to not let it get that far.

Now, go coo at DS's smile, inspired by Scorpios recent pics I spent half an hour making a prat out of myself trying to get him to laugh whilst he stared balnkly at the camera
Pics on profile.

Also , poor XMiL
The friend I'm meeting tomorrow has got back to me we're hoping for nice weather so we can have a picnic at the river/park so XMiL will have to wait.

DP gets his uniform monday

i blardy hate MIL. dh rang mine yesterday but only for a min.

@ uniform. dh has to wait for interview now for retained firefighter

Millie looked cross in my pics.

omg his cheeks are the best. he just made me broody

Hello all, have been very remiss on this thread

Scampmum, sorry you have had such a tough time.

Moomins, DD had baby acne from about two weeks. Checking up on it, found that it should disappear somewhere between 6 weeks and 6 months (hmm, so nice and specific then). Fortunately hers went at around 6 weeks and she has beautiful clear baby cheeks again.

Will try to work back through earlier posts now...

VS and Scorpio that your PND spiralled so far before you got help, hope you are both ok this time.

Fab pictures of Alex, love the chubby cheeks

oh im fine this time

i have a really sore armpit, hope its not bf related?

Scorpio -- it could be a blocked duct (you can get some milk ducts out that far) but is more likely to just be a cyst in there that will resolve itself. I've had that both times (at about the same point you are now, oddly enough) and it fixed itself within a few days (first time round I went to the doctor who gave it a bit of a prod). Could be worth doing hot shower and massage just in case it's a blocked duct, but most likely not.

thanks, will do. its right at the top of my armpit when i lift my arm up iyswim.

Glad to see u back PAL, the good thing is babies seem to be keeping everyone quiet so not so much to catch up on.

Glad your ok this time scorpio, question re PND, whats the probability of it returning, friend i saw at weekend had quite severe first time, wouldnt be in same room as baby lots of bad thoughts etc, shes now 32/40 and terrified it will happen again. Obviously she and family wil be looking out for it but just wondered if higher risk or just the same as someone who hadnt had b4, soz 1 hand type.

its higher risk, its seen as a predisposistion iyswim. though get her to think - are her circumstances different (better) this time? was it left for a long time last time?

she will notice it faster this time and it wont be as bad. i left mine for 4 months last time. very stupid.