March 2013: Smiles, sleep & excellent feeding.....the thread of wishful thinking!

[SoYo]

Well we may as well start the thread on a positive note before the grumbling about the little darlings begins!!!

Vj I really struggle with this, and in fact think its partly responsible for recent pain in feeding - he has to clamp down so hard on the nipple to get going in the night I think he bruised me - but for the last couple of days I have expressed a little by hand before latching him on and it has been enough to make things much more comfortable. (Still guilty of changing him onto other side when he first comes off though to help me sleep after feeding!)

Leni - you've been a mum in a million to your ds, you really have, and he's had 6 weeks of your bm which will have already provided him with all your antibodies and other good things. You really do need to start thinking of yourself too now, as he needs you rested and full of energy more than he needs to be ebf.

Bf-ing is one of those strange things that we all take to our hearts, and feel terrible about if we stop. I started out completely ambivalent either way, then settled into bf-ing, and was hit by a huge wave of guilt after dd had her first bottle. The thing is I can see that dd sleeps better after a formula meal, and has really bonded with DH since he started feeding her, so now I'm completely ok with it.

Think about yourself sometimes as well as everyone else. Being a mum is hard, very hard. We all start out battered, bruised and exhausted, graduate onto sleep deprived, chewed and spewed upon, and somewhere along the line succumb to endless levels of guilt. The thing we should remember is we are all stars, all doing an amazing job, and all need to make choices to make sure we do what is best for not just everyone else, but ourselves included.

Give yourself a break, a pat on the back, a big hug, and decide what works.

Vj - I've moved to mixed, and have done so gradually by cutting out first one feed, then two (but never two back to back). It does get a bit sore sometimes, in which case I express off just enough to be comfortable, but not enough for the milk bar to go into production over drive.

The thing to watch is the balance of fore and hind milk, as once you are on mixed, your boobs will not be fully drained down. DD had a few green nappies due to excess fore milk, so I've started expressing off the really watery stuff first thing and binning it. It makes me think I should fully transition asap as the one thing I don't want to do is mess up dd's nutrition.

Oh Worse I loved that post. I've never before started a job feeling quite like I did when I became a mum.

Leni here are a few things to consider:

1. There's very little evidence for the benefits of BFing past around 3 weeks as far as I remember
2. The act you have The Guilt at all means you are a good Mum
3. We all want what we can't have. If my Bubs had settled well after formula I'd have given up after the dreaded week 3 because I despised BFing. She's now 12 weeks & it's much easier but I know in my heart f hearts that I'm doing it because I have to (complete bottle refuser & screams with that in her mouth like your LO does with a nipple) rather than out of any marvellous mothering or love of it. If I was in your shoes I'd have stopped weeks ago & I know that that wouldn't have made me a bad mum, just one that was trying to keep her health & sanity for the good of everyone.

Just look inside you & make your own decision because at the end of the day it doesn't matter about anyone but your family and our group of crazies will be here to hold your hand either way

Vj - that gives me hope for maybe holding on another week... Week by week things change so much, you think you have it sussed and then it all goes crazy again.

I'm sure those studies that show BF babies to sleep just as well as FF ones can't be accurate - heavier digestion makes everyone sleepier surely.

Nobody tells us how to stop do they? I've read stories of blocked ducts and awful infections

I'm now struggling to fit into my 34GG bras and judging which boob to feed DS with purely on which one is bulging out of my bra the most. I caught sight of my reflection in a shop window today and I looked like I could topple over at any moment. Comedy boobs.

X posted there - soyo glad it's not just me who felt that way.

I just can't believe this whole BF thing is basically on the hush hush until you have to do it, and then it's suddenly your whole life. How the eff did women get through all of it before they could FF? I feel very lucky that I even have that choice I guess. Yet another thing women go through with so much strength that men just see from the outside and probably have no idea of the ramifications of.

One of the blog posts on the FFF site I linked to earlier was about the history of supplementation, from wet nurses to 'formula'. They've found 4000 year old baby bottles you know...

I need to have a proper look at that site!

Yep, wet nurses and people living in huge families/communities so babies would get passed around when mum couldn't hack it. Humans really haven't changed much for a good long time!

I can't really imagine that the likes of cleopatra fed their babies on their own boob, and yet all her children survived infancy lucky cow

SoYo what studies show that breatfeeding benefit is only in first three weeks? From all the research I did when making my decision (all from primary sources where possible) the benefits of breastfeeding extended far beyond that including the benefits of extended breastfeeding. I am not saying this to upset anyone but I don't believe anyone should make a decision as important as how to feed your child without reviewing all of the information available and then deciding what is right to you. Ultimately I personally don't believe that if your little one actually thrives on breastfeeding that the fact that it becomes your whole life or is inconvenient or means you get less sleep for a while to you should matter. Most of us are on maternity leave which is not supposed to be a holiday. Having said that every single baby is different and sometimes using breastmilk substitutes is absolutely the right thing to do for you little one. In the end no mattet what my personal view are I absolutely hate any debate in real life about bf or ff though because I don't believe many mums would make a choice based on anything but what is best for their babies! leni your breastfeeding story has been an insiration in perserverance!

I was thinking the same thing - if all the benefits come in the first 3 weeks why am I still bothering at nearly 9!

Crap night last night. Am feeling stabby towards the word, quite frankly. Meant to be driving 2 hours to York to see the friends we didn't last week when we were ill but I'm in a v bad mood and have told DH to cancel. He's now pissed off with me and DS is sad but I really so not want to go, not least because the other mum I suspect is having a breeze at 3-4 weeks and I feel like we've got no further forward in routine or anything and they want us to stay for tea how dare they be so kind which means we'd be driving back in DD's witching hours and she'll probably cry the whole way back which I cannot deal with.

So yes IABU possibly but I don't care.

Sorry I've not contributed to your debate leni. I'm just in a foul mood.

Vent away, Wing, it's what we're here for. Any chance you could send dp out with the kids so you can have a long bath in peace, or stick a silly film on? Or get out for a walk in the fresh drizzle?

I've found marathonning episodes of friends or doctor who to be particularly effective.

Rainbow saying someone's struggle is fine because may leave is not a holiday is dismissive and unfair. I'd be very upset if someone had said that to me when I was struggling with bfing.

I don't know plonko. I feel v guilty about cancelling but I really just don't want to go.

Ultimately I personally don't believe that if your little one actually thrives on breastfeeding that the fact that it becomes your whole life or is inconvenient or means you get less sleep for a while to you should matter. Most of us are on maternity leave which is not supposed to be a holiday.

I think what rainbow's saying is a fair point - she's not necessarily talking about mums like leni who is struggling but those - like me actually! - who are just getting fed up of the lack of sleep/routine and general inconvenience and who are thinking of quitting. It's actually made me think again about whether my reasons for stopping in the next month or so are purely selfish, which I guess they are.

Had an okish night last night. Still wishing for the night when ds sleeps through. Had a shitty weekend. We did nothing! I was sooo exhausted i was just glad dh was home to look after ds but now hes gone back to work. Boo hoo!

I feel like a fraud only popping into say hi every so often but its so hard to keep up with the conversations going on.

rainbow im very happy that you have had a good experience bf but its not the same for everyone. I ff. I still feel horribly guilty but i was starving my ds with ebf. Even if i topped up with ff he would be sick and bring it all up. Now i only ff and he is hardly sick. (apart from this morning when he decides to stick his fingers in his mouth and make himself puke). I think we all know that mat leave is not a holiday and bf is one of the many challenges we face as a new parent.

Have a good day everyone. Its raining here so its a day at home with the baby in one arm and a feather duster in the other.

Absolutely, we can all take each others opinions on board but I think a little tact goes a long way when people are upset and knackered.

Aside from the agony every time I pumped or he latched on, I felt too exhausted and emotional to be of any use to my DS. I think I was definitely selfish for not struggling on (hello The Guilt, old friend) but now my DS has a mum who is rested, mostly happy and confident. I can play with him, I don't wince every time his flailing arms bash my chest and I can lift him without pain. He's as healthy as the day is long. And yet I still feel guilty because of that bloody breast is best campaign and some thoughtlessly chosen words.

Rant over, I promise

If you guys read my post again you will see I was saying that I think the sacrifice of our comfort is worth it IF little one is thriving on breastmilk. I love breastfeeding but it is by no means easy for me. In fact there are days now when it is uncomfortable and inconvenient and painful. All I was saying is that for me those things are irrelevant becuase from my research there are prolongrd benefit AND DD loves it and is growing beautifully on it. If we had any problems with her growth, discomfort etc we would also be considering ff as we in fact did in the early days and we probably would be if DD has not rejected it point blank! So I feed through the bleeding and pain and now coming out the other end. I was purely expressing an opinion to give support for those of still thinking about and struggling with breastfeeding. My comment is not relevant for anyone who has already made the decision either way!

I guess the key to Rainbows point though is 'thrives'. If like Leni, every feed is a battle, that is questionable, and if like Plonko they are losing out on other quality mummy time (cuddles etc) then are they really thriving? Surely to 'thrive' in such a dependent state they need mum coping if nothing else. And for some bfing uses up all the cope, leaving nothing for all the other parts of being a parent.

Talking of Dr Who, am I the only one to occasionally refer to DS as Mr Sweet now?

Today I shall start writing my new book - The Tale of Mr Fartypants and the Night of Incredibly Disrupted Sleep. Honestly it's been awful. He woke up several times going to bed which took well over an hour (v unusual) and then had a three feed night. Just got up again now and thrown up the 10mins boob time he's just had . We are a couple of days overdue a poo and I think we need to get it out of his system!

X post with Rainbow there.

I doubt this is going to be a popular opinion, but I think pretty much the opposite to Rainbow. Even if your baby's thriving on breastmilk, that does not mean you're obliged to continue with it, or that you should feel bad for wanting to stop. It's your body, they're your boobs, and we're fortunate to have a perfectly acceptable alternative to breastmilk available. Make the choice that suits you best without making a martyr of yourself.

I don't want to sound like I'm pushing one method of feeding over another, but Wing, you are allowed to prioritise your need for sleep, you know. Even if that means switching to formula. Not just because it's better for your baby if you're well-rested, but also because it's your body, your boobs, and you can make whatever decision you want about what to do with them without feeling like you're being selfish. You've a duty to feed your baby. You don't have a duty to feed your baby breastmilk.

Right, I need a cuppa now. Can we have a slightly more chilled out day?

And KF, I'm so with you. My own personal guilt revolves totally around DS weight gain which has been very slow. I await this weeks weigh in with baited breath really as it will be 2 weeks since he was last weighed, we have been EBF and I'm just not 100% sure whether he'll have gained enough. I worry my determination to stick with bfing has done and is doing harm. This is kind of silly as he won't take his top ups any more and I feed on demand and until his hungry cues finish, but.... There is always something!

And Wing, sorry you had a bad night - mercury must have been retrograde or something as there was certainly a lot of it about here. If you don't want to go out, don't go. Sometimes I find a change of scene helpful, but if you think throwing what routine you have out even more will be even harder then don't bother. You may find being in the car at least defers the witching hour, DS finds it like a drug and just can't stay awake. But if you're feeling fragile and don't want to do anything to make you feel worse the stay at home and try to relax by venting on here and being as stabby as you like. Why not start by joining Stormy in a cuppa, I will be just as soon as LO finishes his breakfast. and there are still pancakes from the weekend and strawberries, blueberries and banana to be drizzled in maple syrup... I'll never lose the weight!

Nap time here so rather than catch up with your posts I've read ahead in the wonder weeks book for those of you with slightly older babies than me. So for babies who are twelve ish weeks on from their estimated due date they undergo their third developmental leap since birth. You may notice he likes to be with you more, needs more of your attention (even if he's had an independent phase beforehand), is less tolerant of strangers, more clingy, wants to drag out feeding sessions, bf babies chew nipples for ages, bottle fed babies drag out feeds and may not finish bottles, sleep both day and or night night alter with more night demands on food, he could suck hands more or for first time, he might spend blocks of time just staring at things. This more fussy phase they reckon won't last for long and is a way of the baby coping with his developmental changes. To help them through they suggest helping babies play at sliding down your legs, swaying them from side to side whilst saying tick tock (really), play horsey clip clop games, jumping, bouncing and feeling different fabrics! So there you go. Interesting to read the theory and see if it applies to your baby. Thought this might be of interest to those of you with babies exhibiting some of the behaviours.
Next nap time I'll catch up with your posts. We're leaving in laws today to head back north. At family gathering yesterday whilst dh at Wembley (go eagles!) I got an array of advice from the women folk including: baby monitors are unnecessarily, going to babies when they cry means they'll end up spoiled, to get them to sleep put them in cot and close the door and forget about them and perhaps most usefully: when the baby is happily occupied on their play mat get on with the house work. I share these pearls with you ladies in the spirit of sharing ;-)

I just wrote a load of stuff, then deleted it to just say hear hear pudtat re: the definition of "thriving". It doesn't just mean growing.

Eco what book is that from? Very interesting! We've been getting lots of drooling and tongue thrusting and hand sucking here too. He's fallen out of love with the dummy, grumps more in the night and has definitely found his hands. I've yet to hear a proper giggle, but I'm sure it's imminent. Seems to fit with your findings!

The baby monitor is one of the best baby products I've ever bought, after the sound and light thingy on the cot and sleeping bags. Ok and baby converse trainers that are still too bloody big. Still, nice to hear such sound parenting advice!

And yes to stormy re: prioritising sleep. I'm lucky, even when dd was ebf she was pretty good at night (shocking in the day!) but now we're mixed she's close to sleeping through at 12 weeks despite being in the lowest centile. However, the nights when she's not been as good have shown me that if she was a rubbish sleeper I would do most things to help, including moving to eff. The more she sleeps at night, the happier she is, the less tired I am, the more I can do with her, the more "playtime" we can have, the less crying she does, the nicer our household is. For me, selfish or not, that's my priority, and if I decided that meant formula, so be it. And also, if I decided to ff for no reason other than I just wanted to, that would be fine too.