March 2013: Smiles, sleep & excellent feeding.....the thread of wishful thinking!

[SoYo]

Well we may as well start the thread on a positive note before the grumbling about the little darlings begins!!!

I found the other thread! I am going Dd fed twice tonight at 2am and 4.45am and not been sick and no breathing trouble, thank you god.

When i read all your funny typos at this time in the morning it just makes me think I'm having a moment...!

So unless this post goes missing, hopefully I'm expressing relief to wing that you were annoyed at my OH rather than me (that's if I picked that up right?!) and kudos for all the brilliant public BFing, pissing off old ladies!

I'm hoping today is the day for me. Only going into town with OH to buy yet more vests for DS who has weed or pooed over every single new thing I've bought lately. We're doing reusables so flying without being able to tell if he's wet or not... Dangerous at best! Have now moved to actual newborn - 3 month size now, struggling to get rid of the tiny things though, bit sentimental.

I've bought so many different nappy inserts I've probably negated the money saving part of reusables altogether.

DS was grumpy as hell all day yesterday after being good as gold the previous day whilst we looked at a flat and drove to see friends. He now sleeps from 9 until 4 most nights (I'm sure that'll change) but seems to be doing all the teething signs you've been talking about at 8 weeks! I'm not ready to lose a nipple...

Pud I'm with you; Still no idea how to pump enough for a feed - unless he only has one side in the morning it would take me several times to get a bottle full, and even then somehow he still needs topping up if it doesn't come from a boob. Plus I think my nipples have died - they're all white on the ends??

On the plus side fybogel and lactulose finally worked after 3 days of just awful wind. And I mean AWFUL. I have not been attractive.

Been slacking off on the boobs lately and pumping instead because when OH is off work I just need the rest. DS is fine for the first 20 mins then starts with the screaming stuff again. He's currently asleep, but thrashing around like a fish out of water and smacking his arms down on the mattress. He's nuts, god knows what he dreams about. At least now we can have a sort of chat, he responds by saying 'oh' a lot, but I wasn't expecting deliberate sounds so early it's very endearing.

Oh and Emerald - after 8 weeks struggling to BF I still feel it's a bit of a chore, and I don't feel it to be very bonding either, DS looks in my eyes more when having a bottle frankly and cries less too! I'm forcing myself to carry on purely because now it doesn't actually hurt so much it makes me cry, but I find it uncomfortable to hold him in a good position, it only really works lying back which only works at home, and he always wants topping up anyway because he falls asleep or gets bored. So YANBU at all

Emerald - I've just had a wee dander over into AIBU too (scary place, I don't go there often...), and I can just say YWNBU to smack her one. What a prize tit, in more ways than one. Honestly, whatever happened to the sisterhood ? I ebf for the first 10 weeks, but not out of some great stance of superior perfect parent-ness. No, I did it because I have a baby that came out of the womb with a fierce determination to latch on and down as much milk as possible within the shortest possible time, and I am a lazy cah. In the words of the lactation consultant on the maternity ward 'oh, you'll not have any problems with this one'.

For me it was the easy option, a case of just bung her on and leave her to it. In comparison sterilising bottles seemed like a massive pita. So, there you have it, breast was best, but if it hadn't worked out for whatever reason I'd have switched and that would have been just fine too. In fact for the last week or so I have been slowly transitioning with a view to cutting out the bf before she gets teeth, and that is largely a lifestyle choice. 1. I wish retain my nipples, unshredded, 2. 8 hours a day pinned to the sofa is beginning to be less cuddly bonding, and more tedious, and 3. I'm losing to much weight and want to hang on to my calories. So shoot me. I also speak as the child of a 1970s academic who considered bf-ing to be a boring hippy activity and bunged me on the bottle from day one, and guess what.... I turned out fine. Perfectly robust, and with more academic qualifications than is entirely healthy. Nowt wrong with powder in my book.

So, ditch the guilt, and join the rest of us on the 'bad' mummy bench. I mean that in an ironic comedy way... there is not one bad mum on here, but we suffer from The Guilt

Eig - that hotel sounds lovely, I may have a google as a baby friendly trip away sounds almost too good to be true. Our travel cot search is for nothing more exciting than a few days in Devon. That said it is to introduce her littlest-ship to her 98 year old great granddad, which is I guess quite exciting after all.

Ah, the tiddler awakes, and the DH would appear to have gone for a drive in his 'stupid' car, so that makes it my job to enquire as to her nappy and or breakfast requirements.

Really pleased the Eig family trip seems to be working out. Enjoy it and fx minieig recovers fully pdq.

Leni, there are various possible causes of nipple blanching, might be worth checking out the articles on kellymom just to check it doesn't sound like infection. Have it to a degree here, but sure it's linked to me struggling with his newly bad latch.

Tried expressing a bit by hand before the night feeds and its resulted in a little less chomping and therefore slightly less bruised nips. Hope they may get comfier over next few days if I keep it up.

And Leni, I am currently trying to build a supply of EBM to largely get DS through my kit day on 5 th June. Since I only seem able to express about 10 ml from the left (more like 50 from the right, lopsided anyone?) it's going to take a long time to get a days worth together... I think I need about 300-350ml and that will take me a week to get! He will no doubt also have some formula top up on the day. Now just need DH to take seriously his need to get him taking the bottle again. He can't seem to get too worried about it at the moment, but he sure as hell will if he has him 8-6 and can't get him to feed properly!

Hmmm, losing too much weight... Not such a problem here. While I truly didn't gain excessively during pg, I think my new found cake/ biscuit/buttermilk pancake addiction may have undone any good work despite the bfing 500 calories a day. (The sitting on my arse on the sofa to do it prob doesn't help either, but so not got sling feeding weighed off!)

Emerald what a cow, even if she didn't consider the implications of her statement. I was only breastfed for two weeks, and likewise my son has been on the bottle since two weeks old. The reason? A bad latch that no one in hospital would actually take the time to help us sort (I suspect they were way too busy with more important matters), which caused bleeding nipples. I then got a 'rash' from pumping - broken blood vessels caused by too much pressure. We start mixed feeding which, at such a young age, was the beginning of the end. I cried so much but once I had made the decision to stop I found it easy to defend - it was the best thing for both of us, so how could it be 'bad'? Admittedly the one time anyone made me feel like shit about it my mum leapt to my defence. So yanbu to bottle feed your wee one.

If the vipers over at AIBU will defend you you can guarantee you've done the right thing!

Nice weekend here after all. Braved nandos as a family, hung out together a lot and relaxed together. Dp suggested I may be a bit depressed, he's potentially right but we'll see. The cats going back to the vets again today to get her booster jabs but she's been a bit under the weather after trying to eat the fat off a piece of rump steak. Yesterday I had the pleasure of a poonami to clean immediately followed by cat vom.

Pud your indulgences sound so tempting! I've recently (since last night) gone wheat and sugar free in an attempt to help my mood/speed up weight loss and I keep trying not to think of the two remaining custard creams, doomed to a fate of increasing sogginess in the cupboard...

Hello everyone and welcome emerald. Been awol again. This time because we had visitors with a toddler staying with us and we're now visiting relatives with toddler. I'm hoping you'll all say 'gosh eco that sounds stressful' because I'm finding it so! I bit off more than I can chew I think. Overly optimistic about what I can achieve and deal with. Cooking meals for others on top of a small baby and accepting toddler and all that entails has been a challenge that's made me want to search for dark quiet room. But instead we're down with dh's family after four hour journey. Today there's a party to meet dd but no dh. So there'll be I don't know how many people fussing over dd whilst we're in a strange house and dh is off at play off final at Wembley. Why of why do I think these things are a good idea when they're abstract ideas and two weeks away?!
Breast pads I change mine morning and night and use washable bamboo ones. Never occurred I should be doing it more often. Scummy mummy! And yes, I'm def more juicy on one side. Lots of leaks this end. Especially when I go to the big scream cinema screenings where there's fifty crying babies.
My white tip nipple has gone since I started rugby ball feeding on right side and pain on feeding gone. Hurrah. Might it be worth a change in feed position to help sore nips?
Poor eig baby. I was an asthma baby myself and have an insight into how hard that must have been on my own mum. Breathing/coughing with little ones must be hard. Hope the sea air helped. The hotel set up sounds bliss!
Your teething talk has got me thinking. When I get five mins I'm going to read ahead with the book wonder weeks and see if there's a developmental leap around the ten/twelve week mark that might explain some of the changes you guys are seeing in your babies. Just need ten mins to myself to open the book! I can't bf and read yet.
Sunny day here in Kent. Hope same with you all.
Ok. Back to the lonely chaos of a family gathering without dh....

Losing too much weight sounds lovely. I did alright when pregnant until the third trimester cake fest kicked in, and since giving birth my diet has involved a bit too much of the man's five food groups: cake; crisps; chocolate; biscuits; and sweeties. So! Today we are getting the exercise bike set up and I am going to do some sort of healthy sweaty motion thing. And tea tonight is going to be minimal on the mash and heavy on the vegetables. Managed to shift four stone in five months last year, so theoretically this cake baby weight should be shiftable easily enough.

Eig glad you've gone and had fun! Also, I was expecting Gina to be a bit more overtly evil (babies on spikes and so on), but that daily routine sounds pretty sensible. In fact it sounds amazing, if only I could persuade DD that daytime does not mean she has to wake up after forty five minutes. Which has a knock-on effect of meaning she's knackered after an hour. Which throws the three hour routine we're supposedly on into disarray. But she'll learn to sleep eventually, right?

Right, I'm off to AIBU to see what I've missed.

One for Stormy, a friend and I were talking about bottle feeding issues and I mentioned your problems. She is quite knowledgable about this sort of thing and suggested hydrolysed formula, and revisiting dairy free too (in her view your symptoms could still be dairy intolerance and might be worth a try?)

Hope all enjoying lovely bank holiday.

pud we've tried comfort milk, which is partially hydrolysed, and we've tried colief, which reduces lactose. Neither made any difference to the quantity DD drinks, although she did seem a bit more comfortable generally. Doesn't dairy intolerance generally involve scary foamy green diarrhoea though?

emerald just checked AIBU. That woman sounds like a prize pillock who didn't put any thought whatsoever into what she was saying. And if it makes you feel better, I gave up after five days because DD wasn't latching on and I was producing bugger all milk and she'd dropped eleven per cent of her body weight in five days. The fact that I can now go out and get pissed is just a bonus (and the woman who was so rude to you is probably jealous you can drink and she can't!).

This website linked to by a responder to Emerald's AIBU is actually very interesting, for ff mummies, combination feeding mummies a d those EBF but with a time limit in mind...

www.fearlessformulafeeder.com/

Often, but not necessarily. Do any of these ring bells? terrible sleep, eczema, mucousy nose, colic?

Pudtat that's a reay interesting website. A new bookmark! Right, really must stop mnetting and get ready to get this cat poked.

Oh and Stormy 5 stone in 4 months? very good! What was your method? I have two and a bit to go and I hate being bigger. Really gets me down. I was a chubby kid and I have such a complex about it.

pud no eczema, not particularly mucousy, not prone to screaming fits, sleeps fine at night, just is arse at it during the day.

plonko it was a four-pronged attack on my mountains of blubber.

1. do at least ten kilometres on the exercise bike every day (requires adjustment of mindset so you actually prioritise this, rather than putting it off).
2. replace mash, pasta and rice with great big mountains of vegetables (I favour broccoli and green beans) and serve on a smaller plate.
3. severely reduce alcohol intake (it's got calories in it, plus my hangovers tend to involve eating my body weight in crisps).
4. stop succumbing to the munchies (hunger is not actually a bad thing). I was eighteen stone three at the start of February last year, and figured if we were going to have a kid at some point I could do to be in better shape so I could run around after it. Got down to fourteen stone exactly before I realised the one thing that stopped the nausea was carbs! And I rather suspect part of the reason I conceived five weeks after coming off the pill was those few months of exercising and eating well.

Well DS is royally messing with me now. Nothing satisfies him apart from formula on the boob he screams and seems to hate every second, and it makes me wonder if I'm doing it for him, or just to assuage The Guilt...

Still pumping everytime he has a bottle to try and keep supply up but starting to wonder if all tgis should've got easier now we're 8 weeks in. People said 6 weeks but it still feels just as difficult now! Even when he has 5oz of EBM he needs a top up, and that's the max I can get, after a night with only one feed. No hope of him being ok with just EBM during the day.

How can I either get it to feel more manageable or just deal with The Guilt and completely switch to ff?

Sit and have a cuppa and a think about it, leni. If he hates the boob and only wants formula, have a good think about why you're persisting with boob. Is it just to avoid The Guilt, or are there any more solid reasons? If it's just The Guilt, then think about how much happier you'll be if you're not constantly pumping and wearing yourself out, and how much happier he'll be if he's not having regular boob-induced screaming fits. Basically you just have to think your way around it until you can see why you're making the best decision in the circumstances. And then put it out of your mind! There will be plenty of other things along soon enough for you to feel needlessly guilty about.

Leni, stormy once again speaks sense. A midwife told me that formula satisfies babies more because its not so easily digested. There's also been studies that show bf babies cry more and don't settle as easily (don't have citation but I read it on the guardian website a few months ago). This is obviously an inbuilt survival technique, but bloody hard to live with on a daily basis!
Any chance you could leave DS with dj for 30 mins, go for a brisk, baby free walk and have a good think? Whatever decision you make will ultimately be the tight one, and I think you've gone to such extreme efforts to bf already that if you call it a day you'd be pretty much exempt from The Guilt.

Stormy that's v similar to the diet/exercise regime I've adopted. I'm considering dropping beans and cheese too, am clearly nuts! How's your dd getting on btw? Still on a maximum of four oz?

leni sounds like you are having a tough time with the breatfeeding. I love it now because it's so easy and convenient with no sterlising or washing or all the stuff that comes with bottles but it sounds like you have that anyway. I had an agonising start with breastfeeding - terrible pain from tight teethered nipples, then cracks and bleeding, then oversupply and various other issues. But I was absolutely determined to perserve because DD clearly loved it and was thriving on it and ultimately my breast milk is specially adapted to her needs. To me the pain and inconvenice were totally irrelevant considerations and now it is wonderful. I generally feel pretty strongly about the benefits of breastfeeding when it is working for both mum and baby BUT not sure I would feel this way and perserve if DD behaved like your little one with the breast at 8 weeks. You should go with your instinct about what is best for you both and forget The Guilt!

Don't drop cheese, plonko! Life needs to still have some pleasures, after all. Just maybe resist the urge to grate half a block onto every meal. We've just been discussing shifting the timing of the evening meal - it's been when DD is in bed, so 7.30 or 8pm, and then I go to bed about an hour later. 5pm would be better because she tends to be napping then anyway, and it means I'm not going twelve or thirteen hours between getting up and having a big meal. I am probably going to be naughty and have a small bowl of mint ice cream when she's gone to bed though. Because it's there, and if I don't eat it it will taunt me from the freezer. Safest all round to get it eaten and out of the way.

As for DD, she is still not eating much, although better than this time last week. Still sometimes only having one or two ounces, but three and a half and four ouncers have made a comeback. She's not fussing and screaming like she was a few weeks back either, thankfully. Today we've been trying a couple of cheap bottles from the pound shop, instead of the posh boob-shaped ones. They seem to fit her mouth much better. Perhaps she's just not got the right shape mouth for boobs?

I have considered the pain and inconvenience so far irrelevant Rainbow as you say, maybe that's why it's getting me down that he now seems to hate it just as I'm hardened to all the soreness after weeks of it being utterly soul destroying, painful etc. The only feeds where he's settled afterwards are the middle of the night and first of the morning, but all day for the last few days he's been literally sobbing unless he has a top up. OH opts for formula so easily it makes me feel I'm being meaner persevering!

Maybe it's another phase, or reflux, maybe I'll give it a few days more to decide. Just started to worry that he's so hungry now that I can't keep up.

Maybe we just carry on with combined feeding and I'll have to accept that EBF just wasn't enough.

I'm so exhausted I can't think straight and he's not keeping me awake at night, I just feel wiped out the last few days - probably very much contributing to my upset at seeing him look like he's in terrible pain on the boob

Oh Leni. There are no right or wrong answers, just the one that's right for you and your family. I have massive sympathy for where you are right now as we went through very similar issues, but the difference seems to be that DS loves the boobs now, and slowly stopped wanting top ups afterwards to the extent where we have been EBF for a few weeks. I have had to start introducing a bottle again more regularly (aiming for once a day) simply to stop him refusing it totally when I am out (and I have keep in touch days booked). If we were still struggling like you, and I had to pump more than once a day (and that's for the freezer not for topping up) I would probably be stopping. And it does allow DH to get in on the act.

You have done brilliantly, and tried really hard. Whatever you decide you don't have to feel that you failed at something you wanted to do. But especially as you have been rather trapped by not wanting to bf in public, there would be advantages to moving over to formula. You could always try to keep a feed, perhaps at night to save making up bottles then, if you wanted. It may not work forever, it might do, everyone is different, but if getting your life back and enjoying your baby are the side effects of switching, it doesn't sound too awful. Tell The Guilt to get knotted .

Thanks Pud and everyone

We've managed a total of 48 hours of EBF in 8 wks! Oh dear. It took me 6 weeks to get there and now back to one full bottle of formula plus a few doses here and there to avoid fullscale meltdown. Have never managed to pump a feed that made it to the freezer, they've just been replacing a FF every time to try and minimise them whenever possible.

DS has been poking his tongue out all day - does that mean anything significant?

It means he's figured out how to stick his tongue out at you, leni!

Leni- you should absolutely not allow The Guilt to affect your decision. I will say though that I was miserable about bf when it didn't get easier at 6 weeks, then at 9 weeks it did suddenly click and got so much easier. I don't think I ever had it as tough as you though, if I had I'm sure I would have switched far earlier. At nearly 12 weeks I'm still waiting to love it- it's fine now, easy, quick and convenient, but most of the time I do still think "oh god here we go" every time she's hungry.

We've had a lovely sunny weekend down here in the SE, PILs visited for a couple of days, always a bit stressful as they're fairly stuffy (along with pretty bigoted...holding my tongue takes a lot of effort) but still nice-ish to see them. Dd had her longest sleep last night, from 10pm dream feed to 4.50. It's been getting later and later every day, I feel like sleeping through might be within reach! Then today we had a lovely BBQ with my parents and some close friends. Dd behaved herself beautifully, very few tears, plenty of gummy grins for all and sundry, entertained herself while we ate. Felt very proud!

A question for those of you who have either stopped breastfeeding, have moved to mixed feeding, or have babies that sleep through- how long did it take your boobs to get used to fewer feeds? I bf at 7pm, formula dream feed, and then bf when she wakes up (between 3.30 & 4.30 usually) and I'm solid as a rock and in agony for that night feed! In fact a couple of nights I've felt that she may have just gone back to sleep without a feed but I've ended up getting her up to relieve the engorgement. We've been doing this for about 2 weeks now and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. Any ideas?